The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

It’s no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #26
    I wannabebig!
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    not as legendary as mine

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  3. #28
    Proud Father Maki Riddington's Avatar
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    In the end, if eating in the AM is uncomfortable and your workouts are in the evening anyway, you might as well take advantage of the timing and eat more food later in the day.
    You could but you're overlooking the fact that eating in the morning can help deal with cravings in the evening time and that the body is receptive to carbs in the AM.

    The bottom line is that if you can't stomach breakfast you still should not skip it. Eat some carbs and protein and keep the fat to a minimum.



    With all due respect, Maki, I don't think you've ever been significantly overweight, correct? I've been overweight and have had to deal with metabolic conditions that pushed my appetite out of control. Ultimately, if you can NOT control your hunger, you won't be able to stick to a plan.
    Then for you this may be the solution, but you can't correct someone based on your experience with yourself.



    But I've heard many people tell me that the are NOT hungry in the AM, and they ARE later in the day. If you're getting in your allotted calories, in the end, WHEN during the day you get them in isn't going to matter nearly as much as the fact that you're not over (or under) eating.
    It's not always about calories at the end of the day. If you're dealing with someone who has problems with glucose intolerance then meal timing will make a difference. You can not ignore the fact that some body's partition food better then others.
    Maki Fit Blog

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    My articles on Wannabebig

    "Soli Deo Gloria"
    "Test all things; hold fast what is good.": 1 Thessalonians 5:21

    "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
    So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
    Romans 7:14-25

    "Judo is not about strength. Yet in the learning curve, all Judokas get strong. Only with time do you learn where to apply that strength."
    The Art of Judo

  4. #29
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maki Riddington
    You could but you're overlooking the fact that eating in the morning can help deal with cravings in the evening time and that the body is receptive to carbs in the AM.
    I'm sorry, but I know too many people for whom this is simply NOT TRUE. If I ate ANY carbohydrate in the AM, I could seriously not stop eating ALL DAY unless I trained right after.

    AM for me is strictly protein and fat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maki Riddington

    The bottom line is that if you can't stomach breakfast you still should not skip it. Eat some carbs and protein and keep the fat to a minimum.
    Again, um, no way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maki Riddington
    Then for you this may be the solution, but you can't correct someone based on your experience with yourself.
    How about an entire online community? I mod a board FULL of folks like me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maki Riddington
    It's not always about calories at the end of the day.
    But it mostly is. The rest are small players. Important, but not more important than appetite control.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maki Riddington
    If you're dealing with someone who has problems with glucose intolerance then meal timing will make a difference.
    Bingo. And these are often the folks who have the highest rates of obesity.

    Bottom line - figure out what you're eating for the day, then neither under nor overeat.

  5. #30
    Strength & Protection Kiaran's Avatar
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    Built, what is the web site that you moderate? I'd like to take a look at it.
    32 yo - 5'6" - 170 lbs
    USAPL Meet PRs (Raw @154 lbs): 347 SQ, 242 BP, 507 DL, 1096 TOTAL
    Gym PRs: 370 SQ, 270 BP, 510 DL

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  6. #31

  7. #32
    Sculpted by Science brickt.'s Avatar
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    Could I possibly get that PM also, B? Entirely at your disgression, of course.
    Poo is also LBM - The Built

  8. #33
    Stronglikebull or full of?
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    Excellent thread! Great information, some good debate and Built can I get the PM also. I was wondering what site you were moderating and always meant to ask.

    I have an additional question. When you use the term meal as in 5 meals per day. Is there a minimum requirement that makes it a meal vs say a snack. I usually eat a good breakfast and eat small portions throughout the day. Sometimes 1-2 hours apart. Is this OK?
    "If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything."

    Mark Twain

    "The price of success is hard work, dedication to the job at hand and the determination that whether we win or lose, we have applied the best of ourselves to the task at hand."

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  9. #34
    Iron4Life
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    Sign me up Built please..

  10. #35
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    Re: The myth that frequent meals increase metabolic rate.

    This thread includes some really good clincial studies that show this to be false.

    http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...meal+frequency

  11. #36
    Stronglikebull or full of?
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    If I eat a good breakfast and space light(smart food) snacks/meals out throughout my day and do not exceed my caloric intake and yet meet my minimal requirements on fats/carbs/proteins will my diet still have the same impact as if I were eating three good squares to meet the same goals? JUst wanted to ask.
    "If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything."

