Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: Crashing after workout help

  1. #1
    Whiner Geeper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    673

    Crashing after workout help

    Lately I've been crashing HARD after my workouts, I'm just not right for hours afterwards. My post workout nutrition seems to be on target, and my workouts only last 45-50 minutes at the most... so what's wrong with me?

    EDIT- My wife had a thought---- Post workout my shake is whey, creatine, dextrose and BCAAs, could the crash be a result of a sugar high from the dextrose and when that wears off sugar crash?
    Last edited by Geeper; 02-28-2006 at 01:41 PM.

  2. #2
    Not Done Yet ShockBoxer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    3,265
    When was the last time you took a week off lifting?
    The Reconstruction Project (Journal)

    Age: 34, Height: 5'4, Weight: 185, BF: somewhere between 15 and 45%

    Weightlifting Start Date: July 26, 2005 - Bench 95 x 6, Dead 110 x 8, Smith Squat 180 x 8
    Bests: Bench 185 x 8, Dead 400 x 1, Zercher Squat 295 x 3


    Stop thinking and go lift - Paul Stagg

  3. #3
    Whiner Geeper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    673
    Quote Originally Posted by ShockBoxer
    When was the last time you took a week off lifting?
    Around New Years, and I'm only hitting the gym 4 times a week right now: 2 on, 1 off, 2 on, 2 off.

  4. #4
    *Bingo Fuel clawhammer_33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    MSP, MN
    Posts
    767
    whats the rest of your diet like?
    Face it: biceps are the muscle that classifies you as a muscle man.

    Striding across the fields, carrying a vorpal blade, cometh Clawhammer! And he gives a bloodthirsty bellow:

    "As sure as predators devour prey, I shall paint the town a sanguine shade of doom!!!"
    Hilarity

  5. #5
    Whiner Geeper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    673
    Quote Originally Posted by clawhammer_33
    whats the rest of your diet like?
    Right now- bulk and pretty clean. Well, actually, compared to most bulks around here insanely clean

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    0
    Might want to give it a try. Malto / Dextrose are entirely unnecessary anyways. Old bodybuilder myth and lore.


    Insulin sensitivity of protein and glucose metabolism in human forearm skeletal muscle.

    Louard RJ, Fryburg DA, Gelfand RA, Barrett EJ.

    Department of Internal Medicine, Yale University School of Medicine, New Haven, Connecticut 06510.

    Physiologic increases of insulin promote net amino acid uptake and protein anabolism in forearm skeletal muscle by restraining protein degradation. The sensitivity of this process to insulin is not known. Using the forearm perfusion method, we infused insulin locally in the brachial artery at rates of 0.00 (saline control), 0.01, 0.02, 0.035, or 0.05 mU/min per kg for 150 min to increase local forearm plasma insulin concentration by 0, approximately 20, approximately 35, approximately 60, and approximately 120 microU/ml (n = 35). L-[ring-2,6-3H]phenylalanine and L-[1-14C]leucine were infused systemically, and the net forearm balance, rate of appearance (Ra) and rate of disposal (R(d)) of phenylalanine and leucine, and forearm glucose balance were measured basally and in response to insulin infusion. Compared to saline, increasing rates of insulin infusion progressively increased net forearm glucose uptake from 0.9 mumol/min per 100 ml (saline) to 1.0, 1.8, 2.4, and 4.7 mumol/min per 100 ml forearm, respectively. Net forearm balance for phenylalanine and leucine was significantly less negative than basal (P < 0.01 for each) in response to the lowest dose insulin infusion, 0.01 mU/min per kg, and all higher rates of insulin infusion. Phenylalanine and leucine R(a) declined by approximately 38 and 40% with the lowest dose insulin infusion. Higher doses of insulin produced no greater effect (decline in R(a) varied between 26 and 42% for phenylalanine and 30-50% for leucine). In contrast, R(d) for phenylalanine and leucine did not change with insulin. We conclude that even modest increases of plasma insulin can markedly suppress proteolysis, measured by phenylalanine R(a), in human forearm skeletal muscle. Further increments of insulin within the physiologic range augment glucose uptake but have little additional effect on phenylalanine R(a) or balance. These results suggest that proteolysis in human skeletal muscle is more sensitive than glucose uptake to physiologic increments in insulin.




