The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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Thread: Clean??

  1. #1
    Senior Member kate's Avatar
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    Clean??

    is chocolate considered clean?

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  3. #2
    Senior Member getfit's Avatar
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    dark chocolate
    You will soon see Getfit in OngII Flying Knee Thingys of Doom see if the feisty greek can survive the kicks of Steel Leg From Shaolin Soccer,Dim Mak(def touch) from ChungLee,and Flying Crane by Daniel-san-El Pietro

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  4. #3
    SFW! drew's Avatar
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    As long as you don't drop it on the floor.

    If you've dropped it on the floor, I'll still eat it.

    Stats: Age: 34 Weight: 205 Height: 5'6"
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  5. #4
    C.S.C.S. ddegroff's Avatar
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    5 second rule...

    If it fits into your daily cals you should be good. like getfit said make sure its dark, more anti-oxidents
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  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddegroff
    If it fits into your daily cals you should be good. like getfit said make sure its dark, more anti-oxidents
    I dont agree with this, a calorie is not a calorie this debate is been done many times. He was asking about eating clean and chocolate is definatly not clean, no matter how you try to justify it. I'm not saying you shouldn't eat a little here or there but its not considered clean.

  7. #6
    Iced Earth - Stormrider ArchAngel777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gator
    I dont agree with this, a calorie is not a calorie this debate is been done many times. He was asking about eating clean and chocolate is definatly not clean, no matter how you try to justify it. I'm not saying you shouldn't eat a little here or there but its not considered clean.
    But is it dirty?

  8. #7
    Senior Member getfit's Avatar
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    You will soon see Getfit in OngII Flying Knee Thingys of Doom see if the feisty greek can survive the kicks of Steel Leg From Shaolin Soccer,Dim Mak(def touch) from ChungLee,and Flying Crane by Daniel-san-El Pietro

    Spray it with windex greek!-the famous El Pietro

    You be quiet or i'll clean and press your narrow francophone self-Callahan

    Lift for gains,not glory.Control your ego and the weight

    What a strong girl! This leads me to believe you can severly injure most of the male population-Nick Hatfield

    You're blazing white hot,anyone ever tell you that? Sometimes i think you have fingers faster then Superman when it comes to posts on WBB forums.
    Hot in terms of both speed and... well new hotness- Stash

    gain 50lbs-Anthony

  9. #8
    Iced Earth - Stormrider ArchAngel777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by getfit
    Personally, I think it is fine in small amounts, however, articles can be found all over supporting things that are generally not healthy.

    This applies to a lot of things though... Find something that is bad, then type in www.google.com and search for "_____ really bad for you?" and you will probably find an article to say that it is good for you, in some way... LOL...

    But honestly, perceived bad things in moderation is fine... Just don't go around eating the whole bag of dove chocolates... mmmm, havn't had one of those in 5 months now.
    Last edited by ArchAngel777; 03-22-2006 at 10:28 AM.

  10. #9
    Senior Member getfit's Avatar
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    most definently,as said, everything in moderation.

    Dark chocolate is still good though huh?
    You will soon see Getfit in OngII Flying Knee Thingys of Doom see if the feisty greek can survive the kicks of Steel Leg From Shaolin Soccer,Dim Mak(def touch) from ChungLee,and Flying Crane by Daniel-san-El Pietro

    Spray it with windex greek!-the famous El Pietro

    You be quiet or i'll clean and press your narrow francophone self-Callahan

    Lift for gains,not glory.Control your ego and the weight

    What a strong girl! This leads me to believe you can severly injure most of the male population-Nick Hatfield

