The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
Latest Article

The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

It’s no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
More Recent Articles
Contrast Training for Size
By: Lee Boyce
An Interview with Marianne Kane of Girls Gone Strong
By: Jordan Syatt
What Supplements Should I be Taking? By: Jay Wainwright
Bench Like a Girl By: Julia Ladewski
Some Thoughts on Building a Big Pull By: Christopher Mason

Facebook Join Facebook Group       Twitter Follow on Twitter       rss Subscribe via RSS
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 26
  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    1,326

    Agh....lazy/careless about Abdominal workout.

    I don't know...usually people say "**** legs", however I tend to say the same thing about abs. I just think it's a waste of time, unless someone can convince me that this is at least a decent ab workout, It's done two times a week:

    Saxon side bends: 3x8-12
    Hanging Knee raises: 3x8-12 (bodyweight only)
    Flutter Kicks: for ass long as possible....I do about 200-300 kicks, rest...and go for as long as possible.

    So I'm only doing 1 weighed movement for my abs, and 2 which uses only bodyweight. And when I think about movements that use only bodyweight, I think it's worthless. I haven't worked my abs for maybe 4 weeks?


    -Sit-ups I think it's a waste of time because *I need* a decline bench so I can do weighed sit-ups.
    Last edited by SkinnySadMan; 11-22-2005 at 12:40 AM.
    5'7 425 lbs. 85% bodyfat Need to gain 20-40 lbs.

    New journal - http://wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=86957 Boring I know, but whatever.

  2.    Support Wannabebig and use AtLarge Nutrition Supplements!


  3. #2
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    9,916
    I'd screw the side bends, and I do 3-9 weighted sets of 8-12 reps for abs now that I'm bulking. Cutting, I do even less ab work.

    I'd blow off the flutter kicks, too.

    No decline bench necessary - try doing 'em flat with a 10-lb plate on your chest and a rolled up towel under your spine. Go up to about 30 degrees, plant your face on the ceiling, hold, and lower.

    <smirk>

  4. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    1,326
    Well...are direct abdominal work really necessary ? Do squats and deadlifts work them ?
    5'7 425 lbs. 85% bodyfat Need to gain 20-40 lbs.

    New journal - http://wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=86957 Boring I know, but whatever.

  5. #4
    Wrecker of Homes d'Anconia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    5,975
    Some say yes and some say no. I'm more toward the 'no' part of the spectrum but it depends on what you want your abs to be and look like.
    ...........||High School||.....||July '05||.......||January '09||
    Bench.........225x1...............275x1.................?
    Squat...........?.......................?....................365x5
    Deadlift........?.....................315x5...............435x5
    Weight........180...................192...................185
    BF%.............?......................12.....................12
    Time to Get Ripped
    Pictures of Me

  6. #5
    Risk10k Clifford Gillmore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Posts
    5,769
    I find saxon bends do wonders for my obliques. And I love doing decline crunches with a 45, nothing else says fun.

  7. #6
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    7,645
    Quote Originally Posted by SkinnySadMan
    Well...are direct abdominal work really necessary ? Do squats and deadlifts work them ?
    Of course squats and deadlifts work the core. IMHO, they are exercises that demand a strong core, but aren't necessarily the best exercises to develop it.

    If you are already doing squats and deadlifts and abs are your weak link, you won't bring them up by doing only squats and deadlifts. You'll probably need to prioritize them by doing some "isolation" work.

    Keep the saxon side bends. You can do weighted sit-ups and crunches on the floor - you don't need a decline bench. Ab pulldowns are another option. If I were to get rid of one of the exercises you listed, I'd get rid of the flutter kicks.

  8. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    422
    Ever tried weighted decline situps? Hehehhee
    Bulking is living.

