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Thread: Deadlift: Wear a belt or do not wear a belt?

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by ExtremeAnabolic
    Which nobody was arguing with. And no one was talking about your gym. That is what I meant by focus. And you still have not answered the question. Which brings me to my next point.

    http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...=69605&page=11

    Why are you trying to argue issues which were not part of the original discussion? Not a flame just an observation gleaned from this thread and the above link.

    Wtf are you talking about? Are you making this difficult on purpose? This thread was talking about wearing a belt or not...do you understand how many threads get off topic??? At least I was still on topic, so wtf are you complaining about? Im letting ppl know, for the ones that wear them far too often, that it is bad for you and explaining why. And my last arguement was right on topic too, I didnt agree with what was being advertised...what is your point to all of this? How about you spend the full 24 hours in your day cutting ppl up who go off topic too.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intensity&Focus
    Wtf are you talking about? Are you making this difficult on purpose? (1) This thread was talking about wearing a belt or not...do you understand how many threads get off topic??? At least I was still on topic, so wtf are you complaining about? (2) Im letting ppl know, for the ones that wear them far too often, that it is bad for you and explaining why. (3) And my last arguement was right on topic too, I didnt agree with what was being advertised...what is your point to all of this? (4)How about you spend the full 24 hours in your day cutting ppl up who go off topic too.
    (numbers are mine)

    1. That is true however you moved beyond that topic by saying that the only belt you should use is a dip belt. That was a bit of a sweeping generalization and I and others pointed out that there are times when it MAY be beneficial to wear a belt especially in competition. There is a difference between saying 'I don't wear a belt/I don't think people should wear belts' and saying that "the only belt you should be using is a dip belt for dips and chins" One is opinion the other is advice. You are entitled to your opinion, but when you or anybody else gives what I consider misleading advice I (and others are also entitled to point that out.)

    2. Exactly who said that wearing belts ALL the time was beneficial in this thread? Nobody mentioned that so why are you defending a position that the opposite stance was never taken to? I think we all agree that belts worn all the time are bad, no argument here. What I am disagreeing with is that belts should only be worn when they are dip belts. I think lifting belts should be used for max attempts on the deadlift as well.

    3. I linked to this one, because it shows a pattern. You are disagreeing with some of the most knowledgable members of this forum (E.P., Chris Mason) and giving us no studies or links to back up your statements, just your opinion. Giving your opinion is fine, that's the nature of discussion boards. But openly attacking members who hold different opinions from you, especially if they have not attacked you first is frowned upon here.


    4. What are you on about? Seriously? Where did I ever "cut you up"? I never called you names or attacked your posts. I asked two questions neither of which made up any sort of personal attack. Again like I said in my last post, I am NOT flaming you nor making any sort of personal attack. I would simply like my question (which I asked in my first post on this thread) answered. How about it?
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 03-17-2006 at 09:10 PM.

  3. #53
    Gaglione Strength Chris Rodgers's Avatar
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    I like my belt.

    I definitely get a good amount out of it on deadlifts.

    I almost always squat with it on.

    I bench with it on.

    I usually wear it for standing BB presses.

    Usually on rows.


    My strength outside the gym without my belt on doesn't seem to be too bad.


    I have SLDL 2.5x BW with no belt.

    I like to do my ab work with weights and/or band tension.

    Ok, I'm done now.
    Best Meet Lifts(Raw w/wraps):
    @165- 435 SQ 270 BE 560 DL.....1255 total
    @181- 535 SQ 300 BE 570 DL.....1400 total
    Best Meet Lifts(Multi-ply):
    @148- 575 SQ 315 BE 515 DL.....1400 total
    @165- 680 SQ 380 BE 540 DL.....1555 total
    @181- 700 SQ 375 BE 535 DL.....1605 total
    Best Gym Lifts(Raw w/wraps)
    545 SQ 305 BE 585 DL

  4. #54
    Super Human kingkrs's Avatar
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    I got this from another site.

    Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 02:52:05 -0500 From: Paul Chek Subject: BACK STRONG & BELTLESS!