    You're blazing white hot,anyone ever tell you that? Sometimes i think you have fingers faster then Superman when it comes to posts on WBB forums.
    Hot in terms of both speed and... well new hotness- Stash

    gain 50lbs-Anthony

  11. #10
    C.S.C.S. ddegroff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gator
    I dont agree with this, a calorie is not a calorie this debate is been done many times. He was asking about eating clean and chocolate is definatly not clean, no matter how you try to justify it. I'm not saying you shouldn't eat a little here or there but its not considered clean.
    I guess we disagree on what eating clean is. I see it as eating the correct macro's for your caloric goal (cutting or bulking). I feel eating clean means no pizza, fast food, etc. A piece of dark chocolate is full of anti-oxidants.
    What if he eats a piece post-workout, all those sugars would go to good use. Now i'm not saying saying a whold chocolate bar but one piece isnt going to hurt.
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  12. #11
    Banned Slim Schaedle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gator
    I dont agree with this, a calorie is not a calorie this debate is been done many times.
    Even though the combination/forms of macronutrients in a particular food may not be optimal for one's overall goals, a calorie is a calorie.

    A molecule of glucose is a molecule of glucose.

    It doesn't change because you name it something different or combine it with other foods, ingredients, etc.

    Getfit is right to say that if it fits into your daily breakdown, then it's alright.

    Maybe not optimal, but that term is up for debate too.

  13. #12
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    When I make my own bars I use unsweetened dark chocolate and then add honey and evaporated cane sugar juice.

    I get noticeably more energy and no crash VS the chocolate sweetened with refined sugar.

    Quote Originally Posted by gator
    Chocolate is definatly not clean
    Whats wrong with it specifically?

    If your answer is refined sugar I'm with you all the way.

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slim Schaedle
    Even though the combination/forms of macronutrients in a particular food may not be optimal for one's overall goals, a calorie is a calorie.
    Very wrong, 10 grams of carbs almost means nothing considering how many types of carbs there are. If your eating 200 grams of good carbs a day, whole wheat bread and oats, vs 200 grams of HI GI carbs and Hi sucrose carbs you aren't going to get the same results. If you eat 500 calories of straight sugar in 1 sitting vs 500 calories of healty fats in one sitting you will again get no where near the same results.

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holto


    Whats wrong with it specifically?

    If your answer is refined sugar I'm with you all the way.
    thats the main reason. I'm starting to shy away from dextrose and most simple sugars now the more I learn about things. I think bodytype is a big consideration when talking about sugars. I'm a meso and can gain weight and lose weight easily so I'm now trying to cut back on my refined sugar intake.

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by gator
    I'm now trying to cut back on my refined sugar intake.
    Yep.

    This is why I make anything that has a fair bit of sugar from scratch.

    I'm working on a recipe for organic spelt breadsticks.

  17. #16
    Iced Earth - Stormrider ArchAngel777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by getfit
    most definently,as said, everything in moderation.

    Dark chocolate is still good though huh?
    Indeed.


    As for the argument below... A calorie isn't a calorie? Hmmm, I have a hard time believing that... Let me explain why.

    Your body needs X amount of energy per day to survive. So, lets say your body needs 3,000 calories to maintain your current weight. So, you decide to take in 1,000 from table sugar alone, another 500 from fat and 500 from protein. You have a deficit of 1,000 calories... Net weight loss of, what? two pounds per week.

    How does that change if you decide to eat 1,000 calories of potatoes instead of that sugar? You still have a 1,000 calorie deficit. Since a calorie is a unit of energy, that is the common denominator in all foods eaten. That is, as we know it, energy in a pure form applied across all levels. I guess I fail to see how a calorie isn't a calorie unless we are talking about not meeting certain protein and fat needs. Meaning, you at least need to take in enough protein for the bodies turnover of it, but anything after that gets used for energy... So why does it matter if it is high GI or not? So long as you can control your appetite, you are still 1,000 calories under your intake. That is lost energy and that has to translate into weight loss, presumably fat loss if you are taking in enough fats and protein and are lifting.

    The only way I could conceive that a calorie isn't a calorie is if one type of calorie (say from table sugar) causes the bodies metabolism to slow down... If that has been proven, then the issue is settled I guess. But if that hasn't been proven, then I'd pretty much be confident with my answer above.

