The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    on the road to a 1.2ktotal
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    Lat Pulls and grip

    okay i'm really sorry if this has been posted before but this issue has been bugging the crap out of me ever since i first started adding pulldowns into my routine.

    i go wide grip on pulldowns and i always find my forearms giving out very quickly. like i barely feel anything in my lats. i know that feel has nothing to do with the actual rate of muscle growth, but i'd like to feel some pain in my lats and not in my forearms!

    a guy suggested that i try close grip pulldowns with an underhand grip. although this is a heck lot easier than the wide grip over hand grip pulldowns, i actually feel it in my lats more and less in my forearms. this is weird because i always thought that an overhand grip was better for hitting the lats hard.

    i've always had this problem with pull-ups too. my freakin forearms give out. so the question is, do i just have a weak-assed grip or am i doing something wrong here? my lats are definitely a weakpoint and i'd like to change that and get a mean back.

    yeah it really pisses me off how a lot of my "pull" lifts are ruined by my forearms giving out. i mean i work them out too but they get hit really hard and really fast to the point where i can barely lift like 100 pounds. any help would be appreciated. thanks!
    19 yrs old
    5'9'' @ 165 lbs
    bf%: ?

    BB Bench Press: 275 lbs
    ATG Squat: 355 lbs
    BB Deadlift: 335 lbs

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  3. #2
    Senior Member deeder's Avatar
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    Keep working at it man... Your grip will catch up eventually... It seems to be a weak point for alot of lifters. You could give straps a try.. But be sure to only use them when you ABSOLUTELY need them otherwise your grip will never progress.

    When you're doing lat pulldowns be sure that you are pulling with your back and not your arms to much. I like to try to concentrate on my elbows... Pull through with them and you should feel it in your lats.

    Underhand grip will be easier because it involves your biceps more. You might still prefer those for building lats because this generally allows you to do more weight.

    I find that technique really counts on pulldowns and chinups... If I'm not concentrating on how I pull I feel it in my arms more than my back.
    Full Powerlifting
    Squat - 595lbs -- 270kg -- Dec. 31, '09 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Bench - 374lbs -- 170kg -- Dec 20, '08 (@100kg class)
    Dead - 589lbs -- 267.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Total: 1537lbs -- 697.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)
    Bench Only -- 358lbs -- 162.5kg -- Nov. 25, '07 (Provincial Record @ 90kg class)
    Bench Only -- 376lbs -- 171kg -- Jan. 26, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)

  4. #3
    on the road to a 1.2ktotal
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    ahh thanks a lot for the encouragement bro!
    yeah i always find myself leaning back a bit and using a lot of forearms instead of lats, maybe it's the wide grip?

    yeah man i'm definitely gonna work on the form and as a matter of fact that's what i've been doing my past few workouts; lowering the weight and pumping more reps.

    thanks for the input!
    19 yrs old
    5'9'' @ 165 lbs
    bf%: ?

    BB Bench Press: 275 lbs
    ATG Squat: 355 lbs
    BB Deadlift: 335 lbs

  5. #4
    mrelwooddowd Patz's Avatar
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    To comment on grip and forearms...

    Back about a year ago, my grip was awesome. I have tiny hands (7in base to tip), and I had no trouble holding my max deads.

    When I stoppe working out at home and joined the gym back in December, my grip was much weaker than it had been. I couldn't figure it out.

    Now, it's stronger than EVER. My max dead is 365, and I dont' even reverse my left hand until AFTER I lift 315 with double-overhand. Once I reverse it, it's never even come open on me a bit.

    The reason it's strong again?

    Back when it was good, I was doing one-arm DB rows on the bench. I hold that dumbbell at one end of the handle, which ends up being harder on my grip due to the constant unbalance. It's easier on my movement, though, because it doesn't try to tilt--it's already tilted from the get-go.

    At some point back then, I quit the DB rows and went to barbell rows. When I joined the gym, I stuck with the barbell up until about 2 months ago. I'm rowing 90's for 8 reps now, and I swear my grip NEVER fails me. I keep moving my reversal point up when I feel it's time, and it's just stronger and stronger every week. My tiny hands are starting to look like Dorian Yates' back! LOL

    If you aren't doing some pulling with the DB's, I would reccommend it. Those nerf grips on the pulldown don't let you really set-in and get the grip tight, making it kinda like holing a captain of crush while you pull down.

