I'd like to start this post with a quote I took from another thread:
I seam to remember Lyle McDonald saying that one can naturally gain:
year 1: 20 pounds
year 2: 15 pounds
year 3: 5- 10 pounds
years 4: done...
You know, the more I think about it, the more I have to admit that this is the sad reality of the situation for the genetically average lifter. When I first started lifting (with a real program and diet) slightly over 2 years ago, I made rapid and noticeable changes to my physique during the first 9 months or so. After that, I was still making progress, but it wasn't nearly as noticeable in a given time frame. Now, even though my weight and strength are going up and I'm keeping my bf% in check for the most part, the changes are hardly noticeable anymore. I suppose they will always be more noticeable to others than to me, but even I noticed the great gains I was making during the first several months.
It's kind of sad, really. When I first started this lifestyle, I was really excited about it, because I figured it was something that would continue to reward my hard work for years to come, and the results would always be noticeable. Now here I am, after having trained for slightly over two years, and I'm starting to realize that as time goes on, I will have to bust my ass harder and harder for smaller and smaller results. Obviously I am always learning more about what works best for me in terms of training, diet, etc., and can make small modifications to these to optimize my results, but none of them are going to lead to some new explosion in growth.
I'm starting to see now why so many experienced, but not genetically gifted, lifters turn to steriods now. What fun is it in busting your ass day after day for a 1 lb gain in LBM every few months?
Then again, if one is truly at their genetic potential, everything they gain with the AAS will eventually be lost once they stop taking the drugs.
What do you guys all think of this? Can anyone relate to what I am saying?
I don't believe that your muscle mass stops at your fourth year. I think it just slows way way down... Where it might take 5 years to do what you did in your first year. Besides, if anything, keep working out to maintain what you do have. Most people could have a great physique if they ate right and proper. Getting a great body doesn't mean you have to weight 243 pounds ripped. People can look completely awesome at 5'10" 180 ripped.Originally Posted by SpecialK
Anyway, everything gets old after a while. You have to change things up and change goals every so often in order to avoid burnout. That is why people are advised cheat meals, even if they don't want one, because over time you may just snap and pig out on everything and leave your diet.
Just my thoughts.
I understand what you are saying. But honestly. Just don't give up and don't get discouraged. If you have to use some aas to make yourself happy do it. You only live once.
I agree..I haven't even done my first bulk yet, but I've pondered this moment as well.
I plan to set some goals, get involved in activities that require my body to be in peak condition, change up the workouts with things like crossfit, etc...maybe do a marathon or something--just always be switching it up and keeping it interesting, and at the same time keep my body guessing.
Having so much muscle mass enables you to do things that some people only dream about. It would be a shame to not go DO THOSE THINGS and put your man-made machine to work!
That's the problem with bodybuilding. There's no light at the end of the tunnel. I train for performance and also size, but I don't care if my rear delts aren't in proportion with my ass or whatever pro bodybuilding symmetry nonsense.
Train for strength, and do odd things that nobody else does. I have a fascination with grip training and also classic lifts.
I'm with the DL'er... I acknowledge that someday (in the distant future) I won't be able to gain much more size; that's not a big deal for me. If I can keep getting stronger, the muscle doesn't have to be bigger. And if I finally top out on strength, then I have endurance to work at, and explosiveness, and speed... I'm an athlete moreso than a BBer, so there will never be an end to the gains I can make. They just might not be visible when I flex my bicep.
Don't ask for a lighter load. Ask for a stronger back.
Powerlift man who cares about size! STRENGTH!!!!! ... is where its at
I look at it as a healthy lifestyle. I eat healthy, lift weights, and do cardio. I do this to be healthy, looking good in the mirror and lifting heavy weight is just an awesome side effect.
Set new goals man. Powerlifting, sprinting, crossfit, sports, olympic lifting, and everything in between.
"I added some db curls with the pink weights for a bit of a burn." - Rookiebldr
"im assuming the holy (big) 3 are: curls, bench, legs?" - Saggas
"had a huge ass burn on my triceps while I was doing those kickbacks, so they'll likely be staying with my exercise program." - Zearoth
"most of my burned calories coming from something called Basal. Wtf does a leaf have to do with any of it?" - Votorx
"We have a lot of people like that on our campus, all hippies and things, that go around preaching against corporations, jocks, preps, accountants, and anyone else that feels the need to shower more than occasionally." - Shankerr
"Damn man why are some women just so demonic and evil.. its like you wanna get a stake and mallet and an erection at the same time." - WBBIRL
I second that. I think if I hadn't found powerlifting, I'd have stopped all this rogorous training by now. Yes, I want to look good, but when powerlifting there are always new goals to try to reach, meets to win, etc.Originally Posted by KevinStarke
Exaclty, I like the way I look just fine its all about the PR baby!
Switch to strength training or start using gear would be my alternatives.