    To clarify better of what I am saying. If you are getting your daily need of protein and fats, then whatever your extra calories are, it shouldn't matter where they come from, since they are turned into energy anyway. So after a certain point, calories don't matter at all, as far as energy goes. Perhaps there is something to be said for health on the matter, but I doubt on calories.

    In addition, I also don't believe that Carbs + Fat meals make you fat. That has been stated by Berardi and every others. Now, I am nowhere near as qualified as someone as Berardi, but even he admits that he can't prove the theory and it could be just that, a "theory". So, he could be right, but at this point, I don't believe it.


    Edit ** As for the GI/GL business... I have always been under the impression that is for appetite control, not for weight control. If your GL load is high, typically it is said to spike insulin to store fat. Now, whether it is stored as far or not doesn't matter, because the fat itself is used to fuel's the bodies weight loss during a calorie deficit anyway. It just moving from one area to the other, essentially. Perhaps a wasted step, but if that is the case, the body would use more energy converting it back and forth than it would have in using the energy in the first place, rather than storing it. So hypothetically, you burn more calories from storing it, and then bringing it out of storage. Whatever the case, I only care about the GL for appetite control, nothing more. Even then, it only matters if you are eating only carbs for the meal, since fats/protein slow down the digestion/assimilation process.
    Last edited by ArchAngel777; 03-22-2006 at 12:40 PM.

  18. #17
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
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    <- ate chocolate every day of her cut down to 14% last summer.

    Not a LOT of chocolate, but whatever I could afford the calories for.

    I really hate the term "clean" for food. Makes it sound like a religion.

  19. #18
    Iced Earth - Stormrider ArchAngel777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Built
    <- ate chocolate every day of her cut down to 14% last summer.

    Not a LOT of chocolate, but whatever I could afford the calories for.

    I really hate the term "clean" for food. Makes it sound like a religion.
    I classify foods differently now... I certainly think there is dirty foods (like fast food!) but for the most part, I look at them like this:

    Will this food cause me to lose control of my diet? Will it give me a raging appitite? Will I easily become addicted?
    That is basically my take on all foods... So, as a result, I ditch things I know the cause me to "binge" or so on... For me, that means no Soda, Chocolate (cocoa is fine though) table sugar, etc... I don't see those foods as "dirty" perse, but I do deem them as unhealthy things to eat for myself to attain the goals I want. Others will have difficult foods that they need to avoid... Some people are alcoholics on this board and can't go a week without binge drinking, etc... That is why for those people, they need to stay away from it. Everyone has their poison.
    Last edited by ArchAngel777; 03-22-2006 at 12:48 PM.

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    This is in responce to ArchAngel.

    Lets say you eat 500 cals of oats and 500 cals of dextrose and you just sit on your butt all day. With the oats it's a slow sustained release of nutrients to your body. With dextrose it's a quick insulin spike, and once your glycogen levels are back up the excess sugar has no where to go but into fat storage. A calorie is definatly not a calorie


    Also your talk about GI and your last paragraph is kinda non sense, I would just suggest you do some reasearch on it.
    Last edited by gator; 03-22-2006 at 01:20 PM.

  21. #20
    Iced Earth - Stormrider ArchAngel777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gator
    This is in responce to ArchAngel.

    Lets say you eat 500 cals of oats and 500 cals of dextrose and you just sit on your butt all day. With the oats it's a slow sustained release of nutrients to your body. With dextrose it's a quick insulin spike, and once your glycogen levels are back up the excess sugar has no where to go but into fat storage. A calorie is definatly not a calorie
    That still does not explain the difference. On a cut, the calories have to come from somewhere! So whether 200 of those are used and then the other 300 are stored, they are going to have to be pulled from storage to keep up with the energy needs of the body. Do yourself a favor, get a chalk board and draw a flow chart.

    The body needs X amount of calories to sustain its weight. Whether you dump 2000 of those calories in right away (thus, lets pretend 1,500 go to storage) and then another person eats those 2,000 over the course of the day doesn't matter in the end. Because 1,500 of those calories have to be removed from storage to sustain the bodies calorie needs in the first scenario anyway. So, tell me why it matters on a cut again? Also, it wouldn't matter on a bulk either... Extra calories are brought in and stored. So in either situation, I don't see how it makes a difference whether each meal the body stores 200 calories over 5 meals or wether one big meal stores 1,000... In the end, there is 1,000 units of energy being stored as fat...
    Last edited by ArchAngel777; 03-22-2006 at 01:29 PM.

  22. #21
    Iced Earth - Stormrider ArchAngel777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gator
    Also your talk about GI and your last paragraph is kinda non sense, I would just suggest you do some reasearch on it.
    It quite possibly in non-sense. Though from what I have studied and read over the years seems to be what I wrote. I could be wrong, but I guess I would have to be pointed out where I am wrong exactily. Would you be so kind to point it out without being so condescending?

    Thanks.
    Last edited by ArchAngel777; 03-22-2006 at 01:32 PM.

  23. #22
    Senior Member Canadian Crippler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchAngel777
    That still does not explain the difference. On a cut, the calories have to come from somewhere! So whether 200 of those are used and then the other 300 are stored, they are going to have to be pulled from storage to keep up with the energy needs of the body. Do yourself a favor, get a chalk board and draw a flow chart.

    The body needs X amount of calories to sustain its weight. Whether you dump 2000 of those calories in right away (thus, lets pretend 1,500 go to storage) and then another person eats those 2,000 over the course of the day doesn't matter in the end. Because 1,500 of those calories have to be removed from storage to sustain the bodies calorie needs in the first scenario anyway. So, tell me why it matters on a cut again? Also, it wouldn't matter on a bulk either... Extra calories are brought in and stored. So in either situation, I don't see how it makes a difference whether each meal the body stores 200 calories over 5 meals or wether one big meal stores 1,000... In the end, there is 1,000 units of energy being stored as fat...
    Amount of calories determine if you gain or lose weight

    Types of calories determine what type of weight you gain or lose.

    You're right, if you eat 1500 calories of sugar in one sitting and 500g chicken in another vs. 2000 calories of good food spread throughout the day, the weightloss you see on the scale will be the exact same. The actual lean mass you retain will be less however.
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  24. #23
    Iced Earth - Stormrider ArchAngel777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canadian Crippler
    Amount of calories determine if you gain or lose weight

    Types of calories determine what type of weight you gain or lose.

    You're right, if you eat 1500 calories of sugar in one sitting and 500g chicken in another vs. 2000 calories of good food spread throughout the day, the weightloss you see on the scale will be the exact same. The actual lean mass you retain will be less however.
    If the body is getting all the protein requirements it needs, why would one lose more LBM?

  25. #24
    C.S.C.S. ddegroff's Avatar
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    i'm with archangel on this one. GI scale tells us how quickly the body will use it, so for hunger control you would want to eat low GI carbs so that they are broken down slower. High GI carbs are good when you need the them the quickest (ie during exercise or pwo). a calorie is a calorie, i dont see how it could be any different.

    also the reason eating 500cals of sugar vs. eating 500g of oats is going to be the same is its 500 total cals. Even if you sit on your ass all day its still 500 total cals. The only difference is how fast your body uses those 500 cals. Let me ask you this, if i only eat 500cals from sugar and sit on my ass all day am i going to get fat? (meaning 500cals total/day)
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  26. #25
    Iced Earth - Stormrider ArchAngel777's Avatar
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    BTW, Crippler, you sort of took me out of context above. I never said that macros were not important. I believe those ARE important. But within the macronutrient, concerning carbohydrates, then it doesn't matter whether it is from sugar or oats or any other carb for that matter.

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