    Mark Twain

    "The price of success is hard work, dedication to the job at hand and the determination that whether we win or lose, we have applied the best of ourselves to the task at hand."

    Vince Lombardi

    http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJ...wner=BigOldDad

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigOldDad
    If I eat a good breakfast and space light(smart food) snacks/meals out throughout my day and do not exceed my caloric intake and yet meet my minimal requirements on fats/carbs/proteins will my diet still have the same impact as if I were eating three good squares to meet the same goals? JUst wanted to ask.
    If the calories are equal the results will be equal.

  13. #38
    Lurk and Learn!!!
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    PM please. Thanks in advance.

  14. #39
    Proud Father Maki Riddington's Avatar
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    I'm sorry, but I know too many people for whom this is simply NOT TRUE. If I ate ANY carbohydrate in the AM, I could seriously not stop eating ALL DAY unless I trained right after.

    AM for me is strictly protein and fat.
    More power to you. If that is how you do things great. I'm talking about the bio-availability of nutrients at various times of the day and how it can effect the body.

    Your personal experience can not refute this.



    Again, um, no way.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

    http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/abstract/134/1/104

    Full Study

    http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/134/1/104




    How about an entire online community? I mod a board FULL of folks like me.
    Built, I don't play the "you're right I'm wrong game" anymore. You're using yourself and people's personal experiences to make a point while I am simply saying that there are other approaches that are just as effective. You seem be black and white on a lot of subjects. It's ok to be grey.


    But it mostly is. The rest are small players. Important, but not more important than appetite control.
    I'll quote myself again.

    "If you're dealing with someone who has problems with glucose intolerance then meal timing will make a difference. You can not ignore the fact that some body's partition food better then others."

    Obviously calories are important but sometimes it's other things that are the deciding factor in seeing the results you want.

    Bingo. And these are often the folks who have the highest rates of obesity.
    In my experience it's not. It has to do more with their metabolism and eating habits.

    Bottom line - figure out what you're eating for the day, then neither under nor overeat.
    You could, or you could simply choose the right foods and eat them. Beyond that changes will have to be made down the road as the body responds.
    Last edited by Maki Riddington; 01-17-2006 at 02:12 PM.
    Maki Fit Blog

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    "Soli Deo Gloria"
    "Test all things; hold fast what is good.": 1 Thessalonians 5:21

    "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
    So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
    Romans 7:14-25

    "Judo is not about strength. Yet in the learning curve, all Judokas get strong. Only with time do you learn where to apply that strength."
    The Art of Judo

  15. #40
    Senior Member Manveet's Avatar
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    Manveet's number one tip for losing weight:

    Eat less calories.
    Last edited by Manveet; 01-17-2006 at 02:33 PM.
    "It is often said, mainly by the "no-contests", that although there is no positive evidence for the existence of God, nor is there evidence against his existence. So it is best to keep an open mind and be agnostic. At first sight that seems an unassailable position, at least in the weak sense of Pascal's wager. But on second thought it seems a cop-out, because the same could be said of Father Christmas and tooth fairies. There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can't prove that there aren't any, so shouldn't we be agnostic with respect to fairies?"

    Richard Dawkins


    "Out of all of the sects in the world, we notice an uncanny coincidence: the overwhelming majority just happen to choose the one that their parents belong to. Not the sect that has the best evidence in its favour, the best miracles, the best moral code, the best cathedral, the best stained glass, the best music: when it comes to choosing from the smorgasbord of available religions, their potential virtues seem to count for nothing, compared to the matter of heredity. This is an unmistakable fact; nobody could seriously deny it. Yet people with full knowledge of the arbitrary nature of this heredity, somehow manage to go on believing in their religion, often with such fanaticism that they are prepared to murder people who follow a different one."


    Richard Dawkins


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  16. #41
    Proud Father Maki Riddington's Avatar
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    Duh.
    Maki Fit Blog

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    "Soli Deo Gloria"
    "Test all things; hold fast what is good.": 1 Thessalonians 5:21

    "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
    So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
    Romans 7:14-25

    "Judo is not about strength. Yet in the learning curve, all Judokas get strong. Only with time do you learn where to apply that strength."
    The Art of Judo

  17. #42
    Former Fatass Unreal's Avatar
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    I find that 3 larger meals is normally easier for me to meet my caloric goals while on strict cutting then 5+ smaller meals.
    Nick V

  18. #43
    I wannabebig!
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    its 2 rules

    eat less
    move more

  19. #44
    Proud Father Maki Riddington's Avatar
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    For the people on this board who have a handle on nutrition I'd say yes this will work. For the general population..... good luck.

