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Thread: Losing fat, gaining muscle, at the same time

  1. #26
    Sculpted by Science brickt.'s Avatar
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    To quote Lyle McDonald "You body hates you... or, rather, your body loves you."

    What he means (and what Built was explaining) is that your body doesn't like building muscle at all, because it's metabolically expensive - it takes quite a few calories to maintain muscle.

    However, your body LOVES and I emphasive LOVES to put on fat. You see, to your body, fat is just a source of 'spare food,' that will come in handy when the apocalypse occurs and food becomes extremely scarce.

    So, when you diet, your body would much rather give up muscle than fat (its survival kit) That's why we train heavy, to convince it that that muscle is important, and that its needed. Once that occurs, it'll (hopefully) tend to eat fat for the energy require.
    Poo is also LBM - The Built

  2. #27
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    this is where I am going to disagree with built :O

    I think cardio is good for fat loss because it burnes mostly fat, strengthens your heart so you can go harder in the gym, rest for shorter periods, and recover faster.

    I think that cardio is essential on a bulk or a cut.

  3. #28
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    Hey im new well not that new

    Yeah i think cardio is essential especially if building muscle and losing fat is wanted.

    Go over to www.t-nation.com and look at 20lbs of hollywood muscle that will give you the entire macronutrient breakdown for building muscle and losing fat. Via cycling carbs.

    I like HIIT because it simulates the training of a sprinter, burns more cals over a shorter period of time and your epoc will be greater. Look at sprinters fantastic physique they predominantly train the atp/pc system and thats what you train during hiit.

  4. #29
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    Hey im new well not that new

    Sorry same post twice.

    What would you guys do if you just wanted to slowly bulk aiming for the physique of a mens health cover model such as gregg avedon. Keeping abs. Instead of just getting fat. I did a bulk in dec and added 12lbs 7- 8 lbs of which was lean. Just getting my abs back now. I hate being fat. Not meaning to hijack this thread or anything I would just like some input as it will assist the other person asking a similar question also.
    Last edited by JRX; 03-23-2006 at 08:13 AM.

  5. #30
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildCard
    this is where I am going to disagree with built :O

    I think cardio is good for fat loss because it burnes mostly fat, strengthens your heart so you can go harder in the gym, rest for shorter periods, and recover faster.

    I think that cardio is essential on a bulk or a cut.
    Well, I got to my fattest running 10k 3x a week (170 lbs, 40% bodyfat).

    I got to my leanest doing minimal cardio, dieting carefully, and lifting heavy (130 lbs, 14% bodyfat).

    Cardio burns muscle and fat. And it does nothing to stimulate muscle anabolism/preservation. Look at runners' bodies. Use diet for caloric deficit. Use heavy lifting to preserve LBM. Use cardio for heart health, active recovery, and to create a small caloric deficit to allow for a tiny bit of dietary flexibility. But don't rely upon it for leanness - it's actually quite lousy in this regard.

  6. #31
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    OK uys I'm getting conflicting reports from different people here. I don't want to rush into anything as I don't want to get fat, but I sure as hell don't want to lose any muscle. When people say 'lifting heavy', just how heavy are we talking? I'm doing 25L curls at the moment, but I can't do bench presses above 40lbs( Idont know why), and I'm not really sure how to do squats, or what they'll help with. As for the diet, how easy is it to stick to, and how much 'room' is there for deviation? Sorry to be asking so many questions, I just need to know.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRX
    Yeah i think cardio is essential especially if building muscle and losing fat is wanted.

    Go over to www.t-nation.com and look at 20lbs of hollywood muscle that will give you the entire macronutrient breakdown for building muscle and losing fat. Via cycling carbs.

    I like HIIT because it simulates the training of a sprinter, burns more cals over a shorter period of time and your epoc will be greater. Look at sprinters fantastic physique they predominantly train the atp/pc system and thats what you train during hiit.
    Ok, read a bit of that, but it's a massive article. I'm just worried about taking in 4000 calories, won't I get a belly again, and start getting fat?

  8. #33
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    No read the christian thibadeau diet strategy the carb cycling approach.

    Christian takes the perspective of an endomorph
    Berardi (what you read) Ecto

  9. #34
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    EHHHH? What is an endomorph? So many of theese words are confusing me it's untrue! Also, this carb cycling seems rather complex. Is there anywhere where I can enter my exact personal figures and get a carb cycling diet made up? And, if I stop doing cardio surely I'll get monumentally unfit and won't be able to run around?

  10. #35
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
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    Give me your maint cals, LBM, and whether you wish to maintain, gain, or lose, number of days you like to lift, and some idea as to how high you generally like your proteins and fats, and your carb sensitivity, and I'll run the numbers for you.

  11. #36
    Senior Member seK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickthebassist
    EHHHH? What is an endomorph? So many of theese words are confusing me it's untrue! Also, this carb cycling seems rather complex. Is there anywhere where I can enter my exact personal figures and get a carb cycling diet made up? And, if I stop doing cardio surely I'll get monumentally unfit and won't be able to run around?
    I have plenty of cardio in my routine while I cut, all of which are sports but I don't use it as a means to actually burn cal's. I up the my cal's to compensate for what I am burning when I play. This way I get what I believe is the best of both worlds in that I keep my cardiovascular fitness.

