The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Get Some! KoSh's Avatar
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    Eccentric Speed Work...

    Been awhile since I've posted, but I've been lurking.

    I coach football in upstate, NY and we had a coaching clinic this weekend and a guy by the name of Dan Fichter came in and gave us a great presentation on isometric activities and how to really increase speed by doing more eccentric work. A quick explosive movement on the eccentric phase increases speed according to him. I buy into his theory. The muscle fires much faster in a fast eccentric movement than it does in a slower one, and since quick firing occurs during running it makes sense that it increases speed.

    My question is, how many of you buy into this kind of theory? And does anyone have a good link to take another look at? I'm extremely interested in this kind of training to go along with the power stuff.

    Thanks in advance for any help.
    Last edited by KoSh; 03-13-2006 at 10:49 AM.
    "Donít fall for the crap that people are peddling on message boards, in magazines or on TV. Get your **** in order, and get your training in order. Start kicking ass, and take out the crap that doesnít matter. Start doing and believing in the stuff that works, and do it today and forever. You want science and studies? **** you. Iíve got scars and blood and vomit."
    Jim Wendler, 531 Method

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  3. #2
    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    What does that have to do with isometrics?

    The journal / I live here.

    If I were to start from scratch as a young 13 year old again, I would do every press, squat, and perhaps deadlifts, for my entire career with chains. -- Dan John

  4. #3
    Get Some! KoSh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MixmasterNash
    What does that have to do with isometrics?
    Well, that part doesn't. Thread title I suppose is misleading.

    The whole presentation was on isometrics/dynamic stuff but he covered much more. I should have been more clear. My mistake.
    "Donít fall for the crap that people are peddling on message boards, in magazines or on TV. Get your **** in order, and get your training in order. Start kicking ass, and take out the crap that doesnít matter. Start doing and believing in the stuff that works, and do it today and forever. You want science and studies? **** you. Iíve got scars and blood and vomit."
    Jim Wendler, 531 Method

  5. #4
    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    I think everyone agrees that speed work will increase speed, and that there is some carryover to strength as well.

    The journal / I live here.

    If I were to start from scratch as a young 13 year old again, I would do every press, squat, and perhaps deadlifts, for my entire career with chains. -- Dan John

  6. #5
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Jay Schroeder, Dietrich Buchenholz, et. al have created quite a following w. their ideas about power absorption being critical to power development. I'm not sure I really "buy into it", but a lot of the things they seem to be advocating make a lot of sense.

    Here's Buchenholz's site: http://inno-sport.net/
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
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  7. #6
    words only fill silence Spence's Avatar
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    I don't know much about isometrics but when was training for hockey and boxing last year I worked with a Twist Conditioning coach - they emphasize effective and efficient movement focusing on a foot-ground relationship, balance and an angle of force application that will help with reducing the risk of injury (by promoting movement) .. I had a problem with one of my knees.. which led me to see them - I found it really helpful! I know it is slightly deviating from your question but perhaps check them out if you are a football coach
    Last edited by Spence; 03-13-2006 at 11:13 AM.
    I can resist everything except temptation.

  8. #7
    Iced Earth - Stormrider ArchAngel777's Avatar
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    That is the problem with a lot of information... A lot of theories do make sense. They sound right, they hold credability, to some extent... But the problem is when 5 or 6 theories sound good and they are all in oppositation to one another... Reconcile that? You can't...

    Interesting read, but still, I think people just have to stick to what it tried and true and stop trying to find the "holy grail"... I mean, don't get me wrong, we should always be searching for a better way to train, but always jumping on the train for "this new style" isn't going to help much. We have a lot more to learn...

    Just my thoughts on it...

  9. #8
    Get Some! KoSh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchAngel777
    That is the problem with a lot of information... A lot of theories do make sense. They sound right, they hold credability, to some extent... But the problem is when 5 or 6 theories sound good and they are all in oppositation to one another... Reconcile that? You can't...

    Interesting read, but still, I think people just have to stick to what it tried and true and stop trying to find the "holy grail"... I mean, don't get me wrong, we should always be searching for a better way to train, but always jumping on the train for "this new style" isn't going to help much. We have a lot more to learn...

    Just my thoughts on it...
    I agree to an extent. But if we always stick to what's "tried and true" there will be no change and we may be missing out on alot of good information and techniques.

    Thanks for all the replys, they're definitely helpful.
    "Donít fall for the crap that people are peddling on message boards, in magazines or on TV. Get your **** in order, and get your training in order. Start kicking ass, and take out the crap that doesnít matter. Start doing and believing in the stuff that works, and do it today and forever. You want science and studies? **** you. Iíve got scars and blood and vomit."
    Jim Wendler, 531 Method

  10. #9
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchAngel777
    Interesting read, but still, I think people just have to stick to what it tried and true and stop trying to find the "holy grail"... I mean, don't get me wrong, we should always be searching for a better way to train, but always jumping on the train for "this new style" isn't going to help much. We have a lot more to learn...

    Just my thoughts on it...
    That's fine - I generally agree. But, until 10 years ago, almost no one was using bands, chains, boxes, or boards in their training and now they are commonplace.

    There are a lot of interesting and potentially exciting ideas floating around. I don't necessarily buy into most of them, but they are interesting nonetheless.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  11. #10
    Iced Earth - Stormrider ArchAngel777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoSh
    I agree to an extent. But if we always stick to what's "tried and true" there will be no change and we may be missing out on alot of good information and techniques.

    Thanks for all the replys, they're definitely helpful.
    Agreed. I guess I would like to have "others" do the testing before I decide to give it any credability. You know what I mean? As in, not waste my time being a guine pig! . So, for me personally, I would stick to what is tried and true and once sufficient evidence for a better training program became available, then I would switch. That way, I am not wasting my time and instead, letting others waste theirs
    Last edited by ArchAngel777; 03-13-2006 at 11:33 AM.

  12. #11
    words only fill silence Spence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei
    That's fine - I generally agree. But, until 10 years ago, almost no one was using bands, chains, boxes, or boards in their training and now they are commonplace.

    There are a lot of interesting and potentially exciting ideas floating around. I don't necessarily buy into most of them, but they are interesting nonetheless.

    Yea it's good point - sometimes innovations and changes CAN help ...

    I think it's important to keep other ideas in mind ... especially if you don't want to hurt yourself. It seems like most of these 'theories' and ideas come from rehabilitation centres (ex. Twist or Pilates) and are intended to prevent injury... nobody wants to get hurt!!
    Last edited by Spence; 03-13-2006 at 11:40 AM.
    I can resist everything except temptation.

  13. #12
    http://www.grappling.com russianwol's Avatar
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    A quick explosive movement on the eccentric phase increases speed according to him
    That's usually called plyometrics. Not a theory but a proven fact. Tonn of info available on the net. Also, since muslce fibers consist of different types - in simplicity slow twich and fast twich - different training develops different muslces.

    On a side note my understanding is that "isometric" is often refered to stretching where the muslce is being contracted while in a streched position. I read somewhere that a while ago some fitness magazines claimed that isometric contraction is the fastest way to build muscle - hehe.
    Last edited by russianwol; 03-13-2006 at 04:30 PM.
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  14. #13
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    It's not power training per se. Power training is using muscular force to accelerate a fairly heavy object farily quickly.

    The idea behind the whole Schroeder/Easter Bu...I mean DB Hammer training is to use reactive ability. Reactive ability is sort of this weird region that's similar to speed and power training, but makes use of a different mechanism from strict muscular work.

    The stretch-shortening cycle allows the tendons and connective tissues of the muscle to store up kinetic energy much like a spring stretching. Training this ability trains the body to absorb, store, and rebound this stored energy, which results in a faster motion.
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  15. #14
    Proud Father Maki Riddington's Avatar
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    The bottom line is to get stronger by lifting heavier loads, and then work on applying this new found strength using various methods and techniques. People make the subject a lot more complicated then it really is. Mind you can with just about anything when it comes to the topic of strength and conditioning.
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    "Test all things; hold fast what is good.": 1 Thessalonians 5:21

    "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
    So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
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  16. #15
    WBB's Juggernaut/Liason BigCorey75's Avatar
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    look under the tab entitled with Louis Simmons, there is a ton of information on dynamic work
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