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Thread: Best work out schedule...

  1. #1
    suprarob
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    Best work out schedule...

    I do full body workouts. M/W/F. I rotate Deads/P-Ups/Dips 5x5 with Squats/B-Press/Rows every other w/out. However I had to leave town for a week and could not w/out. When I came back I noticed a nice size increase when I worked out again. I feel the spacing helped not hurt me. So I am considering 2 days rest between each w/out.(M/Th/Sun/Wed/Sat/Tue/Fri/Mon/Th/Sun for example)
    Is this better for us older guys???

    Thanks,Rob.

  2. #2

  3. #3
    suprarob
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    Quote Originally Posted by Built
    It's better if it feels better and it works better.

    Define "old".

    Umm...I'm your age. Sorry, not real old, just don't seem to recupe as fast as 20's and 30's.
    Rob.

  4. #4
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suprarob
    I do full body workouts. M/W/F. I rotate Deads/P-Ups/Dips 5x5 with Squats/B-Press/Rows every other w/out. However I had to leave town for a week and could not w/out. When I came back I noticed a nice size increase when I worked out again. I feel the spacing helped not hurt me. So I am considering 2 days rest between each w/out.(M/Th/Sun/Wed/Sat/Tue/Fri/Mon/Th/Sun for example)
    Is this better for us older guys???

    Thanks,Rob.
    No, that's actually an effect you should exploit.

    People focus far too much on recovery between workouts, when it's the accumulated effect over time that leads to the delayed transformation you experienced.

    In other words, you wouldn't have seen the size increase after the rest period had you not built up a level of fatigue beforehand.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

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  6. #6
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Yeah pretty much.

    Just the workout-to-workout stimulus-rest-recovery wave, but expanded out to encompass weekly and monthly schedules.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  7. #7
    suprarob
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    Quote Originally Posted by PowerManDL
    Yeah pretty much.

    Just the workout-to-workout stimulus-rest-recovery wave, but expanded out to encompass weekly and monthly schedules.
    Could you elaborate a little more?

    Thanks,Rob.

  8. #8
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    This image gives a basic idea of what happens:



    Basically, the body receives a stimulus, in this case the workout. Then it requires a rest interval to recuperate and adapt to the stimulus, and after this it peaks to a new level of development.

    This idea is the root behind most bodybuilders' concept of working a muscle and letting it recover before working it again.

    However, as you can see by looking below that, you can organize each of those components into longer phases of work.

    Phase I could be a week, it could be 4 weeks, but it's designed to impose a stimulus on the body.

    Phase II is designed to let the body recover from the work done in Phase I.

    Phase III pushes the body to a new level using the stimulus and time to adapt created by the first two phases.

    So in essence, while you weren't necessarily recovering from session to session, what you did manage to do was accumulate fatigue for a period of time (Phase I, stimulus), then rest when you didn't work out for a week (Phase II, recovery), and finally when you started working out again, the body reached a new level (Phase III, adaptation).

    So the idea wouldn't so much be to simply increase recovery time, but to plan periods of hard stress, where you intentionally don't recover, and periods of light stress to rest and adapt.

    You seem to have stumbled on a very useful way of organizing training without even realizing it
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  9. #9
    suprarob
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    Quote Originally Posted by PowerManDL
    This image gives a basic idea of what happens:



    Basically, the body receives a stimulus, in this case the workout. Then it requires a rest interval to recuperate and adapt to the stimulus, and after this it peaks to a new level of development.

    This idea is the root behind most bodybuilders' concept of working a muscle and letting it recover before working it again.

    However, as you can see by looking below that, you can organize each of those components into longer phases of work.

    Phase I could be a week, it could be 4 weeks, but it's designed to impose a stimulus on the body.

    Phase II is designed to let the body recover from the work done in Phase I.

    Phase III pushes the body to a new level using the stimulus and time to adapt created by the first two phases.

    So in essence, while you weren't necessarily recovering from session to session, what you did manage to do was accumulate fatigue for a period of time (Phase I, stimulus), then rest when you didn't work out for a week (Phase II, recovery), and finally when you started working out again, the body reached a new level (Phase III, adaptation).

    So the idea wouldn't so much be to simply increase recovery time, but to plan periods of hard stress, where you intentionally don't recover, and periods of light stress to rest and adapt.

    You seem to have stumbled on a very useful way of organizing training without even realizing it
    Wow, seems very interesting. I'll give it a go for awhile!

    Thanks,Rob.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Canadian Crippler's Avatar
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    So an example would be:

    Week 1-2 : 25 sets, 4x a week
    Week 3-4 : 10 sets, 4x a week
    Week 5-6 : 16 sets, 4x a week

    ??
    "I added some db curls with the pink weights for a bit of a burn." - Rookiebldr

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  11. #11
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Using his workout as an example, he's getting roughly 25 reps per session, three times a week, for a squat/deadlift, a row, and a press, for a weekly total of 75 reps.

    Now, assuming that workload/frequency was enough to cause fatigue accumulation as it seemed to, his best bet would be to simply drop the frequency and volume.

    So instead of three 5x5 sessions, he could shoot for 1-2 3x3 sessions for a week or two, then go back to the original routine.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  12. #12
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    To clarify a bit further, in the accumulation phase, the goal is to get the reps, not so much work to bump the poundages, although you can do so. Just that the volume of work takes precedence.

    During the recovery phases, you want to drop the intensity a little bit, but drop the volume and frequency a lot. You can then start working to push up the intensity, and gradually build the volume back up.

    So in this case, say

    Weeks 1-3 - 5x5 M/W/F
    Week 4 - 3x3 F
    Weeks 5-6 - 3x3 T/F

    Weeks 1-3 build up a lot of volume. Week four unloads to allow for some rest. Weeks 5-6 keep the volume per session low, but bump the frequency and push up the intensity, ideally to a new peak.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  13. #13
    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    I recommend movement and mobility work for deloading and recovery. I feel much better after good shoulder or hip movement drills.

    The journal / I live here.

    If I were to start from scratch as a young 13 year old again, I would do every press, squat, and perhaps deadlifts, for my entire career with chains. -- Dan John

  14. #14
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    That's another option.

    I personally just drop the weekly frequency and the volume done per session; I find it helps with stuff that detrains fast, like bench pressing.

    Active recovery stuff is certainly an option though.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  15. #15
    suprarob
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    I'm liking this a lot so far!!!!!
    Rob.

  16. #16
    Bulk + Milk
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    This is known as periodization, correct?

    Because if so, PowerManDL, you've just written one of the most concise, easy-to-understand explanations of the technique I've ever read. I feel like I understand it much better now.
    My journey to a solid 180lbs: Bulk + Milk

    PRs / Short-term goals
    Bench: 205x1 / 225x1
    Squat: 275x2 / 315x1
    Deadlift: 365x1 / 365x1

  17. #17
    In The Iron Jungle feeler76's Avatar
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    Arnold said it best.. "If I didn't feel like I could push my maximum effort that day in the gym, I didn't go. When I needed to stay home, I stayed home. I didn't want to, but the next day I'd push way more than I would have the day before." I read that years ago, and ignored it many times bc it's the drive in us that makes us hit it too hard and be counter productive when our body should have been resting in the first place. Works both ways though. If you are feeling too rested between your workouts, pick it up. You'll know when you need a day off, and often its when you are too mentally motivated and your body just can't produce. Take the next day off and go from there. I always thought that the set day regimen was bs cuz you don't know how you will feel the next day after squating heavy as hell etc.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Meat_Head's Avatar
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    More on accumulation/intensification: http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=929615
    Squat...Eat...Sleep...Grow...Repeat

  19. #19
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thejuice
    This is known as periodization, correct?

    Because if so, PowerManDL, you've just written one of the most concise, easy-to-understand explanations of the technique I've ever read. I feel like I understand it much better now.
    It's one form of periodization, yes.

    And I can't take complete credit for the succintness. Most of that has come from Glenn Pendlay and his ideas on the subject.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

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