    Insulin and insulin-like growth factor-I enhance human skeletal muscle protein anabolism during hyperaminoacidemia by different mechanisms.

    Fryburg DA, Jahn LA, Hill SA, Oliveras DM, Barrett EJ.

    Department of Internal Medicine, University of Virginia Health Sciences Center, Charlottesville 22908, USA.

    Insulin inhibits proteolysis in human muscle thereby increasing protein anabolism. In contrast, IGF-I promotes muscle protein anabolism principally by stimulating protein synthesis. As increases or decreases of plasma amino acids may affect protein turnover in muscle and also alter the muscle's response to insulin and/or IGF-I, this study was designed to examine the effects of insulin and IGF-I on human muscle protein turnover during hyperaminoacidemia. We measured phenylalanine balance and [3H]-phenylalanine kinetics in both forearms of 22 postabsorptive adults during a continuous [3H] phenylalanine infusion. Measurements were made basally and at 3 and 6 h after beginning a systemic infusion of a balanced amino acid mixture that raised arterial phenylalanine concentration about twofold. Throughout the 6 h, 10 subjects received insulin locally (0.035 mU/min per kg) into one brachial artery while 12 other subjects were given intraaterial IGF-I (100 ng/min per kg) to raise insulin or IGF-I concentrations, respectively, in the infused arm. The contralateral arm in each study served as a simultaneous control for the effects of amino acids (aa) alone. Glucose uptake and lactate release increased in the insulin- and IGF-I-infused forearms (P < 0.01) but did not change in the contralateral (aa alone) forearm in either study. In the aa alone arm in both studies, hyperaminoacidemia reversed the postabsorptive net phenylalanine release by muscle to a net uptake (P < 0.025, for each) due to a stimulation of muscle protein synthesis. In the hormone-infused arms, the addition of either insulin or IGF-I promoted greater positive shifts in phenylalanine balance than the aa alone arm (P < 0.01). With insulin, the enhanced anabolism was due to inhibition of protein degradation (P < 0.02), whereas IGF-I augmented anabolism by a further stimulation of protein synthesis above aa alone (P < 0.02). We conclude that: (a) hyperaminoacidemia specifically stimulates muscle protein synthesis; (b) insulin, even with hyperaminoacidemia, improves muscle protein balance solely by inhibiting proteolysis; and (c) hyperaminoacidemia combined with IGF-I enhances protein synthesis more than either alone.
    Current Lifts

    Bench - 305
    Deadlift - 495
    Squat - 385

  7. #7
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    9,912
    Quote Originally Posted by Glaim
    Might want to give it a try. Malto / Dextrose are entirely unnecessary anyways. Old bodybuilder myth and lore.


    Insulin sensitivity of protein and glucose metabolism in human forearm skeletal muscle.

    Louard RJ, Fryburg DA, Gelfand RA, Barrett EJ.

    Department of Internal Medicine, Yale University School of Medicine, New Haven, Connecticut 06510.

    Physiologic increases of insulin promote net amino acid uptake and protein anabolism in forearm skeletal muscle by restraining protein degradation. The sensitivity of this process to insulin is not known. Using the forearm perfusion method, we infused insulin locally in the brachial artery at rates of 0.00 (saline control), 0.01, 0.02, 0.035, or 0.05 mU/min per kg for 150 min to increase local forearm plasma insulin concentration by 0, approximately 20, approximately 35, approximately 60, and approximately 120 microU/ml (n = 35). L-[ring-2,6-3H]phenylalanine and L-[1-14C]leucine were infused systemically, and the net forearm balance, rate of appearance (Ra) and rate of disposal (R(d)) of phenylalanine and leucine, and forearm glucose balance were measured basally and in response to insulin infusion. Compared to saline, increasing rates of insulin infusion progressively increased net forearm glucose uptake from 0.9 mumol/min per 100 ml (saline) to 1.0, 1.8, 2.4, and 4.7 mumol/min per 100 ml forearm, respectively. Net forearm balance for phenylalanine and leucine was significantly less negative than basal (P < 0.01 for each) in response to the lowest dose insulin infusion, 0.01 mU/min per kg, and all higher rates of insulin infusion. Phenylalanine and leucine R(a) declined by approximately 38 and 40% with the lowest dose insulin infusion. Higher doses of insulin produced no greater effect (decline in R(a) varied between 26 and 42% for phenylalanine and 30-50% for leucine). In contrast, R(d) for phenylalanine and leucine did not change with insulin. We conclude that even modest increases of plasma insulin can markedly suppress proteolysis, measured by phenylalanine R(a), in human forearm skeletal muscle. Further increments of insulin within the physiologic range augment glucose uptake but have little additional effect on phenylalanine R(a) or balance. These results suggest that proteolysis in human skeletal muscle is more sensitive than glucose uptake to physiologic increments in insulin.