Poo is also LBM - The Built
Sometimes you just need to go to Burger King and see a bunch of fat people stuffing their face in to give you renewed vigor... It works! The best reason to continue is the fear of becoming that loud obnoxious fat ass that annoys everyone.
Look at it this way- if you do reach a point where you cant gain any more and your working out is just maintaining the level youve reached, then you can start the slippery slope down to being old that most people go down, or you can be as stong as you are now even when your peers are being helped across the road or wasting away in their armchairs, surely gaining only 1lb a month is better than that! stick to it man, be all you can be
Last edited by fat2fit; 01-24-2006 at 05:26 PM.
I agree. It is ALL about he pr's, and don't let anybody tell you different. I am addicted to powerlifting and it's my passion. The best thing in my life. I just can't say enough about it.Originally Posted by KevinStarke
I'm hoping to get a good discussion going here. Thanks for the replies everyone. First of all, I just turned 23 a few months ago, so I'm not really that old. I guess I always figured that once I got to around 40 or so, I would be doing really good to just hang on to what I have, but I didn't expect to be reaching that point this quickly. Really I'm not trying to say that I'm done growing now, I'm just making the observation that gains are coming much more slowly now, and I expect the rate will get even slower as time goes on.
Second, as I said in my first post, I think a routine change can only do so much. I don't do the same EXACT thing everytime. My workouts now are different than they were a few months ago. I'm always looking for things that could be done better than before. But like I said originally, a routine change is only going to help so much. It's not like switching around a few exercises is going to lead to some new mass explosion, similar to what I experienced in the first few months of training.
Another point: I always have been a BBer up to this point - I like to see the weight on the bar go up, but only insofar as it helps me gain LBM. I really don't care what the absolute number of lbs. on the bar is, so as long as I see SOME progress over time and gain LBM along with it. Powerlifting never really interested me because it never seemed worth the risk. The potential for injury on a 1RM deadlift just didn't outweigh the satisfaction of doing it for me. I totally understand the part about finding a new physical activity to keep things interesting - heck I used to be a diehard runner for several years, and did karate for a few before that. But right now, BBing is my passion and I want to get as big as my body will allow. Unfortunately my rate of progress just seems to get slower as time goes on.
all good things must come to an end,
that is just part of life my friend.
Why not just juice then.
I remember your post in that other thread and thought allot about it. But at the end of the day I really just didn't know how to respond.
First off bro, you gotta keep your head up. I fully intend to put on another 20 pounds of muscle this year, and so should you. And I frankly don't care what anyone says. Wether I can or can not do it doesn't matter. I've made up my mind that I'm doing it, and so should you.
Second, two years in the game really isn't all that long. You're probably *just* out of the beginer stage. Sure, you're not going to get those incredible noob gains where everyone notices, ect, ect... But over the course of the year you will still pack on some quality size and mass. I suspect allot of the noob gains aren't really fibril gains anyway.. just things like increased ability to store glycogen and stuff like that. Quality comes with time, consistency and persistance!
Third, I really firmly believe that allot of Bodybuilding is grounded in your diet. Lift on any routine you want... sets, reps, exercises, ect... it's all meaningless if your diet isn't in order. And frankly, probably each and every one of us could do something to improve our diet.
Fourth, maybe you need other ways to measure progress. How do you currently measure progress? The mirror? What about tape measure? The scale? Do you have bodyweight goals? Strength goals? Composition goals? What are your goals man?
Fifth, keep your head up bro!
"To make a big training like Dimas, you can not be a pussy." - Christos Iakovou
prepare yourself, because it's a big training
Turnin nothin into somethin, is God work
And you get nothin without struggle and hard work
Think like a man of action, act like a man of thought. - Henri Bergson.
Yanno, the more I read about how much muscle gain men can expect, the more I realize how patient I must be.
Women just do NOT grow fast.
The changes we get are soooooooo slooooow.
SpecialK, learn to enjoy another aspect of this sport - you get to look your best from this point forward, and you'll get to enjoy this for a LOOONG time.
That's pretty damned cool, to have reached this point so young.
So join some martial art and dedicate your life to mastering it.
this is where i want to go, when i'm all healed up i'll start my new journeyOriginally Posted by Nick Hatfield
You will soon see Getfit in OngII Flying Knee Thingys of Doom see if the feisty greek can survive the kicks of Steel Leg From Shaolin Soccer,Dim Mak(def touch) from ChungLee,and Flying Crane by Daniel-san-El Pietro
Spray it with windex greek!-the famous El Pietro
You be quiet or i'll clean and press your narrow francophone self-Callahan
Lift for gains,not glory.Control your ego and the weight
What a strong girl! This leads me to believe you can severly injure most of the male population-Nick Hatfield
You're blazing white hot,anyone ever tell you that? Sometimes i think you have fingers faster then Superman when it comes to posts on WBB forums.
Hot in terms of both speed and... well new hotness- Stash