    It's not that simple, well it is but for some reason it doesn't seem to pan out this way.
    Maki Fit Blog

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    "Soli Deo Gloria"
    "Test all things; hold fast what is good.": 1 Thessalonians 5:21

    "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
    So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
    Romans 7:14-25

    "Judo is not about strength. Yet in the learning curve, all Judokas get strong. Only with time do you learn where to apply that strength."
    The Art of Judo

  20. #45
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
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    Maki

    You and I can both post up studies that refute each other's claims. In the end, though, if you can control your appetite while reducing calories, you're going to succeed. If you cannot, you will ultimately fail.

    I don't think there's too much disagreement between us in this regard.

    The rest comes down to the constrained optimization problem of working in as many metabolism-boosting strategies as one comfortably can.

    I don't disagree with your referenced approaches being optimal - just that they may not always be practicable. If you burn more calories than you expend you will lose weight. If you do this while somehow hanging onto muscle, you'll lose fat.

    That part is the same for everybody.

  21. #46
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncoupling the effects of energy expenditure and energy intake: appetite response to short-term energy deficit induced by meal omission and physical activity
    Hubert P, King NA, Blundell JE.

    Institut National Agronomique, Paris-Grignon.

    The effects of two methods of inducing an acute energy deficit (exercise and a low-energy breakfast) on appetite were investigated in 11 healthy females, all of whom were regular exercisers and regular breakfast eaters. There were four experimental days: with exercise and a high-energy (500 kcal) breakfast (EHB), exercise and a low-energy (64 kcal) breakfast (ELB), no exercise and a high-energy breakfast (NEHB) and no exercise and a low-energy breakfast (NELB). Hunger and moods were monitored each hour from 8 a. m. until 5 p.m. Energy and macronutrient intake were measured during an ad libitum lunch test meal 4 h after the exercise and breakfast. Heart rate was continuously monitored using the Polar sport tester. The low-energy breakfasts (ELB and NELB) led to increased hunger during the morning and an increase in energy intake at lunch compared with the high-energy breakfasts. Subjects also experienced significantly more food cravings after LBs than after HBs. Exercise failed to have any significant effect on these variables. Thus, two methods of inducing a short-term energy deficit had markedly different effects on appetite. The low-energy breakfast presumably fails to generate the inhibitory satiety signals induced by the 500 kcal breakfast, whereas the metabolic effects of an exercise session failed to generate excitatory signals to hunger and food intake. Copyright 1998 Academic Press.

    PMID: 9716432 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
    This one found that for people on uncontrolled-calorie diets who ate breakfast regularly, NOT eating a substantial breakfast made them hungrier - so they overate at lunch. (What a surprise!)

    Still not a problem if they don't overeat for the day. And it didn't consider people who do not regularly eat breakfast.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Time of Day of Food Intake Influences Overall Intake in Humans1
    John M. de Castro2
    Department of Psychology, University of Texas at El Paso, El Paso, TX 79968-05532
    To whom correspondence should be addressed. Present address: Department of Psychology, The University of Texas at El Paso, El Paso, TX 79968-0553. E-mail: [email
    jdecastr@utep.edu[/email]. ]

    Circadian and diurnal rhythms affect food intake, and earlier research has suggested that meal sizes increase, whereas the after-meal intervals and satiety ratios decrease over the day. We hypothesized that the time of day of food intake would be related to total intake such that intake early in the day would tend to reduce overall intake, whereas intake later in the day would tend to increase intake over the entire day. The intakes of 375 male and 492 female free-living individuals, previously obtained via 7-d diet diaries, were reanalyzed. The total and meal intakes of food energy, the amounts of the macronutrients ingested and the density of intake occurring during five 4-h periods (0600–0959, 1000–1359, 1400–1759, 1800–2159 and 2200–0159 h) were identified and related to overall and meal intakes during the entire day. The proportion of intake in the morning was negatively correlated with overall intake (r = -0.13, P < 0.01), whereas the proportion ingested late in the evening was positively correlated with overall intake (r = 0.14, P < 0.01). The energy densities of intake during all periods of the day were positively related to overall intake (range, r = 0.13–0.23, P < 0.01). The results suggest that low energy density intake during any portion of the day can reduce overall intake, that intake in the morning is particularly satiating and can reduce the total amount ingested for the day, and that intake in the late night lacks satiating value and can result in greater overall daily intake.
    This one found that people on uncontrolled-calorie diets who ate less in the AM ate more in the evening.

