The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    considering lipo Skinny Fat's Avatar
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    The squat movement

    Hi guys,

    I know at this point, most of you guys have the move down to muscle memory and you don't have to think about it, but I'm fairly new (3-4 months) to real squats - I used to be the guy with too much weight on the bar going 3/8 of the way down. I've read things like 'sit back and down' and 'don't bounce at the bottom', and I'm trying really, really hard not to learn any bad habits at this point. I've got a real light load, and I've found the position I'm most comfortable with (about an inch outside the shoulders with my feet), and I'm going ATF on every one, but still, my back-hips-knees-ankles aren't moving in rhythm with one another. Can you describe the whole movement for me, the way you do it? What fires first, how far back or down everything goes, and what it's like when you start bringing it back up?

    Also, when I get tired/unfocused on that last rep of the last set, invariably I end up with my knees extended at the top before I pull my back up, and I'm basically doing a GM at the end. I'm not doing enough to hurt myself yet, but I really need to work on that. Thanks for any advice y'all can give me.

    Don't ask for a lighter load. Ask for a stronger back.


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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Built
    This article really helped me with my squats ... http://www.elitefts.com/documents/causal_friday.htm
    Read that. 3times.

  4. #3
    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muscleup
    Read that. 3times.
    Ignore that 5 times.

    Suited squat technique is a different movement. Powerlifting squats are a different movement. Box squatting is a different movement.

    You cannot go ATF with these movements. Indeed, they are intended to maximize strength and leverage for a motion that stops near parallel.

    ATF squatting requires a much closer foot position to the body, like just outside the shoulders (as the original poster described). Find some videos of olympic squatting and watch how they squat down. Do that!

    The journal / I live here.

    If I were to start from scratch as a young 13 year old again, I would do every press, squat, and perhaps deadlifts, for my entire career with chains. -- Dan John

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by MixmasterNash
    Ignore that 5 times.
    There is a Stance section since you decided to bring up stance.
    Here are some quotes:
    "To maximize your hips AND your legs, your stance needs to be adjusted accordingly. A wide stance is usually defined as being slightly wider than shoulder width or wider. The key is that your stance needs to be wide enough so that you can sit back into a squat but not so wide that you canít bring your quads into a squat."

    Can you go ATF with the stance described there ^
    Can you provide better articles on squating or some olympic videos, so we know what you are talking about?

    The oper asked for help on squats, that article origanally posted by Built helped my squat, and evidently hers, so I thought I'd pass it on.

  6. #5
    Banned spencerjrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MixmasterNash
    Ignore that 5 times.

    Suited squat technique is a different movement. Powerlifting squats are a different movement. Box squatting is a different movement.

    You cannot go ATF with these movements. Indeed, they are intended to maximize strength and leverage for a motion that stops near parallel.

    ATF squatting requires a much closer foot position to the body, like just outside the shoulders (as the original poster described). Find some videos of olympic squatting and watch how they squat down. Do that!


    I gotta agree with this, I have tried to model my squatting after the olympic style and it has helped me tremendously. Powerlifting style is pretty different, and isnt what most people on these boards are looking for.

  7. #6
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skinny Fat
    Hi guys,
    I've read things like 'sit back and down' and 'don't bounce at the bottom', and I'm trying really, really hard not to learn any bad habits at this point. I've got a real light load, and I've found the position I'm most comfortable with (about an inch outside the shoulders with my feet), and I'm going ATF on every one, but still, my back-hips-knees-ankles aren't moving in rhythm with one another. Can you describe the whole movement for me, the way you do it? What fires first, how far back or down everything goes, and what it's like when you start bringing it back up?
    There's a lot to say, but concentrate on keeping your head back, your upper back flexed w. your chest out, and abs tight throughout the movement.

    Also, when I get tired/unfocused on that last rep of the last set, invariably I end up with my knees extended at the top before I pull my back up, and I'm basically doing a GM at the end. I'm not doing enough to hurt myself yet, but I really need to work on that. Thanks for any advice y'all can give me.
    If your hips rise faster out of the hole than your head/upper body, you're going to end up GMing it. Really focus on driving your head up/back out of the bottom of your squat. A lot of times this is a focus issue, but sometimes it can mean a weakness in your legs or your core not being strong enough to maintain the isometric contraction.

    Here are some more squat articles (I don't think Jim Wendler's article linked above is in it): http://johnnymnemonic.proboards44.co...ead=1118016070

  8. #7
    Senior Member khari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muscleup
    There is a Stance section since you decided to bring up stance.
    Here are some quotes:
    "To maximize your hips AND your legs, your stance needs to be adjusted accordingly. A wide stance is usually defined as being slightly wider than shoulder width or wider. The key is that your stance needs to be wide enough so that you can sit back into a squat but not so wide that you canít bring your quads into a squat."

    Can you go ATF with the stance described there ^
    Can you provide better articles on squating or some olympic videos, so we know what you are talking about?

    The oper asked for help on squats, that article origanally posted by Built helped my squat, and evidently hers, so I thought I'd pass it on.
    You don't sit back into an Olympic squat, but down. This caused me a few problems when I first started lifting, because everyone had always told me to sit back and to not let your knees cross your toes. I think front squats are a good way to teach this, as you have no choice but to sit down or you will lose the lift.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #8
    Senior Member DNL's Avatar
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    In the past, i have found that by dropping the poundage and do 20-rep squats and really focus on each rep really help when you're going heavy. so you might want to give it a try. and when you're doing 20-rep squat, you can adjust your footing to where you are most comfortable and balance.

  10. #9
    Mint
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    Quote Originally Posted by MixmasterNash
    Find some videos of olympic squatting and watch how they squat down. Do that!
    Watching videos is very helpful. There's even been studies done on this!

    Check out the PL/Oly forum and search for Tournefier and Charakov. Tournefier particullarly has excellent form.
    "To make a big training like Dimas, you can not be a pussy." - Christos Iakovou

    prepare yourself, because it's a big training

    Turnin nothin into somethin, is God work
    And you get nothin without struggle and hard work

    Think like a man of action, act like a man of thought. - Henri Bergson.

  11. #10
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
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    The thing that did it for me for squats was good mornings. Once I understood that connection, my form improved, and consequently, the weight I've been able to push.

  12. #11
    Senior Member SteveEU's Avatar
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    It's been said allready, but I've found that front squats teach you better form...if you lean forward, you'll drop the bar...I would deffo recomend giving them a try,
    My Signature is built by Sonor...Greatest drums in the world.
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  13. #12
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    So down and back = PL squat form?
    And
    Straight down = Oly form?
    now i'm second gussing my form all together.

  14. #13
    Senior Member khari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muscleup
    So down and back = PL squat form?
    And
    Straight down = Oly form?
    now i'm second gussing my form all together.
    Describe to me your squat form.

  15. #14
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    My stance is a little wider than shoulder width. Toes slightly pointed out. (direction my knees go)
    My bar placement is mainly on my traps not touching my neck at all.
    I try to break at the hips first on my decent, so my but kinda starts backward, then I break at the knees and go down into the hole. I am below parallell at the very bottom.

    I don't lean forward or have any issues with being on my toes coming out of the hole.
    I lead with my head on the way up, as if I was doing a regular DL. Concentrating on pushing with my heals and staying center.
    Depending on my rep range, I sometimes push my elbows forward so I don't round my back on the concentric movement.

    On a side note, I did Fronts today, and beside the fact that I went really realy light, I never felt like I was going to fall forward or have the bar roll out of my grip. I watched Maki's video on his site when he did the over 300lb front, and even tho he only did 1 rep, I tried to use his exact form, hand placement, elbows, everything. My stance may have been a tad wider so I could get below || though.

  16. #15
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muscleup
    So down and back = PL squat form?
    And
    Straight down = Oly form?
    now i'm second gussing my form all together.
    ...and this is why I jumped on you for being so quick to judge the guy's form in the video clip.

    There is no "straight down" - you should always start the squat by breaking at the hips, not knees. Powerlifters, especially equipped PLers, will sit back more to activate the glutes/hams more and take advantage of their equipment.

  17. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei
    ...and this is why I jumped on you for being so quick to judge the guy's form in the video clip.
    I know, sorry about that...

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