    Age:18
    Weight:187 LBS
    Height:5'11
    BF:Somewhere around 13-14%

    Parallel Squat: 220*8
    Deadlift(Sumo): 260*8
    Bench 165*4

    My Journal- "Bulking is Living [By:Rick]"

  9. #8

  10. #9
    eater of food dw06wu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    571
    I've said it before and I'll say it again. Heavy cable crunches and weighted leg raises.
    bests:
    bp 335x1 (unequipped), sq 430x5 belt, dl 475x1 sumo (unequipped)
    ----------------------------
    Cut: Start/250 Current/247
    Abs or bust: my journal
    ollld pics

  11. #10
    Breaker of Skulls Guido's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    40N 88W
    Posts
    11,345
    Quote Originally Posted by RBC13
    Ever tried weighted decline situps? Hehehhee
    :withstupi

    Yeah I usually do decline weighted crunches, situps, or russian twists with a 45lb plate. I also find hanging leg raises are good for really hitting the abs. Also, one-arm bb deads are great for the obliques. I used to use the ab machine but maxed it out and after a while it got to the point where it was useless.
    5'9" 195 lbs
    DL 600x1
    SQ 490x1 (raw)
    BP 430x1 (shirted), 320x1 (raw)
    SN 209x1 C+J 250x1


    My Training Journal
    www.illinipowerlifting.org

    "Most people don't want to learn new things. They only want to hear about things that validate crap they're already doing." - Mike Boyle

  12. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    1,326
    Quote Originally Posted by andru0617
    2) On a flat bench, while laying down, lift your body upward until you're completely vertical on your shoulders. Now, keeping your body completely straight (no bending at the waist!) slowly lower your torso back down. The only part of your body that should touch the bench is your shoulders; don't allow your waist to bend! this exercise is seen in "rocky IV"
    Dragon Flags? I'm too weak to do them. I strained my neck and felt weird strain on my back to, must be my positioning.
    5'7 425 lbs. 85% bodyfat Need to gain 20-40 lbs.

    New journal - http://wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=86957 Boring I know, but whatever.

  13. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    288
    Quote Originally Posted by Guido
    :withstupi

    Yeah I usually do decline weighted crunches, situps, or russian twists with a 45lb plate. I also find hanging leg raises are good for really hitting the abs. Also, one-arm bb deads are great for the obliques. I used to use the ab machine but maxed it out and after a while it got to the point where it was useless.
    I always feel like hanging leg raises exhaust my hip flexors before my abs. Anyone have any advice?

  14. #13
    Senior Member Ricochet_kid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    ottawa, ontario, canada
    Posts
    143
    Quote Originally Posted by Guido
    :withstupi

    Yeah I usually do decline weighted crunches, situps, or russian twists with a 45lb plate. I also find hanging leg raises are good for really hitting the abs. Also, one-arm bb deads are great for the obliques. I used to use the ab machine but maxed it out and after a while it got to the point where it was useless.
    Just a side note, I noticed a few months ago that using a dumbell instead of a plate as weight during decline situps works much better because it interferes less with the movement.

    I hold the dumbell against my chest (dumbell positioned horizontally). With my arms kind of crossed. It also keeps the weight further away from your hips which I think makes the exercise a little harder. Plus if you use DB's you can increase the weight much more than the 45lb plate without having to worry about holding more than one plate.

    This is just my preference, but I thought I'd mention it. I've had the most success with Abs going heavy.


    .

  15. #14
    sissy Bohizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Oakville, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,137
    Quote Originally Posted by Ricochet_kid
    Just a side note, I noticed a few months ago that using a dumbell instead of a plate as weight during decline situps works much better because it interferes less with the movement.

    I hold the dumbell against my chest (dumbell positioned horizontally). With my arms kind of crossed. It also keeps the weight further away from your hips which I think makes the exercise a little harder. Plus if you use DB's you can increase the weight much more than the 45lb plate without having to worry about holding more than one plate.

    This is just my preference, but I thought I'd mention it. I've had the most success with Abs going heavy.


    .
    try holding the plate with ur arms extended above ur head (in line with ur torso).

    Andrew
    Do what needs to be done.