    It didn't consider athletes who train in the evening.

    Many of us here do.

    Stupid day jobs <mutter, mutter>

    I searched the full article. There is no mention of exercise at all, and it excluded anyone who was actively dieting.

    While these may be interesting observations regarding free-eating populations, they may lack relevance to this particular group here on WBB. Bodybuilders on a cut are just a LITTLE more anal about their diets than lay people who don't deliberately restrict calories.

    Interesting articles.

  22. #47
    Proud Father Maki Riddington's Avatar
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    To keep this discussion on the right path it would be nice if you addressed each of my counter points in my above post so we don't get off track.

    You have only commented on the studies I have posted. I posted some evidence to support my stance that a solid breakfast does the body good. I will never be able to find the perfect study, so we have to make do with the ones that have been conducted and are somewhat applicable. From there we test what we have taken away from the study and see if it there is indeed some truth to the studies.

    I would encourage you to post evidence that says otherwise.

    It seems that your posts come off as being, "it's this way or else you are not going about it in the proper fashion." I strongly disagree with this line of thinking and feel it is somewhat of a close minded approach to training and nutrition.

    I am completely aware that fat loss comes down to calories in vs calories out. However, it how you approach/apply this concept that is also important. For example, if you had three individuals eat all their calories for the day in one sitting at different times (9am, 3pm, 9pm) and then lowered their calories, do you think that it would get them to their goal as effectively as if they looked at the macronutrient profile of each meal, calorie content and the times of day they ate at?
    Maki Fit Blog

    At Large: Optimize Your Body | Dynamic Conditioning |
    My articles on Wannabebig

    "Soli Deo Gloria"
    "Test all things; hold fast what is good.": 1 Thessalonians 5:21

    "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
    So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
    Romans 7:14-25

    "Judo is not about strength. Yet in the learning curve, all Judokas get strong. Only with time do you learn where to apply that strength."
    The Art of Judo

  23. #48
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maki Riddington
    To keep this discussion on the right path it would be nice if you addressed each of my counter points in my above post so we don't get off track.

    You have only commented on the studies I have posted. I posted some evidence to support my stance that a solid breakfast does the body good. I will never be able to find the perfect study, so we have to make do with the ones that have been conducted and are somewhat applicable. From there we test what we have taken away from the study and see if it there is indeed some truth to the studies.

    I would encourage you to post evidence that says otherwise.

    It seems that your posts come off as being, "it's this way or else you are not going about it in the proper fashion." I strongly disagree with this line of thinking and feel it is somewhat of a close minded approach to training and nutrition.
    For the record, I'm a staunch breakfast eater! And I don't think I suggested anything but the observation that while from a physiology-based perspective, one strategy may be optimal over another, it only works if you can tolerate it.

    Broccoli is only good for you if you actually EAT it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Maki
    I am completely aware that fat loss comes down to calories in vs calories out. However, it how you approach/apply this concept that is also important. For example, if you had three individuals eat all their calories for the day in one sitting at different times (9am, 3pm, 9pm) and then lowered their calories, do you think that it would get them to their goal as effectively as if they looked at the macronutrient profile of each meal, calorie content and the times of day they ate at?
    I'm saying the difference (if there is any) would not be worth discomfort if this is what it caused. If you could lock up your subjects and force them to comply, you may find a small advantage. But I'd be surprised if it was much more than that. I'd be more than happy to discover I'm wrong here - I eat pretty clean most of the time. It would give me one more reason to do so.

    Does this make better sense?

  24. #49
    Proud Father Maki Riddington's Avatar
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    ONE BIG EDIT.
    Last edited by Maki Riddington; 01-17-2006 at 08:16 PM.
    Maki Fit Blog

    At Large: Optimize Your Body | Dynamic Conditioning |
    My articles on Wannabebig

    "Soli Deo Gloria"
    "Test all things; hold fast what is good.": 1 Thessalonians 5:21

    "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
    So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
    Romans 7:14-25

    "Judo is not about strength. Yet in the learning curve, all Judokas get strong. Only with time do you learn where to apply that strength."
    The Art of Judo

  25. #50
    I wannabebig!
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