The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

It’s no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. #1
    Wannabebig Member
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    My proposed new routine - opinions please

    ok, as per my first post I have taken in all your suggestions and feel i want to steer away from the seperate body part routines and go for something a little more advanced.

    how does this sound? (thanks to rbtrout and hill in particular)

    Monday
    squats - heavy
    bench (flat) heavy/Dumbell press heavy
    bent over rowing bb or db (bent over to 90 degrees)

    Tuesday

    ‘Add an inch to your arms’ (http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/sisco8.htm)

    Wednesday
    deadlifts heavy
    standing military press heavy
    wide grip pull ups

    Thursday

    OFF

    Friday
    Power cleans heavy
    Incline db press
    bentover rowing bb or db

    Saturday

    OFF

    Sunday

    OFF



    two things:

    i have never done power cleans. Are thy easy to learn as I will often be training on my own. Also the second set of bentover rows on friday - are these also 90 degrees, the same as Monday?


    any opinions on this routine would be much appreciated before i begin it in the new year - also please comment on the arms routine - does it sound effective or not?


    cheers

    Luke

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  3. #2
    Bodybuilding Mythbuster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke_England
    ok, as per my first post I have taken in all your suggestions and feel i want to steer away from the seperate body part routines and go for something a little more advanced.

    how does this sound? (thanks to rbtrout and hill in particular)

    Monday
    squats - heavy
    bench (flat) heavy/Dumbell press heavy
    bent over rowing bb or db (bent over to 90 degrees)

    Tuesday

    ‘Add an inch to your arms’ (http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/sisco8.htm)

    Wednesday
    deadlifts heavy
    standing military press heavy
    wide grip pull ups

    Thursday

    OFF

    Friday
    Power cleans heavy
    Incline db press
    bentover rowing bb or db

    Saturday

    OFF

    Sunday

    OFF



    two things:

    i have never done power cleans. Are thy easy to learn as I will often be training on my own. Also the second set of bentover rows on friday - are these also 90 degrees, the same as Monday?


    any opinions on this routine would be much appreciated before i begin it in the new year - also please comment on the arms routine - does it sound effective or not?


    cheers

    Luke
    I wouldn't do squats and bench AND bent rows all in the same workout. You are working the biggest muscle groups (chest, back and legs) all together and for most people that would be overkill. Usually that's a no-no.
    Also don't do wide grip chins. Those are hard on the shoulder joints. A wide grip does NOT make wide lats--that's just a myth.

    Put the bench on Friday, put the bentover rows on Wednesday. Any reason in particular you are doing bent-overs twice a week? It won't make you grow any faster and could be counter-productive.

    The arms routine does not sound that great. I'd follow Chris Mason's recomendations for how to add one inch to your arms. There are people on this site who've had success with that.

  4. #3
    The Flyfisher rbtrout's Avatar
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    I would and I do all of those on one day. It's a variation of Bill Starr's strength routine. Doing a routine like this will knock your d**k in the dirt. You'll be wasted at the end, but stick with it and you'll build some killer size and strength.
    As far as bent over rows, yes, all are done at 90 degrees.
    For the power cleans, there are several websites that show how to do them. Sorry, I don't have any of those sites right now, but I did a Google search and looked at several short vids and several pics on how to do them.
    I'd suggest doing this routine for about 12 weeks and then taking a week (at least) either off or doing light, high rep exercises.
    For the arms, I do about 12 sets of tris a week and maybe 4 sets of bis a week. I put an inch on my arms in the last 2 months doing this routine.
    Good luck and keep us posted.
    Last edited by rbtrout; 12-29-2005 at 08:40 AM.
    Give chalk a chance.


    49 years old

    665 squat
    700 deadlift
    325 bench

  5. #4
    Senior Member Meat_Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExtremeAnabolic
    I wouldn't do squats and bench AND bent rows all in the same workout. You are working the biggest muscle groups (chest, back and legs) all together and for most people that would be overkill. Usually that's a no-no.
    You're saying there's something wrong with working the biggest muscle groups in one workout? How do you deadlift then? What about push presses, or olympic lifting? I guess squats and rows are out too then! Your body is made to work as a unit, not individual muscle groups. It makes sense to train it in the same way... Besides, full body routines similar to that one have been used since the beginning of bodybuilding/strength sports with tons of success.

    Put the bench on Friday, put the bentover rows on Wednesday. Any reason in particular you are doing bent-overs twice a week? It won't make you grow any faster and could be counter-productive.
    What would be the point of moving bench to Friday and bent over rows to Wednesday? They're fine where they are. And doing the same exercise twice per week is NOT counter productive, and is likely alot more productive in terms of strength gains for that particular exercise(and size gains for the muscles used).

    The arms routine does not sound that great. I'd follow Chris Mason's recomendations for how to add one inch to your arms. There are people on this site who've had success with that.
    I agree, really with a routine like that there's no point in doing any direct arm work.

    Luke you might want to switch the deadlifts and powercleans. Doing heavy deadlifts 48 hours after heavy squats is pretty tough on the posterior chain, a lighter exercise like powercleans would give your PC more time to recover before another heavy workout on friday.
    Last edited by Meat_Head; 12-29-2005 at 01:01 PM.
    Squat...Eat...Sleep...Grow...Repeat

  6. #5
    Bodybuilding Mythbuster
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    Quote Originally Posted by xMeat_Headx
    (1)You're saying there's something wrong with working the biggest muscle groups in one workout? How do you deadlift then? What about push presses, or olympic lifting? I guess squats and rows are out too then! Your body is made to work as a unit, not individual muscle groups. It makes sense to train it in the same way... Besides, full body routines similar to that one have been used since the beginning of bodybuilding/strength sports with tons of success.



    (2) What would be the point of moving bench to Friday and bent over rows to Wednesday? They're fine where they are. And doing the same exercise twice per week is NOT counter productive, and is likely alot more productive in terms of strength gains for that particular exercise(and size gains for the muscles used).



    (3) I agree, really with a routine like that there's no point in doing any direct arm work.

    Luke you might want to switch the deadlifts and powercleans. Doing heavy deadlifts 48 hours after heavy squats is pretty tough on the posterior chain, a lighter exercise like powercleans would give your PC more time to recover before another heavy workout on friday.

    Here we go again tuttut


    1. I give deadlifts their own day. I never said there was a problem with working the biggest muscle groups in one workout. I said there was a problem with working ALL the biggest muscle groups in the same workout (chest legs and back. If you are going to respond to my posts the least you could do is make the attempt to read what was written and then respond accordingly.

    2. The point is that similar exercises are grouped together. Doing the same exercise twice per week can lead to overtraining/greater fatigue in the muscle given the other exercises. And I never said it WAS counter-productive, only that it COULD be. How do you know it will not be? You can't make an absolute statement like "And doing the same exercise twice per week is NOT counter-productive" because for some people (on top of all the other exercises they are doing) it might very well be. For me doing deadlifts twice a week would definitely be counter-productive. Or squats for that matter.

    3. We agree on something?
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 12-30-2005 at 01:55 AM.

  7. #6
    Bodybuilding Mythbuster
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    Quote Originally Posted by xMeat_Headx
    You're saying there's something wrong with working the biggest muscle groups in one workout? How do you deadlift then? What about push presses, or olympic lifting? I guess squats and rows are out too then! Your body is made to work as a unit, not individual muscle groups. It makes sense to train it in the same way... Besides, full body routines similar to that one have been used since the beginning of bodybuilding/strength sports with tons of success.



    .
    Would you deadlift, squat and bench all on the same day in the same workout then? Seeing as how you are advocating a full body routine....
    Do you even do one?

  8. #7
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    Anyway I don't want to hijack this thread, so my suggestions to the OP. Do the workout the way Mr. rbtrout set it up. If however after trying that, you feel that it is 'too much' you might want to try it the way I suggested.
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 12-30-2005 at 04:16 AM.

  9. #8
    In China tigo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExtremeAnabolic
    Would you deadlift, squat and bench all on the same day in the same workout then? Seeing as how you are advocating a full body routine....
    Do you even do one?
    actaully i have done that before
    its not TOO bad...
    just you can't really move the day after.
    at all.
    I don't have time. I make time.

  10. #9
    The Flyfisher rbtrout's Avatar
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    Like I said, it has worked for me (and many others). Again, it will beat the crap out of you, but if you start lighter and work your way up each week, your body will get used to the load (as long as you're not doing too much on Tues, Thurs). I set all my personal best lifts using this routine.
    Give chalk a chance.


    49 years old

    665 squat
    700 deadlift
    325 bench

  11. #10
    Senior Member Meat_Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExtremeAnabolic
    1. I give deadlifts their own day. I never said there was a problem with working the biggest muscle groups in one workout. I said there was a problem with working ALL the biggest muscle groups in the same workout (chest legs and back. If you are going to respond to my posts the least you could do is make the attempt to read what was written and then respond accordingly.
    What you said was wrong either way!

    "You are working the biggest muscle groups (chest, back and legs) all together and for most people that would be overkill."

    There are a ton of exercises in the gym that DO work pushing, pulling, and leg muscles at the same time. Those happen to be the most effective exercises. And there's nothing wrong with working all of those muscles in the same workout, even if you did an exercise specifically for each of those 3 major muscle groups. Its been done for a long time with alot of success, that's my point.

    2. The point is that similar exercises are grouped together. Doing the same exercise twice per week can lead to overtraining/greater fatigue in the muscle given the other exercises. And I never said it WAS counter-productive, only that it COULD be. How do you know it will not be? You can't make an absolute statement like "And doing the same exercise twice per week is NOT counter-productive" because for some people (on top of all the other exercises they are doing) it might very well be. For me doing deadlifts twice a week would definitely be counter-productive. Or squats for that matter.
    It won't be counter productive if its done properly. No doubt, if you do 8 sets of rows and then 6 sets 2 or 3 days later, you'll end up overtraining after a few weeks. That's not the case here though, I think that routine would be fine as far as recovery goes.

    About the last part there... I can guarantee you without a doubt that you could do deadlifts or squats twice a week or more effectively and productively. Would you likely have to adjust your sets and reps? Sure, but your body is more adaptable than you think!

    Nothin personal Anabolic
    Squat...Eat...Sleep...Grow...Repeat

  12. #11
    Bodybuilding Mythbuster
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    Quote Originally Posted by xMeat_Headx
    What you said was wrong either way!

    "You are working the biggest muscle groups (chest, back and legs) all together and for most people that would be overkill."

    (1)There are a ton of exercises in the gym that DO work pushing, pulling, and leg muscles at the same time. Those happen to be the most effective exercises. And there's nothing wrong with working all of those muscles in the same workout, even if you did an exercise specifically for each of those 3 major muscle groups. (2) Its been done for a long time with alot of success, that's my point.



    It won't be counter productive if its done properly. No doubt, if you do 8 sets of rows and then 6 sets 2 or 3 days later, you'll end up overtraining after a few weeks. That's not the case here though, I think that routine would be fine as far as recovery goes.

    (3)About the last part there... I can guarantee you without a doubt that you could do deadlifts or squats twice a week or more effectively and productively. Would you likely have to adjust your sets and reps? Sure, but your body is more adaptable than you think!

    Nothin personal Anabolic

    1. Which exercises are these? Certainly not "a ton" Deadlifts are primarily legs and back. Not much chest work there. And the same for squats. As for any Olympic lifts not too many bodybuilders do them.

    2. Full body routines are not done much now. There's a reason for that.

    3. You don't even know me or how I train. I train the deadlift for strength. Twice a week, even with the same volume as once a week (but spread out over two days) doesn't work. I know, I've tried it. Maxing out twice a week is too hard on the joints.

  13. #12
    Senior Member Meat_Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExtremeAnabolic
    1. Which exercises are these? Certainly not "a ton" Deadlifts are primarily legs and back. Not much chest work there. And the same for squats. As for any Olympic lifts not too many bodybuilders do them.
    Deadlifts work EVERYTHING! Same with squats. And the bodybuilders who train in hammer-each-muscle-one-day-a-week split routines as well as the bodybuilders who never use olympic lifts(which spans a range of exercises far beyond clean&jerks/snatches) are hindering their success in both size and strength, as they usually go hand in hand. Like I've said, your body isn't made to move as body parts, its made to move as a fluid unit. Therefore it makes sense to train it that way.

    2. Full body routines are not done much now. There's a reason for that.
    IGNANT!

    Don't make me barrage you with link after link of great full body routines used pretty damn often now with *gasp* results! The great thing is, those methods have been used for over a hundred years, and there's a reason for THAT... Look at fads in the bodybuilding industry. They probably print a couple thousand bicep and ab routines a year. They have to make up new crap each month to fill pages they know people will buy. I'm not saying split routines don't work at all, or that splitting up workouts by bodyparts is useless. It just needs to be done in the right way for the right reasons.

    3. You don't even know me or how I train. I train the deadlift for strength. Twice a week, even with the same volume as once a week (but spread out over two days) doesn't work. I know, I've tried it. Maxing out twice a week is too hard on the joints.
    "I can guarantee you without a doubt that you could do deadlifts or squats twice a week or more effectively and productively. Would you likely have to adjust your sets and reps? Sure, but your body is more adaptable than you think!"

    Why the hell would you max out twice a week? Have you heard of alternating rep/set ranges?
    Squat...Eat...Sleep...Grow...Repeat

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by xMeat_Headx
    (1)Deadlifts work EVERYTHING! Same with squats. And the bodybuilders who train in hammer-each-muscle-one-day-a-week split routines as well as the bodybuilders who never use olympic lifts(which spans a range of exercises far beyond clean&jerks/snatches) are hindering their success in both size and strength, as they usually go hand in hand. Like I've said, your body isn't made to move as body parts, its made to move as a fluid unit. Therefore it makes sense to train it that way.



    IGNANT!

    (2) Don't make me barrage you with link after link of great full body routines used pretty damn often now with *gasp* results! The great thing is, those methods have been used for over a hundred years, and there's a reason for THAT... Look at fads in the bodybuilding industry. They probably print a couple thousand bicep and ab routines a year. They have to make up new crap each month to fill pages they know people will buy. I'm not saying split routines don't work at all, or that splitting up workouts by bodyparts is useless. It just needs to be done in the right way for the right reasons.



    "I can guarantee you without a doubt that you could do deadlifts or squats twice a week or more effectively and productively. Would you likely have to adjust your sets and reps? Sure, but your body is more adaptable than you think!"

    (3)Why the hell would you max out twice a week? Have you heard of alternating rep/set ranges?

    (numbers are mine)

    Let's not hijack this thread and turn it into some kind of contest
    That said I just have to respond to a few points here

    1. If deadlifts and squats worked everything,then there would be no need for other exercises. You will not get a big chest by only deads and squats

    2. More people on these forums use split body routines as opposed to full body routines. Split routines are more common than full body routines. That's what I was saying. Go look at the journals and see the ratio of split routines to full body routines. And guess what? Some of the most knowledgable and experienced people here use split routines.

    3. I train the deadlift purely for strength. That's precisely WHY I DON'T max out twice a week.

    If you wish to debate this further, please take it to PM as I shall not be visiting this thread again. The mods tend to look askance at hijacked threads. Thank you.

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