    Every time I was in the hole I swear a turd kissed my underwear. - Hatred
    I love snatch. I think I'm addicted to it. - Stray
    I like a woman I can climb - Jinkies
    Personally ... I'm a vagitarian - Brawl
    I don't box, but I'll have a dance off with any of you tools. When I get all my 230 lbs shaking and grooving you bet your a$$es you'll get served. - BilltheButcher

  16. #15
    Grammar Nazi BG5150's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    3,979
    Quote Originally Posted by Bohizzle
    try holding the plate with ur arms extended above ur head (in line with ur torso).
    That sounds like it would tax the shoulders too much. Plus, holding the weight so far away from the abs extends the moment arm, thus there is less force needed for the abs to move the weight.

    o1---W

    o2----------W

    The force to move weight around the pivot o1 is greater than o2. Simple physics.
    There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left.
    Are you eating while you are reading this? You should be... --hrdgain81
    Remember, kids, if you type well the Grammar Fairy will leave a quarter under your pillow. The Blue Book of Grammar and Punctuation

    Well, the Blog's (finally) back (again!): Love and Hope and Sex and Dreams Feel free to stop by and comment.
    Here is my newly-created World of Warcraft Blog: BG's WoW Blog. Once again, feel free to stop by and comment.

  17. #16
    Toughest Man in the World Bruise Brubaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    In the gym, Québec
    Posts
    952
    Quote Originally Posted by BG5150
    That sounds like it would tax the shoulders too much. Plus, holding the weight so far away from the abs extends the moment arm, thus there is less force needed for the abs to move the weight.

    o1---W

    o2----------W

    The force to move weight around the pivot o1 is greater than o2. Simple physics.
    Huh. Try it and come back! Go back to your physic books


    Anyway the Rocky IV exercise is the best. If Rocky does it, I do it. Then again, what Mr.T does, I do. I get so confused when watching Rocky III.

  18. #17
    sissy Bohizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Oakville, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,137
    Quote Originally Posted by BG5150
    That sounds like it would tax the shoulders too much. Plus, holding the weight so far away from the abs extends the moment arm, thus there is less force needed for the abs to move the weight.

    o1---W

    o2----------W

    The force to move weight around the pivot o1 is greater than o2. Simple physics.
    i haven't taken physics since last year, and i wasn't very good at it, but i know that the farther something is held from the axis of rotation, the more force is needed to move it.

    Andrew
    Do what needs to be done.

    Every time I was in the hole I swear a turd kissed my underwear. - Hatred
    I love snatch. I think I'm addicted to it. - Stray
    I like a woman I can climb - Jinkies
    Personally ... I'm a vagitarian - Brawl
    I don't box, but I'll have a dance off with any of you tools. When I get all my 230 lbs shaking and grooving you bet your a$$es you'll get served. - BilltheButcher

  19. #18
    sissy Bohizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Oakville, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,137
    Quote Originally Posted by Bruise Brubaker
    Huh. Try it and come back! Go back to your physic books


    Anyway the Rocky IV exercise is the best. If Rocky does it, I do it. Then again, what Mr.T does, I do. I get so confused when watching Rocky III.
    LMAO
    Do what needs to be done.

    Every time I was in the hole I swear a turd kissed my underwear. - Hatred
    I love snatch. I think I'm addicted to it. - Stray
    I like a woman I can climb - Jinkies
    Personally ... I'm a vagitarian - Brawl
    I don't box, but I'll have a dance off with any of you tools. When I get all my 230 lbs shaking and grooving you bet your a$$es you'll get served. - BilltheButcher

  20. #19
    Wrecker of Homes d'Anconia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    5,975
    Quote Originally Posted by Bohizzle
    i haven't taken physics since last year, and i wasn't very good at it, but i know that the farther something is held from the axis of rotation, the more force is needed to move it.
    Is anyone else finding this argument really confusing? I swear both sides are right for some reason.