  12. #37
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seK
    I have plenty of cardio in my routine while I cut, all of which are sports but I don't use it as a means to actually burn cal's. I up the my cal's to compensate for what I am burning when I play. This way I get what I believe is the best of both worlds in that I keep my cardiovascular fitness.
    We have a winner! Yes! I do this too for long bike rides in the summer. I overeat on those days to guarantee no caloric deficit from the activity.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Built
    Give me your maint cals, LBM, and whether you wish to maintain, gain, or lose, number of days you like to lift, and some idea as to how high you generally like your proteins and fats, and your carb sensitivity, and I'll run the numbers for you.
    Ok, thanks! Right, here goes:
    Maintenance calories : don't actually know, how do I work it out?
    LBM : 133.3 pounds (I'm around 14% body fat according to the gym scales, but 23% according to my own )
    I want to gain muscle, and lose fat.
    I can lift around 4 days a week.
    As for how high I like my proteins, fats and carbs I really don't know. I do eat a lot of chicken, tuna, and bread, but avoid saturated fats(but I do eat a lot of low fat yoghurt). Hope that helps, sorry if I seem a bit dumb.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Built
    We have a winner! Yes! I do this too for long bike rides in the summer. I overeat on those days to guarantee no caloric deficit from the activity.
    Ahh, that sounds good. I play a lot of cricket in summer, and I take it pretty seriously, so I have to be able to run about a lot without tireing. Also, a friend of mine just showed me this link:
    http://www.skippypodar.net/Fitness/carbcycling.html

  15. #40
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
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    Nick - you'll need to track your food on fitday for a bit. Do it for a week and send me the info I requested in a PM and I'll set you up.

  16. #41
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    Yikes, it ays im eating over 3000 calories a day.......today I ate 1 bowl of cereal(nut clusters with skimmed milk), a ceral bar(or 2, can't remember), a bannana, a salad(coleslaw, cous cous, 1 thin slice of chicken, a mixture of beans and carrots in a vinegar dressing, and half a baguette roll), 1 very small bottle of milk, an apple, 1.5 pints of protein shake( made about 2 pints, with 3 soup spoons of nesquik bannana milkshake powder, 3 spoons of skimmed milk powder, and just over 1 pint of milk.....it froths up and appears to make more liquid, due to the amount of air whisking it all takes in), 1 curry with Cashew Masala sauce and rice. How is that 3000 calories?

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  18. #43
    considering lipo Skinny Fat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickthebassist
    Yikes, it ays im eating over 3000 calories a day.......today I ate 1 bowl of cereal(nut clusters with skimmed milk), a ceral bar(or 2, can't remember), a bannana, a salad(coleslaw, cous cous, 1 thin slice of chicken, a mixture of beans and carrots in a vinegar dressing, and half a baguette roll), 1 very small bottle of milk, an apple, 1.5 pints of protein shake( made about 2 pints, with 3 soup spoons of nesquik bannana milkshake powder, 3 spoons of skimmed milk powder, and just over 1 pint of milk.....it froths up and appears to make more liquid, due to the amount of air whisking it all takes in), 1 curry with Cashew Masala sauce and rice. How is that 3000 calories?
    Well, it's a lot of milk, which helps. It's also a lot of carbs. You're probably going to want to do better than a slice of chicken and a protein shake for your protein intake.

    Don't ask for a lighter load. Ask for a stronger back.


  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Built
    And you want to maintain there, or drop a bit?
    Well, I'd like to get it so I only take in the calories I need, including the calories for muscle building. Is 3000+ calories about right for muscle building? Also, is the website I posted a link to a good guide for me to start using carb cycles?

  20. #45
    considering lipo Skinny Fat's Avatar
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    That's why you need to figure out your maintenance calories. We all have different metabolisms, so if you figure out how many calories a day you can eat without gaining or losing weight, you've found it. And the only way to do that is to track your calories over a period of time and compare your weight over the same period.

    Don't ask for a lighter load. Ask for a stronger back.


  21. #46
    Skinny Fatass
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    Quote Originally Posted by Built
    - Signed, the (currently) fatassed bulking chick.

    Any current pics? I'd like to see this "fatassed bulking chick" you speak of, so I can understand your definition of such, in relation to your avatar.

  22. #47
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
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    I had planned some for the end of bulk that was planned for the end of March, but this back injury means I lost size. I'll get some pix at the end of April, before I start my cut.

  23. #48
    Senior Member smalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildCard
    I have absolutely no idea, but the study I read said that people who were put on a high protein, lower carb diet gained 2 lbs of muscle and lost 7 lbs of fat on average over a 6 week period.

    maybe the body recognizes that it is losing fat fast and not restoring it so since it is in positive nitrogen balance decides to convert some of the protein into muscle. I dont know

    Dont post things you know very little about. People on these boards are very impressionable and may actually take what you have to say as true. I'm willing to bet that study was done on sedentary overweight individuals. Thus your comparing apples to oranges.

    If you are very small, weak and fat then gaining muscle while losing fat is possible although still very very slow and hard to do.
    Last edited by smalls; 03-24-2006 at 11:57 PM.
    Diet is key, the calorie is king

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  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skinny Fat
    That's why you need to figure out your maintenance calories. We all have different metabolisms, so if you figure out how many calories a day you can eat without gaining or losing weight, you've found it. And the only way to do that is to track your calories over a period of time and compare your weight over the same period.
    I tried on Fitday but it was quite complex, and may have been over reading the amount of calories I was taking in........short of putting in custom foods on everything, weighing very ounce I eat, and spending 2-3 hours a night typing it all in, there's no way I can track it absolutely accurately. I'd say, as a rough estimate, my weight has stayed the same for around 2 months at about 155lbs, and I don't eat huge amounts, so I'd say it's between 2000 and 2500.

  25. #50
    Risk10k Clifford Gillmore's Avatar
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    You need to put that effort in. If it takes you 2-3 hours, then do it for 2-3 hours - Or you just don't want it enough.

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