    Insulin and insulin-like growth factor-I enhance human skeletal muscle protein anabolism during hyperaminoacidemia by different mechanisms.

    Fryburg DA, Jahn LA, Hill SA, Oliveras DM, Barrett EJ.

    Department of Internal Medicine, University of Virginia Health Sciences Center, Charlottesville 22908, USA.

    Insulin inhibits proteolysis in human muscle thereby increasing protein anabolism. In contrast, IGF-I promotes muscle protein anabolism principally by stimulating protein synthesis. As increases or decreases of plasma amino acids may affect protein turnover in muscle and also alter the muscle's response to insulin and/or IGF-I, this study was designed to examine the effects of insulin and IGF-I on human muscle protein turnover during hyperaminoacidemia. We measured phenylalanine balance and [3H]-phenylalanine kinetics in both forearms of 22 postabsorptive adults during a continuous [3H] phenylalanine infusion. Measurements were made basally and at 3 and 6 h after beginning a systemic infusion of a balanced amino acid mixture that raised arterial phenylalanine concentration about twofold. Throughout the 6 h, 10 subjects received insulin locally (0.035 mU/min per kg) into one brachial artery while 12 other subjects were given intraaterial IGF-I (100 ng/min per kg) to raise insulin or IGF-I concentrations, respectively, in the infused arm. The contralateral arm in each study served as a simultaneous control for the effects of amino acids (aa) alone. Glucose uptake and lactate release increased in the insulin- and IGF-I-infused forearms (P < 0.01) but did not change in the contralateral (aa alone) forearm in either study. In the aa alone arm in both studies, hyperaminoacidemia reversed the postabsorptive net phenylalanine release by muscle to a net uptake (P < 0.025, for each) due to a stimulation of muscle protein synthesis. In the hormone-infused arms, the addition of either insulin or IGF-I promoted greater positive shifts in phenylalanine balance than the aa alone arm (P < 0.01). With insulin, the enhanced anabolism was due to inhibition of protein degradation (P < 0.02), whereas IGF-I augmented anabolism by a further stimulation of protein synthesis above aa alone (P < 0.02). We conclude that: (a) hyperaminoacidemia specifically stimulates muscle protein synthesis; (b) insulin, even with hyperaminoacidemia, improves muscle protein balance solely by inhibiting proteolysis; and (c) hyperaminoacidemia combined with IGF-I enhances protein synthesis more than either alone.
    Alright. Maybe I just fell off the turnip truck here, but NEITHER of these studies is looking at the post-workout window, or even DURING-exercise effects.

    Consumed during a workout, dextrose/maltodextrin offer the body a fast supply of glucose, thus sparing muscle glycogen - affording you reduced fatigue and faster recovery. I seem to recall reading there can also be benefits to the CNS from this strategy.

    (As an aside, consuming fast protein such as whey during a workout supplies BCAAs - since BCAAs from muscle tissue can be used for energy during training, I toss a little whey and a little dex into a dilute during-workout shake to spare both glycogen and muscle protein).

    Furthermore, the insulin response effectively blunts the catabolic effect brought about by exercise-induced cortisol secretion.

    Am I missing something here, or are you?

  8. #8
    Banned Roddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    281
    sometimes the kind of whey you have could hit the stomach pretty hard. I tried some stuff which i would describe as being "rich" or thick....it really was hard to digest...so all of a sudden i would feel queezy.

    try fruit juice right afterwards. Pure kind only. Pure cranberry or grape. It will restore your glycogen levels and give you some sugar.

    this is the only thing that has ever saved me from crashing after a workout.