    On one hand I've been told that when moving something about the pivot it is easier to push/pull as far away from the pivot as possible (think of someone using a lever to move a rock). But then again we all know that if you were to try weighted crunches with the plate in your lap vs. over your head... the latter would be more difficult.

    Kinda strange. I think since gravity is involved, it counts as a force pushing all along the lever and in this cause maybe the longer the lever, the more torque it creates? I don't know.
    ...........||High School||.....||July '05||.......||January '09||
    Bench.........225x1...............275x1.................?
    Squat...........?.......................?....................365x5
    Deadlift........?.....................315x5...............435x5
    Weight........180...................192...................185
    BF%.............?......................12.....................12
    Time to Get Ripped
    Pictures of Me

  21. #20
    Senior Member khari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    359
    Quote Originally Posted by BG5150
    That sounds like it would tax the shoulders too much. Plus, holding the weight so far away from the abs extends the moment arm, thus there is less force needed for the abs to move the weight.

    o1---W

    o2----------W

    The force to move weight around the pivot o1 is greater than o2. Simple physics.

    There is more force needed in the second one, because the weight travels a greater distance. No fancy physics needed.

  22. #21
    Wrecker of Homes d'Anconia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    5,975
    ^ Distance travelled doesn't factor into force, it does figure into work however. Anyway the 1st one does take more force to move, go to a door and push near the handle, now push really close to the pivot/hinges. First way is easier to move the door.
    ...........||High School||.....||July '05||.......||January '09||
    Bench.........225x1...............275x1.................?
    Squat...........?.......................?....................365x5
    Deadlift........?.....................315x5...............435x5
    Weight........180...................192...................185
    BF%.............?......................12.....................12
    Time to Get Ripped
    Pictures of Me

  23. #22
    Senior Member Ricochet_kid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    ottawa, ontario, canada
    Posts
    143
    Quote Originally Posted by Bohizzle
    try holding the plate with ur arms extended above ur head (in line with ur torso).

    Andrew
    As interesting as the physics may be. I think I still prefer the exercise with the dumbell on my chest. If it's not heavy enough then get a heavier dumbell instead of trying to add resistance by sticking your arms up over your head.

    I'll have to try that way out again, just to see though. I haven't done those in years. (arms over head) When I did do them that was when I thought high reps and less resistance would be better for my abs. I've since learned, and would approach them differently now.

    I suppose like many things it probably boils down to preference.

  24. #23
    B+D+S = 1 Massive Mofo
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Savannah, GA
    Posts
    408
    If you're doing any type of ab workout on a routine basis then thats great. Some exercises may work better for one person to another, what works for you then keep it. If its not then change it up.
    Past (4Jul05) | Present (22Nov05)
    Weight - 205 | 217
    BF - 26% | 22%
    Max Bench - 230| 295
    Max Dead - 240 | 275
    Max Squat - 240 | 315
    Total: [710] | [885]

  25. #24
    Senior Member dissipate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    2,437
    2) On a flat bench, while laying down, lift your body upward until you're completely vertical on your shoulders. Now, keeping your body completely straight (no bending at the waist!) slowly lower your torso back down. The only part of your body that should touch the bench is your shoulders; don't allow your waist to bend! this exercise is seen in "rocky IV"
    this one can strain the neck a lot so be very careful when doing it.

    Anyway the Rocky IV exercise is the best. If Rocky does it, I do it. Then again, what Mr.T does, I do. I get so confused when watching Rocky III.
    um that's TV.... if rocky ate lard, ice cream, pizzas, fast food, would you?

  26. #25
    Senior Member fat2fit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    64
    the physics is simple, its about torque not force. 45lbs at 1ft away from the pivot is 45ftlbs, and at 2ft its 90ftlbs, so holding it further away (over your head) would mean you would have to work harder. Hence why doing situps with hands on your head is harder than hands on your chest.
    The main problem I can see with holding a plate above your head however is that if it slips from your grip your going to catch it with your skull.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •