The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

It’s no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #51
    Banned Slim Schaedle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sCaRz*Of*PaiN
    People always talk about ketone bodies forming in the blood when low carbs are ingested (ketone bodies are not a good replacement for glucose in providing energy for the nervous system and brain). This actually isn't the case. Ketone bodies form after the glucose in the body runs out. Meaning, there are no more amino acids to convert to glucose, thus drawing upon fat for the main source of energy. If the protein intake is high enough, the body can continue converting amine groups to glucose via gluconeogenesis. You want this process to keep up so you'll have glucose for your brain/nervous system/etc.. Ketone bodies are nowhere near as efficient as glucose for supplying energy to the brain. Glucose is essentially "brain food". So if you are going to skimp on carbs, keeping the fat and especially protein higher, you can keep this process from happening. You also want the protein intake higher so the protein won't be sacrified to the body over your muscles.
    And this is a good example of the difference between ideal and essential.

  2. #52
    DeaTH BeFoRe WeaKNeSs sCaRz*Of*PaiN's Avatar
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    The problem is when you're body runs out of glucose that bad side effects start happening.
    "The only easy day was yesterday."

  3. #53
    Iced Earth - Stormrider ArchAngel777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slim Schaedle
    Ideal and essential are two different things.
    Very true and I suppose I should be more clear on that. The point I am trying to convey is that Carbs + Fat + Protein is more optimal for health, living, longevity than simply using Fat + Protein. I guess instead of using essential, I was thinking more on the lines of optimal, to be honest. I suppose some vitamins aren't considered essential either, then.

  4. #54
    Banned Slim Schaedle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchAngel777
    Very true and I suppose I should be more clear on that. The point I am trying to convey is that Carbs + Fat + Protein is more optimal for health, living, longevity than simply using Fat + Protein. I guess instead of using essential, I was thinking more on the lines of optimal, to be honest. I suppose some vitamins aren't considered essential either, then.
    Agreed. All 3 are optimal. Good deal.

  5. #55
    DeaTH BeFoRe WeaKNeSs sCaRz*Of*PaiN's Avatar
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    There are essential forms of carbohydrates. One being fiber, which can't be produced by the body and needs to be ingested from outside sources. If you're not getting enough fiber, your digestive tract will turn to ass. Then again, there are others who can't handle fiber very well, but that's usually because they increased their intake too quickly. Generally though, an efficient fiber intake is good for the digestive system and can prevent many digestive diseases.
    Last edited by sCaRz*Of*PaiN; 03-17-2006 at 07:22 PM.
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  6. #56
    Iced Earth - Stormrider ArchAngel777's Avatar
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    Actually, I was just thinking that carbohydrates do play a role in evolution, an important one, I believe. I suppose this is subjective, but generally it is easy to overdose, or rather, overeat on carbs. Therefore, you can store the extra as fat. Perhaps carbs play a dual role, 1) quick energy and 2) storage of extra energy to fat.

    Obviously eating too much protein or too much fat will have the same affect as point #2, but generally eating protein and fat will satisfy your hunger cravings, thus cause you to eat less (possibly). Perhaps carbs was an evolutionary way to create a larger appitite and thus increase body fat (for survival of later on)...

    Yeah, a way long shot... But it has just as good as a chance as any of those conspiracy theories

  7. #57
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  8. #58
    DeaTH BeFoRe WeaKNeSs sCaRz*Of*PaiN's Avatar
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    ^^^

    That doesn't help anything and this has been a good discussion so I wouldn't want it to be locked.
    "The only easy day was yesterday."

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by sCaRz*Of*PaiN
    ^^^

    That doesn't help anything and this has been a good discussion so I wouldn't want it to be locked.

    Why would it be locked? That is a old thread. I merely showed that the OP's question had been asked before as regards Atkins. He asked if Atkins were safe. In the link I provided there are other links which talk about Atkins and point out the negatives of such a diet.
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 03-18-2006 at 12:15 AM.

  10. #60
    DeaTH BeFoRe WeaKNeSs sCaRz*Of*PaiN's Avatar
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    Ok. Just worried me is all. I'm tired. :/
    "The only easy day was yesterday."

  11. #61
    C.S.C.S. ddegroff's Avatar
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    man what tells me CHO is essential is after 4hrs of hard class, my head hurts and I'm so tired. This is my body telling me I've run out of glucose. now yes i could just eat some protein or fat and my body would use it for energy. But my brain loves the glucose.

    just my .02, what you guys discussed was very interesting.
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  12. #62
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
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    Having actually DONE the Atkins diet (and not just read horror stories about it, or just lived on bacon), I can tell you that I had no trouble concentrating while in ketosis, and I'm an analyst - I'm doing spreadsheet and database work all day at work. In fact, it was amazing - I just didn't seem to run out of steam. First three days were nasty, then ... fine.

    I stayed in ketosis for just under a year.

    No problems at all.

  13. #63
    DeaTH BeFoRe WeaKNeSs sCaRz*Of*PaiN's Avatar
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    ^^^

    That's your personal experience and can't be generalized. But I'm glad it worked for you.
    "The only easy day was yesterday."

  14. #64
    C.S.C.S. ddegroff's Avatar
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    yeah well Built you tend to set the standard for everything!

    Like everything, its personal.
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  15. #65
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
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    Well, like I said, I actually read the book and followed it to the letter.

    I have belonged to a number of lowcarb support boards, and this is overwhelmingly the response of most of the people whose experiences I've read on those forums. I also mod a board which is largely populated by people who don't handle carbs very well, and who generally respond better to a lower carb approach - many of us started out on Atkins.

    Just like how we get "all that protein is going to kill your kidneys" for the way WE eat, I think Atkins gets a bad rap from people who haven't actually tried it, properly, by reading the book. Done properly, it's a very healthy diet. Lots of greens, plenty of protein, healthy fat, and as much carb as the individual can "tolerate". The goal is to eventually eat as much carb as your body lets you without messing you up (in the sense of food cravings and appetite control).

  16. #66
    C.S.C.S. ddegroff's Avatar
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    I'm actually writing a paper on the Atkins diet for one of my nutrition classes. When I took the topic, I did it because I thought it was the most worthless diet out there. Now with the way I'm eating right now and what I hear from you and around here, it might not be that bad. This country is carb hungry like crazy (i admit i can be one of those at times). I'm going to pick up the book this week to actually see what the diet is all about. My presentation at the end of the semester is really going to blow peoples minds (i just hope the teacher sees the reasoning and so on).
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  17. #67
    DeaTH BeFoRe WeaKNeSs sCaRz*Of*PaiN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Built
    Well, like I said, I actually read the book and followed it to the letter.

    I have belonged to a number of lowcarb support boards, and this is overwhelmingly the response of most of the people whose experiences I've read on those forums. I also mod a board which is largely populated by people who don't handle carbs very well, and who generally respond better to a lower carb approach - many of us started out on Atkins.

    Just like how we get "all that protein is going to kill your kidneys" for the way WE eat, I think Atkins gets a bad rap from people who haven't actually tried it, properly, by reading the book. Done properly, it's a very healthy diet. Lots of greens, plenty of protein, healthy fat, and as much carb as the individual can "tolerate". The goal is to eventually eat as much carb as your body lets you without messing you up (in the sense of food cravings and appetite control).
    Agreed. =)
    "The only easy day was yesterday."

  18. #68
    Wrecker of Homes d'Anconia's Avatar
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    Okay first things first. Assuming one believes in evolution, even if/when we were primarily hunter/gatherers, that does not mean that there were no carbs around and that we ate no carbs. If a caveman saw a nice plant with strawberries over it I'd put my money on him eating it. If items that hold carbs are around and can be utilized for energy then why wouldn't the human body try to take advantage of it?
    I do believe that the human body runs mostly off of protein and fats though, since when we were hunter/gatherers it would make sense that protein and fat would be high in our diets but carbs wouldn't be as high.
    ArchAngel I'm sure you could find plenty of studies for people who have eaten very small amounts of carbs for extended periods of time but I would wonder whether there is someone out there who hasn't eaten at least a few grams of carbs within the last few years... it just isn't very likely at all. I would think that foods would have to be seriously altered (chemically or some sort of refining process) to get rid of 100% of the carbs in them.

    BTW I was actually thinking about the whole hunter/gatherer and carb/protein/fat thing the other day. Do most nuts and other 'gathered' foods tend not to go bad as quickly or perhaps are more frequently in season than other carb-loaded foods (I'm talking about ones in the wild)? I don't remember most nuts being able to get spoiled whereas fruits get spoiled quite easily; is this because most nuts are oil-based (at least I think they are) while fruits are water-based? Kinda random but I got in a slight argument with a client where she was telling me that the high protein and fat for humans because of hunter/gatherer evolution didn't make as much sense because fruits (carb-loaded) are in season just as often as nuts (fat/protein-loaded) are. Do nuts really even have a season that's the only time they naturally show up on their trees/plants? And nuts don't go bad, at least for a very long time, right?

    Edit: Oh yeah, and animals don't really go out of season. I guess sometimes in the winter they get a little scarce but a lot of them are still around (especially the fish).
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  19. #69
    Senior Member TheGimp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatrb38
    If a caveman saw a nice plant with strawberries over it I'd put my money on him eating it.
    Exactly:

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGimp
    Carbohydrates are a non-essential macronutrient. It is only since our ancestors made the transition from hunter-gatherers to farmers that they became a significant part of our diets.
    Last edited by TheGimp; 03-18-2006 at 04:19 AM.

  20. #70
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    I guess it depends on the context of 'essential':

    a) It's not essential for you to EAT carbs because your body can produce them

    b) They are essential BECAUSE your body produces them.

  21. #71
    Toughest Man in the World Bruise Brubaker's Avatar
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    I'm curious to what degree there is a correlation between people having trouble with carbs and people having intestinal parasites or other pathogenic overgrowth of bacterias and yeasts.

    I find the paleolithic diet very interesting. One of the most important of that diet is the avoidance of grains. Fruits aren't that available in nature, and the fruits found in stores are much more sweeter, due to the specific selection of sweetness. So basically, it is a diet high in meat, veggies and nuts with some fruits.
    http://www.thepaleodiet.com

    I'm currently on a very low carb diet to try and heal my intestines. Don't have any problem with the lack of carbs.

    I think wondering if carbohydrates are essential is a futility, Even someone on a 100% meat diet will have some carbs, especially if he eats liver, in the form of glycogen.

    My conclusion is that nuts are greatly underestimated.

  22. #72
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidelmo
    I guess it depends on the context of 'essential':

    a) It's not essential for you to EAT carbs because your body can produce them

    b) They are essential BECAUSE your body produces them.
    Without arguing semantics, in this context, essential means your body cannot make them. For example, the essential amino acids are the ones you MUST consume.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruise Brubaker
    I'm curious to what degree there is a correlation between people having trouble with carbs and people having intestinal parasites or other pathogenic overgrowth of bacterias and yeasts.

    I find the paleolithic diet very interesting. One of the most important of that diet is the avoidance of grains. Fruits aren't that available in nature, and the fruits found in stores are much more sweeter, due to the specific selection of sweetness. So basically, it is a diet high in meat, veggies and nuts with some fruits.
    http://www.thepaleodiet.com

    I'm currently on a very low carb diet to try and heal my intestines. Don't have any problem with the lack of carbs.

    I think wondering if carbohydrates are essential is a futility, Even someone on a 100% meat diet will have some carbs, especially if he eats liver, in the form of glycogen.

    My conclusion is that nuts are greatly underestimated.
    Interesting points you bring up bruise. I used to get yeast infections ALL THE TIME. Like, from the time I was about four.

    I no longer live truly LOW carb, but it's lower than most, even bulking. I haven't had any candida problems since switching my diet around. They STOPPED when I did Atkins. Never came back.

  23. #73
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    The article even points out that this isolated case isn't an indication of the danger of low/no carb diets.

    Ketoacidosis is usually a result of very high alcohol ingestion, is it not? Not eating carbs will not cause ketoacidosis.

    Essential means the body can not produce it. There are amino acids that are essential, and there are fats that are. Carbs can be produced in the liver from protein, ergo carbs are not essential.

    Optimal is quite different.

    There are certainly individuals who benefit from low/no carb dieting - there is no reason to be dogmatic about this subject.
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  25. #75
    Senior Member mercury's Avatar
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    I think people are forgetting that our ancestors were hunters and gathers before farming. They did take in simple carbs from the fruits and berries they would eat between hunts. This also provided the fiber that we need to keep things moving along. It wasn’t until after farming, that carbs became a major part of our diet. We don’t naturally eat wheat and other grains; we have to process them to a point were they become edible.
    Last edited by mercury; 03-19-2006 at 03:01 PM.
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