  9. #9
    *Bingo Fuel clawhammer_33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    MSP, MN
    Posts
    767
    Quote Originally Posted by Geeper
    Right now- bulk and pretty clean. Well, actually, compared to most bulks around here insanely clean

    do you have anything written out?

    Maybe try taking some low gi carbs about an hour after postwrokout shake, some oats or rice and tuna to add some slow uptake of carbs.

    do you take ALA or are you diabetic hypoglycemic? Get a blood sugar monitor and check blood sugar hourly to see if this is an issue?
    Face it: biceps are the muscle that classifies you as a muscle man.

    Striding across the fields, carrying a vorpal blade, cometh Clawhammer! And he gives a bloodthirsty bellow:

    "As sure as predators devour prey, I shall paint the town a sanguine shade of doom!!!"
    Hilarity

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Built
    Alright. Maybe I just fell off the turnip truck here, but NEITHER of these studies is looking at the post-workout window, or even DURING-exercise effects.

    Consumed during a workout, dextrose/maltodextrin offer the body a fast supply of glucose, thus sparing muscle glycogen - affording you reduced fatigue and faster recovery. I seem to recall reading there can also be benefits to the CNS from this strategy.

    (As an aside, consuming fast protein such as whey during a workout supplies BCAAs - since BCAAs from muscle tissue can be used for energy during training, I toss a little whey and a little dex into a dilute during-workout shake to spare both glycogen and muscle protein).

    Furthermore, the insulin response effectively blunts the catabolic effect brought about by exercise-induced cortisol secretion.

    Am I missing something here, or are you?
    Well, here's the thing...

    There is no 'post workout window'. There's no research to support such an idea...the research actually shows heightened insulin sensitivity >24 hours.

    Insulin's sole role post workout in terms of protein synthesis is inhibition of proteolysis. That's what that research shows, and it also shows the amount required is low...very low. Sure malto will allow you to recover quicker, but 24 hours of regular feeding is MORE than enough time to top off glycogen stores and prepare you for another workout. If you're an endurance athlete this could be beneficial, but for your bodybuilders, unless you're doing two workouts a day, it's essentially unneccessary. During a workout, I would agree, a glucose beverage is beneficial.

    As far as whey protein...whey really isn't even that fast a protein. In comparison to casein it's relatively fast, but if you're really seeking a 'fast' protein you'd need to consume pure amino acids or whey hydrolystate. Funny thing is there's research that suggests consuming food <30 minutes post workout actually inhibits protein synthesis.

    I hope I'm not coming off as argumentative, I'm really not trying to be. I have a lot of respect for you as I've seen your progress pictures and you've done wonderfully.

    Maybe you'll like this one more.

    Exercise Effects on Muscle Insulin Signaling and Action
    Invited Review: Role of insulin in translational control of protein synthesis in skeletal muscle by amino acids or exercise
    Scot R. Kimball1, Peter A. Farrell2, and Leonard S. Jefferson1

    1 Department of Cellular and Molecular Physiology, The Pennsylvania State University College of Medicine, Hershey 17033; and 2 Noll Physiology Research Center, The Pennsylvania State University, University Park, Pennsylvania 16802

    Protein synthesis in skeletal muscle is modulated in response to a variety of stimuli. Two stimuli receiving a great deal of recent attention are increased amino acid availability and exercise. Both of these effectors stimulate protein synthesis in part through activation of translation initiation. However, the full response of translation initiation and protein synthesis to either effector is not observed in the absence of a minimal concentration of insulin. The combination of insulin and either increased amino acid availability or endurance exercise stimulates translation initiation and protein synthesis in part through activation of the ribosomal protein S6 protein kinase S6K1 as well as through enhanced association of eukaryotic initiation factor eIF4G with eIF4E, an event that promotes binding of mRNA to the ribosome. In contrast, insulin in combination with resistance exercise stimulates translation initiation and protein synthesis through enhanced activity of a guanine nucleotide exchange protein referred to as eIF2B. In both cases, the amount of insulin required for the effects is low, and a concentration of the hormone that approximates that observed in fasting animals is sufficient for maximal stimulation. This review summarizes the results of a number of recent studies that have helped to establish our present understanding of the interactions of insulin, amino acids, and exercise in the regulation of protein synthesis in skeletal muscle.
    Last edited by Glaim; 02-28-2006 at 10:35 PM.
    Current Lifts

    Bench - 305
    Deadlift - 495
    Squat - 385

  11. #11
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    9,912
    Quote Originally Posted by Glaim
    Well, here's the thing...

