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Thread: upper and lower back strength training

  1. #1
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    upper and lower back strength training

    I am 18 and am currently involved in basketball and would like to know how to strengthing my lower and upper back to prevent injuries. I would appreciate it if you could send me some training tips to help me out. Thank you.

  2. #2
    MA's Bionic Creation syntekz's Avatar
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    deadlifts.


    someone wanna move this to training?

  3. #3
    Bigger fewl
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    Deadlifts ya, but for specifically back I would recommend weighted hyperextensions.
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  4. #4
    eating out millertime's Avatar
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    don't forget squats, squats work the abs and lower back along with the legs.

  5. #5
    Senior Member TreeTrunks's Avatar
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    Make sure you have PERFECT form when doing squats and deadlifts! In high school I messed my back up big time thanks to the wrestling coach that believes more repititions using horrible form is the way to workout.

  6. #6
    Simplistic
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    Deadlifts, rows, weighted pull-ups.

  7. #7
    Moderator Adam's Avatar
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    For strengthing the "core" do abs,obliques and lower back. For obliques you can do side-bends, for abs you can do standing abs or use an ab machine and for lowerback you can do hyper-extension. To hit most of these at once you can do zercher squats, deadlifts, squats, good mornings etc.
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  8. #8
    Bigger fewl
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    I'd just like to mention that the only function of the back in deadlifts, squats, and their variations is stabilization. Hams, glutes, and quads actually move the weight, if you are using good form. When I first started doing these lifts, I found they did hit my back resonably well. But a few months later they no longer did nearly as much. The strength I had gained in my spinal erectors and traps much exceeded the strength gains I was getting in the movers, and stabilization was no longer a significant challenge on my lowerback and traps. Deadlifts and squats are great, but in terms of back development, I would be sure to add some direct erector and trap training. Otherwise it is likely that gains in these muscle groups will stagnate in time do to insignificant progressive overload.

    Best exercises to directly work the spinal erectors and traps are:
    Spine erectors - weighted or non-weighted hyperextensions, backlift(not sure what to call it) which is done lying flat on the ground on stomach with or without a weight on the back of the head, neck, or top of back, in front of neck, head, or held out in front of body, then arching your back as far as you can. It is kind of wierd. Another good one is a suspended deadlift(sldl's best) or gm(any type) held at about the middle of the lift until your spine erectors or traps or both can no longer support the weight. It isn't likely that you will be able to do this unless you have strong movers(hams, glute, quads) to suspend the movement long enough for your spine erectors or traps to fail or be significantly worked.
    Traps - shrugs, any variation of a high pull.
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  9. #9
    MA's Bionic Creation syntekz's Avatar
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    Deadlifts ==


    It might not hit your traps/spinal erectors, DaChickenShowYo, but I think it's safe to say that for the majority of us; it does.

  10. #10
    Moderator Adam's Avatar
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    Deads and squats can directly hit your erectors if your back rounds which with most people it does.
    Best Meet @ Lifts@181:...............Best gym lifts
    Squat...- 403..........................Squat....- 395 w/belt
    Bench...- 303..........................Bench....- 300....Paused in meet - 281
    Deadlift.- 503.....Unofficial 513...Deadlift..- 490
    Total....- 1,203...IPF Class II......All done raw, Touch'n go bench

    "Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly" Robert F. Kennedy

    "A man can fail many times, but he isn't a failure until he gives up"

    "However beautiful the strategy you should occasionally look at the results" John Berardi

    Powerlifting Westside Style

  11. #11
    Bigger fewl
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    With PROPER FORM deadlifts and squats don't hit your spinal erectors DIRECTLY. Go ahead, they will work great for a beginner and intermediate. I just believe that as you advance the stress on those stabilizing muscles will not be very significant in terms of growth and strength stimulation with most people. Maybe I just have a strong lower back and strong traps....
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  12. #12
    MA's Bionic Creation syntekz's Avatar
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    Yes, you are too advanced for us. LOL!!!!

  13. #13
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Originally posted by DaChickenShowYo
    With PROPER FORM deadlifts and squats don't hit your spinal erectors DIRECTLY.
    Tell that to my spinal erectors.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

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  14. #14
    Proud Father Maki Riddington's Avatar
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    Originally posted by DaChickenShowYo
    With PROPER FORM deadlifts and squats don't hit your spinal erectors DIRECTLY. Go ahead, they will work great for a beginner and intermediate. I just believe that as you advance the stress on those stabilizing muscles will not be very significant in terms of growth and strength stimulation with most people.
    *** Based on your personal experience you're making a blanket statement?

    If you're talking about the errectors being a prime mover in the exercise you would need to analyze the biomechanics of the lift. At different points of the lift the prime movers will switch from one muscle to another. The back will isometrically contract more at certain times of the lift depending on the load and the current status of the muscle. If your back is isometrically contracting against a 400 pound load you better believe they'll be stimulated!
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  15. #15
    Proud Father Maki Riddington's Avatar
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    Originally posted by DaChickenShowYo
    weighted or non-weighted hyperextensions, backlift(not sure what to call it) which is done lying flat on the ground on stomach with or without a weight on the back of the head, neck, or top of back, in front of neck, head, or held out in front of body, then arching your back as far as you can. It is kind of wierd
    *** This is a movement I see being done all the time. It makes me wonder why people even bother with it. It is not even a full ROM movement so I couldn't see it being on the top of the list.
    Any movement that doesn't take a muscle through it's natural ROM is not a superior exercise.
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    "Soli Deo Gloria"
    "Test all things; hold fast what is good.": 1 Thessalonians 5:21

    "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
    So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
    Romans 7:14-25

    "Judo is not about strength. Yet in the learning curve, all Judokas get strong. Only with time do you learn where to apply that strength."
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  16. #16
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    Try...

    http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html

    Look under waist and back for various exercises to target your lower and upper back respectively.

    It appears Deadlifts do target Erector Spinae whilst Squats use it as a stabilizer.

  17. #17
    King Nothing ericg's Avatar
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    Section of an articel from Fred Hatfield aka Dr. Squat:

    http://www.drsquat.com/articles/some...rmutations.htm

    "BACK EXTENSIONS
    Picture this: The great Olympic weightlifter Vasily Alexeev’s ponderous body draped over a gymnastics long horse with his feet wedged between the stall bars of an unbelievably archaic training gym in Moscow’s Lenin Institute of Sport. With four hundred pounds precariously perched behind his head, he explodes for five reps of back raises. There is virtually NO hip extensor involvement, only pure erector spinae contraction. That means 1) tremendous low back limit strength and speed-strength is developed far beyond what any other low back exercise could possibly accomplish, and 2) virtually NO trauma to the tenuous intervertebral discs of the lumbar spine, which is something no other low back exercise ever conceived can claim.

    By far the biggest muscles of your lower back are the "erector" muscles. They're also the most visible. Your erector spinae muscles are designed to extend (and hyperextend) your spine. They do NOT act on your hip joint, so there's no reason to engage in exercises which require hip joint movement (i.e., traditional "hypers").

    The best way to target your erectors is with "back extensions." This exercise requires the use of a specialized bench quite unlike the ones you're probably used to seeing around the gyms (the "hyper" benches you are used to seeing are, in my opinion, relatively worthless). The bench of choice is called (by its inventor, Dr. Mike Yessis) a "glute-ham-gastroc machine." He called it that because those muscles are the ones the Soviets target with a similar exercise which Dr. Yessis improved upon. Glute-ham-gastroc raises are discussed in the section (below) dealing with leg and hip exercises.

    To use this device to target your erectors, your feet are secured by the two foot pads which are backed by a metal plate that prevents your feet from slipping through. Your "belly button" is placed in the middle of the padded support. Your knees are bent. Then, your feet push against the metal plate in order to "lock" your upper legs against the padded bench. All of this ensures that only your erector muscles are targeted, and NOT your hip extensors (gluteals). Simply assume the described position and flex your spine (round your back downward). Hold as much weight behind your head as you can, and extend your spine (straighten it back out again). You should not raise way up by arching (hyperextending) your back, as doing so places too much strain on the intervertebral discs of your lumbar spine. Repeat for the desired number of reps.

    This exercise is quite probably the ONLY low back exercise you will ever have to do. It is that effective.

    Noted exceptions are deadlifts, squats, glute-ham raises and explosive high pulls, all of which involve the lower back muscles as either stabilizers or synergists. However, none is done for the express purpose of developing your lower back, and are probably unsuitable for most trainees outside clinical and sports-specific applications."


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  18. #18
    Bigger fewl
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    Thank you eric, great stuff. That article more or less supports the point I was trying to get across.


    "This is a movement I see being done all the time. It makes me wonder why people even bother with it. It is not even a full ROM movement so I couldn't see it being on the top of the list.
    Any movement that doesn't take a muscle through it's natural ROM is not a superior exercise."

    Deadlifts and squats don't take spine erectors through their full natural ROM either, although I don't see what a 'natural' ROM has anything to do with it anyways.

    "Yes, you are too advanced for us. LOL!!!!"

    This is foolish and childish. For one thing, yes I am more advanced than YOU when it comes to weightlifting knowledge, at least from what I've read on your posts. For another thing, I never said I possessed an advanced level of experience, I said the information I was giving would seem to apply more to an advanced lifter.

    I am in no way trying to downgrade your precious deadlifts and squats, and I'm not saying this is hard based information. This is just what I have found with common sense and training experience.
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  19. #19
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Ok, then base this off my experience.

    I haven't done a heavy hyperextension in over two years. I have done heavy deadlifts.

    My spinal erectors are easily among the strongest and most developed muscles I have.
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  20. #20
    Bigger fewl
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    I believe it.

    How do you know how strong they are?
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  21. #21
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Because they can support 350+ lb deadlifts for 8+ reps, similar weight in the good morning and SLDL, along with several hundred pounds on the standard hyperextension.

    And they look really nice when I flex them in the mirror.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  22. #22
    Bigger fewl
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    Just wondering.... how exactly did or do you do weighted hyperextensions.
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  23. #23
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Well, I used the machine thingy at first, on the rare occasions. Then, when I got to the point of doing 320 lbs for 15 reps, I decided I'd outgrown it and moved on to free weights.

    I found a contraption to bundle together a couple of 45's. I think the most I did free weight was 2 45's and a 35, and that was only because I couldn't hold much more. I still got that for like 15 reps.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  24. #24
    Bigger fewl
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    Holding the plates to your chest?

    I used to do those, but I've been using a dumbell lately. It's much easier to hold and alot more comfortable.
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  25. #25
    Proud Father Maki Riddington's Avatar
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    Originally posted by DaChickenShowYo

    Deadlifts and squats don't take spine erectors through their full natural ROM either, although I don't see what a 'natural' ROM has anything to do with it anyways.


    This is foolish and childish. For one thing, yes I am more advanced than YOU when it comes to weightlifting knowledge, at least from what I've read on your posts. For another thing, I never said I possessed an advanced level of experience, I said the information I was giving would seem to apply more to an advanced lifter.

    *** Since you are so advanced in weightlifting knowledge please enlighten us as to how the exercise described in the above post can transfer over to the deadlift when one is squatting loads that are 90% or above. Since you are saying that they are only used as stabilizers. If they are only stabilizing wouldn't it be more functional to train them in the manner they are contracting in?

    Next, describe to me what the full ROM for the errectors is?
    Last edited by Maki Riddington; 01-08-2002 at 05:33 PM.
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    "Soli Deo Gloria"
    "Test all things; hold fast what is good.": 1 Thessalonians 5:21

    "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
    So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
    Romans 7:14-25

    "Judo is not about strength. Yet in the learning curve, all Judokas get strong. Only with time do you learn where to apply that strength."
    The Art of Judo

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