    This entire post has no basis in scientific fact, but only my experience. Take it for what it is, but it works for me and I swear I hae the smallest hands on Earth for a guy my size.
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  6. #5
    Senior Member deeder's Avatar
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    You know what they say about guys with small hands....
    Full Powerlifting
    Squat - 595lbs -- 270kg -- Dec. 31, '09 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Bench - 374lbs -- 170kg -- Dec 20, '08 (@100kg class)
    Dead - 589lbs -- 267.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Total: 1537lbs -- 697.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)
    Bench Only -- 358lbs -- 162.5kg -- Nov. 25, '07 (Provincial Record @ 90kg class)
    Bench Only -- 376lbs -- 171kg -- Jan. 26, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)

  7. #6
    mrelwooddowd Patz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deeder
    You know what they say about guys with small hands....
    It's not true, biotch.


    Oh wait..yes, I do wear small gloves. Men's, XS to be exact..
    Last edited by Patz; 04-03-2006 at 03:35 PM.
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  8. #7
    Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrelwooddowd
    I do wear small gloves. Men's, XS to be exact..

    ok sally

  9. #8
    C.S.C.S. ddegroff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrelwooddowd
    To comment on grip and forearms...

    Back about a year ago, my grip was awesome. I have tiny hands (7in base to tip), and I had no trouble holding my max deads.

    When I stoppe working out at home and joined the gym back in December, my grip was much weaker than it had been. I couldn't figure it out.

    Now, it's stronger than EVER. My max dead is 365, and I dont' even reverse my left hand until AFTER I lift 315 with double-overhand. Once I reverse it, it's never even come open on me a bit.

    The reason it's strong again?

    Back when it was good, I was doing one-arm DB rows on the bench. I hold that dumbbell at one end of the handle, which ends up being harder on my grip due to the constant unbalance. It's easier on my movement, though, because it doesn't try to tilt--it's already tilted from the get-go.

    At some point back then, I quit the DB rows and went to barbell rows. When I joined the gym, I stuck with the barbell up until about 2 months ago. I'm rowing 90's for 8 reps now, and I swear my grip NEVER fails me. I keep moving my reversal point up when I feel it's time, and it's just stronger and stronger every week. My tiny hands are starting to look like Dorian Yates' back! LOL

    If you aren't doing some pulling with the DB's, I would reccommend it. Those nerf grips on the pulldown don't let you really set-in and get the grip tight, making it kinda like holing a captain of crush while you pull down.

    This entire post has no basis in scientific fact, but only my experience. Take it for what it is, but it works for me and I swear I hae the smallest hands on Earth for a guy my size.
    hmmm... maybe thats my secret. I've always had one-arm db rows in my routine and I've never had a grip strength problem.
    Last edited by ddegroff; 04-03-2006 at 04:35 PM.
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  10. #9
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    it really pisses me off how a lot of my "pull" lifts are ruined by my forearms giving out.
    Your deadlift figure would appear to disagree

  11. #10
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
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    You're feeling the narrow grip in your lats more for a REASON - wide grips de-emphasize lats, placing more pressure instead on the rotator cuff. Avoid them if your goal is lat development.

  12. #11
    on the road to a 1.2ktotal
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    Quote Originally Posted by Built
    You're feeling the narrow grip in your lats more for a REASON - wide grips de-emphasize lats, placing more pressure instead on the rotator cuff. Avoid them if your goal is lat development.
    really!?! i feel it though when i do wide grip chins. well thanks built! alright time to start doing close grip pulldowns. hey i've actually stopped doing those smith chins you suggested a while back b/c i stopped working out for around 1/2 a year and now they're too hard... once i'm back on track though those will be in my routine again.

    and mrelwood dude i have freakin small ass hands too! yeah we wear small gloves! the other thing... it's so not true! geez

    actually i used to do a lot of one arm db rows... maybe i should incorporate those back into my routine. alright guys thanks for all of the helpful input! peace
    19 yrs old
    5'9'' @ 165 lbs
    bf%: ?

    BB Bench Press: 275 lbs
    ATG Squat: 355 lbs
    BB Deadlift: 335 lbs

  13. #12
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
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    Just do the negs on the fakey smith chins. Or do jump chins - assist with a jump to "up", slow neg down.

    You'll feel your lats on the wide grips, but there's no particular advantage to doing them this way, and they can cause a lot of RC problems, particularly if you already have RC problems.

    If you have hammerstrength machines, use the BTN row - but alternate arms, like you're climbing up a wall. This lets you get the advantage of a wider grip, but because it's one arm at a time, you get to really crunch it down, thus avoiding the disadvantaged position of the RC.

    Plus you get to look like Spiderman. How cool is that?

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