    There is no 'post workout window'. There's no research to support such an idea...the research actually shows heightened insulin sensitivity >24 hours.
    Yes it does. But if I'm not mistaken, it follows something that resembles a logarithmic curve.
    Quote Originally Posted by Glaim
    Insulin's sole role post workout in terms of protein synthesis is inhibition of proteolysis.
    Okay, here's the problem. I'm not talking protein synthesis as much as the prevention of muscle catabolism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Glaim
    That's what that research shows, and it also shows the amount required is low...very low. Sure malto will allow you to recover quicker, but 24 hours of regular feeding is MORE than enough time to top off glycogen stores and prepare you for another workout.
    I'm also not talking about replenishing glycogen stores - I'm talking about sparing them. Hence, the dilute whey and dex during my workout.
    Quote Originally Posted by Glaim
    If you're an endurance athlete this could be beneficial, but for your bodybuilders, unless you're doing two workouts a day, it's essentially unneccessary. During a workout, I would agree, a glucose beverage is beneficial.

    As far as whey protein...whey really isn't even that fast a protein. In comparison to casein it's relatively fast, but if you're really seeking a 'fast' protein you'd need to consume pure amino acids or whey hydrolystate. Funny thing is there's research that suggests consuming food <30 minutes post workout actually inhibits protein synthesis.
    But blunts cortisol. I'll take it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glaim

    I hope I'm not coming off as argumentative, I'm really not trying to be. I have a lot of respect for you as I've seen your progress pictures and you've done wonderfully.
    Thank you very much. No problem - I'm just wading through this stuff myself. It's good to get more information as I drown.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glaim
    Maybe you'll like this one more.

    Exercise Effects on Muscle Insulin Signaling and Action
    Invited Review: Role of insulin in translational control of protein synthesis in skeletal muscle by amino acids or exercise
    Scot R. Kimball1, Peter A. Farrell2, and Leonard S. Jefferson1

    1 Department of Cellular and Molecular Physiology, The Pennsylvania State University College of Medicine, Hershey 17033; and 2 Noll Physiology Research Center, The Pennsylvania State University, University Park, Pennsylvania 16802

    Protein synthesis in skeletal muscle is modulated in response to a variety of stimuli. Two stimuli receiving a great deal of recent attention are increased amino acid availability and exercise. Both of these effectors stimulate protein synthesis in part through activation of translation initiation. However, the full response of translation initiation and protein synthesis to either effector is not observed in the absence of a minimal concentration of insulin. The combination of insulin and either increased amino acid availability or endurance exercise stimulates translation initiation and protein synthesis in part through activation of the ribosomal protein S6 protein kinase S6K1 as well as through enhanced association of eukaryotic initiation factor eIF4G with eIF4E, an event that promotes binding of mRNA to the ribosome. In contrast, insulin in combination with resistance exercise stimulates translation initiation and protein synthesis through enhanced activity of a guanine nucleotide exchange protein referred to as eIF2B. In both cases, the amount of insulin required for the effects is low, and a concentration of the hormone that approximates that observed in fasting animals is sufficient for maximal stimulation. This review summarizes the results of a number of recent studies that have helped to establish our present understanding of the interactions of insulin, amino acids, and exercise in the regulation of protein synthesis in skeletal muscle.
    Good article, but doesn't really help me - I don't consume whey post workout - and I'm careful to make sure my pre-workout nutrition is dialled in.

    The thing I'd like to see is the effect of insulin on cortisol being overblown. Show me that one, and I'll reconsider my during-workout nutrition.

    Except it sure is easier to train with that shake ...

  12. #12
    little man pruneman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    playing doctor
    Posts
    1,895
    My understanding of insulin is that insulin should have VERY minimal effects during your workout regardless of whether or not you consume a during-shake. The most potent stimulus for insulin secretion is the entry of glucose into the pancreatic beta-cells. If you are consuming glucose during a workout, I imagine that most of it will be taken up and used by skeletal muscle before it reaches the B-cells--especially if you are consuming a dilute Glc solution. Also, blood is diverted from the gut to the muscle during exercise, so the B-cells would be comparatively poorly perfused. Furthermore, exercise is stressful. During stressful conditions (sympathetic stimulation) the actions of insulin are inhibited. Taking glucose during exercise will help maintain appropriate plasma glucose levels without using endogenous sources (like skeletal muscle), but this effect is not related to insulin.

    I'm not trying to start an arguement...just trying to add to the discussion.
    The world acording to prune

    If you can't be a good example, at least be a terrible warning.

  13. #13
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    9,912
    No, I appreciate the contribution.
    The DURING workout carb and protein drink is to keep my energy up so I can, um, wreck more muscle when I train
    The insulin response blunts cortisol. Those are the biggest deals for me.
    Replenishing glycogen/stimulating muscle synthesis aren't what I'm looking for with this - that happens when I go home and eat.

    And eat.

    And eat.



  14. #14
    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Posts
    10,215
    If you're bonking right after a workout, then the issue is probably pre-workout nutrition.

    How long do you take between eating and working out?

    The journal / I live here.

    If I were to start from scratch as a young 13 year old again, I would do every press, squat, and perhaps deadlifts, for my entire career with chains. -- Dan John

  15. #15
    little man pruneman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    playing doctor
    Posts
    1,895
    Quote Originally Posted by Built
    [SIZE=2]No, I appreciate the contribution.
    The DURING workout carb and protein drink is to keep my energy up so I can, um, wreck more muscle when I train
    I totally agree with this!

    The insulin response blunts cortisol. Those are the biggest deals for me.
    The thing I'm saying is that I don't think that there is going to be any significant insulin response DURING the workout. The glucose during the workout will still help to ward off the effects of cortisol because your body will not need to try (at least as hard) to produce glucose from endogenous sources like muscle tissue...but this isn't due to inhibition of cortisol by insulin. All in all, I think that this is really a minor detail and I give the big thumbs up to the during shake
    Last edited by pruneman; 03-01-2006 at 02:19 PM.
    The world acording to prune

    If you can't be a good example, at least be a terrible warning.

  16. #16
    Whiner Geeper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    673
    Quote Originally Posted by MixmasterNash
    If you're bonking right after a workout, then the issue is probably pre-workout nutrition.

    How long do you take between eating and working out?
    Good point... lunch 11-11:30, coffee 12, workout 12:30-12:45 to about 1:30, post workout right away, another small meal at 2:45. Hmmm, that could be it... reading this thread I'm thinking of stealing Builts idea of during workout nutrition, I've never tried that at all. Which raises the question, if I'm drinking a shake during my workout, when to have creatine? During the workout or still after?

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by pruneman
    I totally agree with this!



    The thing I'm saying is that I don't think that there is going to be any significant insulin response DURING the workout. The glucose during the workout will still help to ward off the effects of cortisol because your body will not need to try (at least as hard) to produce glucose from endogenous sources like muscle tissue...but this isn't due to inhibition of cortisol by insulin. All in all, I think that this is really a minor detail and I give the big thumbs up to the during shake
    I'd agree with this. During a workout I'm all for a glucose beverage, and your preworkout nutrition is far more important than post workout. Insulin in general is pretty low during a workout as exercise greatly suppresses it. Sensitivity is so high as it is that the least bit of insulin should be more than enough. If I remember back to my days looking at graphs in exercise physiology, cortisol doesn't really start to climb substantially until an hour or so of continuous exercise...you also see a concurrent jump in GH at this point as well.
    Current Lifts

    Bench - 305
    Deadlift - 495
    Squat - 385

  18. #18
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    9,912
    I have always been more concerned with pre-workout nutrition than the post workout insulin spike - if the pre-workout nutrition wasn't there, you BETTER get the post workout stuff in fast, but it's more damage-control than optimal strategy, IMHO.

  19. #19
    DeaTH BeFoRe WeaKNeSs sCaRz*Of*PaiN's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    My Head
    Posts
    6,112
    Quote Originally Posted by Built
    I have always been more concerned with pre-workout nutrition than the post workout insulin spike - if the pre-workout nutrition wasn't there, you BETTER get the post workout stuff in fast, but it's more damage-control than optimal strategy, IMHO.
    I notice I have a lot more energy when sipping carb drinks during a workout, so I know where you're comin' from. I would never miss the pre-workout nutrition. I'd die in the gym.
    Last edited by sCaRz*Of*PaiN; 03-01-2006 at 07:41 PM.
    "The only easy day was yesterday."