    Backstrong and Beltless by Paul Chek MSS, HHP, NMT and reformatted for human consumption by Kim Goss CSCS

    When it comes to lifting heavy, a weight belt is more fashion accessory than essential workout gear

    Remember when the only time you would see someone wearing a weight belt was in the gym, and only when they were performing the heaviest squats, dead lifts and overhead presses? Now it seems everyone who wears a belt-- from the Arnold wannabes to the elite few who make the cover of Powerlifting USA--regardless of what exercise they're performing or how heavy they're lifting. Squats? You MUST wear a belt. Bench presses? You SHOULD wear a belt. Biceps curls? Well, you know, just to be on the safe side...

    It's getting ridiculous.

    The trend to wear a weight belt has now extended beyond the gym doors. Trash collectors, truck drivers, and construction workers often spend their entire workday in a weight belt--as do mail carriers, grocery clerks and even the pizza guy. Some companies have gone so far as to make it a mandatory safety policy that all employees wear a back harness. Next thing you know it's going to be a misdemeanor to drive a car without a weight belt! What's going on here? Do weight belts really protect the back? Will they make you stronger? Can the estimated 85 percent of Americans who will suffer from at least one episode of back pain in their lives find relief, and possibly even avoid surgery, by making a weight belt a habit?

    Before I answer these questions, try to dig up recent pictures of the world's best Olympic weightlifters in competition. Not the American weightlifters who are losing the struggle to achieve international respect, but our European counterparts who are breaking records and winning world and Olympic titles. Isn't it interesting that they never use belts when performing the snatch lift, and seldom in the clean and jerk? Even in training you'll find that many of these lifters prefer to train without any forms of artificial support. In fact, IronMind Enterprises sells videos of these athletes squatting over 700 pounds without a belt! Either these athletes are really stupid, or they know something that we don't.

    INTRA-ABDOMINAL PRESSURE TO THE RESCUE

    To determine whether or not weight belts can protect the back, it's necessary to first look at one of the body's support mechanisms for the spine: intra abdominal pressure.

    As you bend forward, the pressure in your lumbar disks should increase in direct proportion to the degree of forward bending. When using heavy weights in the squat and dead lift, intra-disk pressure may rise 300 percent above normal--such high levels of stress could cause disk herniation if your body did not take measures to protect these structures.

    When you bend forward your abdominal muscles contract, compressing the internal organs, forcing them downward into the pelvic basin and upward into the diaphragm. Through this intra-abominal pressure mechanism there is a decompression of the two lowest vertebral disks (L4/5 and L5/S1). This decompression may be as great as 30 percent or as low as 6 percent. Regardless of the magnitude of the decompression, the important point to remember is that these two lumbar disks carry the greatest load of all spinal disks. If the intra-abdominal pressure mechanism is weakened or faulty, it will proportionally affect the other mechanisms, leaving the lower lumbar disks at a high risk for injury.

    ENTER THE WEIGHT BELT

    So how do weight belts fit into this picture?

    When a weight belt or back harness is wrapped tightly around your torso, intra-abdominal pressure increases. This belt compression creates a mechanical phenomenon known as "hoop tension," and this hoop tension will enable you to lift more weight.

    A good way to understand hoop tension is to visualize what occurs when you squeeze toothpaste out of the tube. When you apply pressure to the tube, the hoop tension forces the toothpaste to ooze out one end of the tube. Knee wraps utilize hoop tension around knee joint to help you lift more weight in squats. Because these wraps are compressive and restrict freedom of motion in the hinge joint, an extension force is created in direct proportion to the level of hoop tension. You can determine how much hoop tension contributes to your squat by seeing how much you can lift with and without wraps.

    Hoop tension develops naturally when you contract your abdominals or artificially when you tighten your weight belt. The result is a "hydraulic amplifier mechanism" that assists in straightening the spine. Natural hoop tension is the body's innate mechanism for increasing your lifting ability. However, the more of an increase in capacity you experience from a weight belt, the greater the weakness and functional deficit you have in the abdominal wall.

    Wait there's more!

    Weighing the value of potential increased strength from wearing a weight belt and potential risk requires you to understand the downside of weight belts as well as the pluses. For example, there's a limit to how much intra-abdominal pressure your body will allow, and this is always less than the the pressure in the blood vessels that pass through the diaphragm. If you were able to exceed the blood pressure levels in these vessels, the blood flow to the heart would be stopped!

    To ensure sufficient circulation to the heart, when you lift heavy weights your abdominal muscles only contract hard enough to develop the optimal amount of intra-abdominal pressure. Consequently, chronic use of a weight belt will DECONDITION the abdominal muscles' capacity to develop intra-abdominal pressure. This causes a big problem the day you show up to the gym (or work) without a weight belt. For other athletes, especially those involved in contact sports like football and boxing, having deconditioned trunk muscles will subject their lower lumbar discs to considerable stress.

    Because weight belts are usually very wide, they restrict motion in the lumbar spine. When you bend forward during exercises like squats or good mornings, 80 percent of the lumbar motion occurs in the lower two lumbar disks. With the addition of a tightly cinched weight belt, the upper lumbar segments become partially immobilized, forcing the lower two lumbar disks to contribute more than their fair share of the work. This stress accelerates degeneration in these disks, which are the most commonly injured to begin with.

    A weight belt also affects the natural rotation of the lumbar spine, reducing the work of the lumbar stabilizer muscles. This deconditions and destabilizes the lumbar spine, an effect which also accelerates the onset of disk degeneration, destruction and possibly osteoarthritis. Finally, prolonged use of a weight belt can affect your natural diaphragmatic breathing pattern, resulting in overuse of the accessory respiratory muscles. Clinically, this "chest breathing" is associated with tension headaches, poor posture and accelerated degenerative changes in the cervical spine.

    WEANING YOURSELF FROM THE BELT

    If you currently use a weight belt, I suggest weaning yourself from it--don't go cold turkey! You need to retrain and recondition the abdominal mechanism first.

    Start by wearing your belt only when performing lifts of more than 85 percent intensity. After each two weeks, reduce your use to only lifts of more than 90, 95 and 100 percent. As you become more comfortable without the belt you can eventually stop using it altogether (except perhaps in competitions), relying upon and maintaining the body's own protective mechanism.

    Weight belts have long been touted for their protective and even therapeutic qualities. In Joe Weider's book ULTIMATE BODYBUILDING the Master Blaster tells us "A weight lifting belt supports your lower back and abdomen, thereby preventing injuries to the middle of your body. It is particularly necessary to use a weight lifting belt when doing squats, heavy overhead pressing movements, or any type of dead lift or rowing motion."

    The fact is: Prolonged use of weight belts contributes to dysfunction and injury in the lumbar spine. I realize that despite compelling evidence to the contrary, many powerlifters would rather believe their training partners and gym lore and will continue wearing a belt. But the final decision as to wear a belt or not is yours--think carefully before you decide.
    The difference between the freaks and the flock is the ****ing fork!
    You wanna gain weight? Then it's time to squat!

  5. #55
    Super Human kingkrs's Avatar
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    look ma, no belt!

    Olympic gold medalist!
    The difference between the freaks and the flock is the ****ing fork!
    You wanna gain weight? Then it's time to squat!

  6. #56
    i like this guy ^

  7. #57
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    I respect Paul Chek, but A LOT of very knowledgeable people (Mel Siff et. al)did and do disagree with him on this subject.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
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  8. #58
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    I personally find a belt makes my deadlift worse but helps my squat.

    Its not like wearing a belt suddenly means my lower back is nto working. it still working nearly as hard.

    i only use a belt to help my total in powerlift meets. If i was not a powerlifter I would not use it.
    my exprience - joined gym 10 years ago, 6 1/2 years hard weight training exprience.

  9. #59
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xMeat_Headx
    Know what a squat is similar to? Jumping, standing up, running, and walking. Know what deadlifting is similar to? Picking stuff up.

    You've effectively identified why there is such a thing as 'functional' training.



    So what's the point of hitting the weight room at all if you're a strongman? If the actual event training is the only 'functional' part of the training, obviously there's no point in wasting time deadlifts, squatting, pressing, etc.



    The muscles that squats, deadlifts, rows, pullups, bench presses, overhead presses, etc. train are muscles that are used in all athletic events and the stresses of daily life. Thus, strengthening those lifts is building up functional strength. And strongmen wear belts in contests because it allows them to lift more weight...
    Ok, so I guess by your definition everything is functional strength, which means your argument is kinda pointless anyway. And I already stated that the point of working out is to strengthen muscles to facilitate the functions we perform whether it be in everyday life or competition. Reading comprehension is great.

    Are the muscles used in a dumbell kickback used in everyday life? Yup. So that's a great exercise too right? Squats and deadlifts are simply more efficient because you are training more muscles in conjuction.

    But this is a digression of the original argument, where I feel if you say there is no place for a belt in training whatsoever, that's just an ignorant statement. I could care less if one popular dude writes an article, I could find an entire army of competitors and specialists to refute that, but it's so painfully obvious there wouldn't be a point.

    Ugh, I'm hungover and going back to bed.
    Last edited by ElPietro; 03-18-2006 at 09:12 AM.
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  10. #60
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    I f...ing hate belts with a passion. They feel very uncomfortable to me

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by ExtremeAnabolic
    (numbers are mine)

    1. That is true however you moved beyond that topic by saying that the only belt you should use is a dip belt. That was a bit of a sweeping generalization and I and others pointed out that there are times when it MAY be beneficial to wear a belt especially in competition. There is a difference between saying 'I don't wear a belt/I don't think people should wear belts' and saying that "the only belt you should be using is a dip belt for dips and chins" One is opinion the other is advice. You are entitled to your opinion, but when you or anybody else gives what I consider misleading advice I (and others are also entitled to point that out.)

    2. Exactly who said that wearing belts ALL the time was beneficial in this thread? Nobody mentioned that so why are you defending a position that the opposite stance was never taken to? I think we all agree that belts worn all the time are bad, no argument here. What I am disagreeing with is that belts should only be worn when they are dip belts. I think lifting belts should be used for max attempts on the deadlift as well.

    3. I linked to this one, because it shows a pattern. You are disagreeing with some of the most knowledgable members of this forum (E.P., Chris Mason) and giving us no studies or links to back up your statements, just your opinion. Giving your opinion is fine, that's the nature of discussion boards. But openly attacking members who hold different opinions from you, especially if they have not attacked you first is frowned upon here.


    4. What are you on about? Seriously? Where did I ever "cut you up"? I never called you names or attacked your posts. I asked two questions neither of which made up any sort of personal attack. Again like I said in my last post, I am NOT flaming you nor making any sort of personal attack. I would simply like my question (which I asked in my first post on this thread) answered. How about it?

    LOL. Seriously shut up. I didnt even bother reading your numbered list to what you had to say about me. Your numbers even bored me.

  12. #62
    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElPietro
    Ok, so I guess by your definition everything is functional strength, which means your argument is kinda pointless anyway. And I already stated that the point of working out is to strengthen muscles to facilitate the functions we perform whether it be in everyday life or competition. Reading comprehension is great.
    We should have a "functional strength" discussion elsewhere, because it will devolve into semantics, like EVERY OTHER functional strength discussion.

    There are physiological reasons to use and to not use a belt.

    The journal / I live here.

    If I were to start from scratch as a young 13 year old again, I would do every press, squat, and perhaps deadlifts, for my entire career with chains. -- Dan John

  13. #63
    Who me? Chubrock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intensity&Focus
    LOL. Seriously shut up. I didnt even bother reading your numbered list to what you had to say about me. Your numbers even bored me.

    Seriously, dude, you know nothing. As stated previously, you argue with the some of the most intelligent people (if you can call Petey intelligent haha) on these forums, and have yet to show ANYTHING that makes you seem even partially credible. Heck, you won't even take the time to read a response from another member (above quotation). "Intensity and Focus" my ass. You just like to argue.

    Guys, ya'll might as well do as I say, and not as I do, and stop feeding the troll.

    Fuck, fight, or hold the light.

  14. #64
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    Ok, everyone has had a chance to state their opinion, so before this goes any further downhill I think it's a smart move to lock this.

    For past discussions on functional strength or belth use, feel free to search the forums.
    Last edited by ElPietro; 03-18-2006 at 10:20 AM.
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

    Friends don't let friends do dumbell kickbacks. - Me

    ElP is the smartest man in the world. - Gyno Rhino

    A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls. -- Dan Quayle

    If do right, no can defense. -- Mr. Miyagi

    Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey:

    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet. And also, you're drunk.

    Current FFFA Enforcer

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