  20. #20
    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Posts
    10,215
    Quote Originally Posted by Geeper
    Good point... lunch 11-11:30, coffee 12, workout 12:30-12:45 to about 1:30, post workout right away, another small meal at 2:45. Hmmm, that could be it... reading this thread I'm thinking of stealing Builts idea of during workout nutrition, I've never tried that at all. Which raises the question, if I'm drinking a shake during my workout, when to have creatine? During the workout or still after?
    During workout nutrition is not necessary at all for an hour long workout. At most, I would consider gatorade, but probably not even that.

    You should probably try to get calories in more than an hour before working out.

    Do you eat breakfast?

    The journal / I live here.

    If I were to start from scratch as a young 13 year old again, I would do every press, squat, and perhaps deadlifts, for my entire career with chains. -- Dan John

  21. #21
    sissy Bohizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Oakville, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,137
    just one question.. it's bolded:

    Quote Originally Posted by pruneman
    My understanding of insulin is that insulin should have VERY minimal effects during your workout regardless of whether or not you consume a during-shake. The most potent stimulus for insulin secretion is the entry of glucose into the pancreatic beta-cells. I was under the impression that Insulin allowed for the absorbance of glucose the blood. Hence, the reason why Type 1 Diabetics have high blood sugar without insulin. Just trying to clarify. If you are consuming glucose during a workout, I imagine that most of it will be taken up and used by skeletal muscle before it reaches the B-cells--especially if you are consuming a dilute Glc solution. Also, blood is diverted from the gut to the muscle during exercise, so the B-cells would be comparatively poorly perfused. Furthermore, exercise is stressful. During stressful conditions (sympathetic stimulation) the actions of insulin are inhibited. Taking glucose during exercise will help maintain appropriate plasma glucose levels without using endogenous sources (like skeletal muscle), but this effect is not related to insulin.

    I'm not trying to start an arguement...just trying to add to the discussion.
    Do what needs to be done.

    Every time I was in the hole I swear a turd kissed my underwear. - Hatred
    I love snatch. I think I'm addicted to it. - Stray
    I like a woman I can climb - Jinkies
    Personally ... I'm a vagitarian - Brawl
    I don't box, but I'll have a dance off with any of you tools. When I get all my 230 lbs shaking and grooving you bet your a$$es you'll get served. - BilltheButcher

  22. #22
    little man pruneman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    playing doctor
    Posts
    1,895
    Quote Originally Posted by Bohizzle
    just one question.. it's bolded:
    "Allow" is not the right way to think about insulin's effect on glucose uptake. Insulin stimulates traffiking of GLUT4 glucose channels to the apical surface of insulin sensitive tissues (muscle, adipose, etc.). Thus insulin acts to increase glucose uptake. Cells have other constitutive glucose channels (GLUT1 and 3 I think) that allow for a basal rate of glucose uptake. Yes...in type I diabetics, plasma glucose levels are elevated due to a lack of insulin. Insulin facilitates glucose uptake when plasma glucose is high, such as after a starchy meal. It is not essential for glucose uptake (and thus usage) when plasma glucose is normal. Think of it this way...if you are taking glucose during a workout, the glucose is being used by the muscle too quickly to cause a significant insulin response. There are other mechanisms by which insulin is inhibited during exercise.

    You don't want insulin during a workout...it would make your blood sugar drop like a rock.
    The world acording to prune

    If you can't be a good example, at least be a terrible warning.

  23. #23
    sissy Bohizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Oakville, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,137
    gotcha, thanks for the info!
    Do what needs to be done.

    Every time I was in the hole I swear a turd kissed my underwear. - Hatred
    I love snatch. I think I'm addicted to it. - Stray
    I like a woman I can climb - Jinkies
    Personally ... I'm a vagitarian - Brawl
    I don't box, but I'll have a dance off with any of you tools. When I get all my 230 lbs shaking and grooving you bet your a$$es you'll get served. - BilltheButcher

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •