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    eek... it's lil' Fixation! fixationdarknes's Avatar
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    Is Crossfit alone enough?

    I haven't lifted for almost 6 months now. And sadly, I still stand without a gym. I decided that instead of not doing anything until I get a gym (which could very well end up being 6 months from now), I would try out some Crossfit.

    I checked out some of the CF training days, and was kind of worried that it might not be enough standing alone as it is...

    e.g. Sunday 060416--> Front Squat 1-1-1-1-1-1-1 reps

    -Is Crossfit supposed to be a standalone training program, or is it meant to be added to an athlete's daily routine that he already does (e.g. martial arts, swimming, rock climbing)?

    -Perhaps I should incorporate more stuff along with Crossfit WoDs? Or is it alone enough to do?
    Last edited by fixationdarknes; 04-16-2006 at 06:56 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatrb38
    I try to visualize that my girlfriend is under the weight and I have to push the weight up to save her. Of course it doesn't work and I just laugh as I think about the weight slowly crushing her bones. Then I remember it's me under the weight and give 200% effort to push it back up.

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    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fixationdarknes
    I haven't lifted for almost 6 months now. And sadly, I still stand without a gym. I decided that instead of not doing anything until I get a gym (which could very well end up being 6 months from now), I would try out some Crossfit.

    *** who needs a gym to work out? ***

    I checked out some of the CF training days, and was kind of worried that it might not be enough standing alone as it is...

    *** it definately is enough for almost anyone ***

    e.g. Sunday 060416--> Front Squat 1-1-1-1-1-1-1 reps

    *** Those a maximal weights, with a goal of a PR ***

    -Is Crossfit supposed to be a standalone training program, or is it meant to be added to an athlete's daily routine that he already does (e.g. martial arts, swimming, rock climbing)?

    *** either one! ***

    -Perhaps I should incorporate more stuff along with Crossfit WoDs? Or is it alone enough to do?

    *** go for it, but just try the WODs for a while ***
    Crossfit is weight training, among other things, and you need some basic weight equipment for many of the WODs.

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    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fixationdarknes
    -Is Crossfit supposed to be a standalone training program, or is it meant to be added to an athlete's daily routine that he already does (e.g. martial arts, swimming, rock climbing)? -Perhaps I should incorporate more stuff along with Crossfit WoDs? Or is it alone enough to do?
    Enough for what? It really depends on your goals. If you are looking to increase your limit strength, then it's probably not the best plan.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
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    Senior Member Anthony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei
    If you are looking to increase your limit strength, then it's probably not the best plan.
    Limit strength in what? I think more people should work on their foundation before trying to focus on specific lifts. But that's just me.....
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    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony
    Limit strength in what?
    Limit strength as in a 1RM.
    I think more people should work on their foundation before trying to focus on specific lifts. But that's just me.....
    I understand your point, but if I was training someone who was weak to begin with and wanted to become a PLer, I certainly wouldn't have them do the WODs.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

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    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei
    someone who was weak to begin with
    This sounds like a perfect candidate for a varied, fitness oriented program like crossfit, even if they wanted to become a powerlifter.

    I wouldn't train a beginner with any sort of specialized program like a powerlifting routine.

    The journal / I live here.

    If I were to start from scratch as a young 13 year old again, I would do every press, squat, and perhaps deadlifts, for my entire career with chains. -- Dan John

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    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MixmasterNash
    This sounds like a perfect candidate for a varied, fitness oriented program like crossfit, even if they wanted to become a powerlifter.

    I wouldn't train a beginner with any sort of specialized program like a powerlifting routine.
    Geez Mix, I figured you knew me better than that. Of course not! Who the hell would put a beginner on a specialized PL program? Or the WoDs as is (edit) for that matter?
    Last edited by Sensei; 04-16-2006 at 07:48 PM.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

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    eek... it's lil' Fixation! fixationdarknes's Avatar
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    Alright I'll try out the WoDs for a while. CF actually sounds really exciting and I can sort of see the benefits they would have.

    I can see my strength, endurance, and GPP increasing...but one question still rises to mind...

    -What if my goal was to get big? Honestly I'm not solely focused on any one particular area at this point, but can one pack on muscle mass from something like CF? The little voice in my head is saying no, because it doesn't seem like enough workload to actually stimulate a whole lot of muscle growth...but I'd like to pose that question to WBB.
    Last edited by fixationdarknes; 04-16-2006 at 07:54 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatrb38
    I try to visualize that my girlfriend is under the weight and I have to push the weight up to save her. Of course it doesn't work and I just laugh as I think about the weight slowly crushing her bones. Then I remember it's me under the weight and give 200% effort to push it back up.

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    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fixationdarknes
    -What if my goal was to get big? Honestly I'm not solely focused on any one particular area at this point, but can one pack on muscle mass from something like CF? The little voice in my head is saying no, because it doesn't seem like enough workload to actually stimulate a whole lot of muscle growth...but I'd like to pose that question to WBB.
    If you eat to caloric surplus and do the WOD's, you'll gain muscle.

    The journal / I live here.

    If I were to start from scratch as a young 13 year old again, I would do every press, squat, and perhaps deadlifts, for my entire career with chains. -- Dan John

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    Senior Member Anthony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei
    Limit strength as in a 1RM.
    If you're a PLer peaking in strength, crossfit won't help your 1RM. But if you're an average joe that does bench and bicep curls, you can be damn certain that crossfit will help your 1RM in a variety of lifts.

    I understand your point, but if I was training someone who was weak to begin with and wanted to become a PLer, I certainly wouldn't have them do the WODs.
    My point is that most people focus on specialized programs way too soon. Crossfit is a GPP program. GPP programs are good. Maybe you view 1-2 of the workouts and think it's all cardio, but we've been through this before. They do a very similar amount of ME work compared to PL programs, ALONG with a bunch of other stuff.
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    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony
    If you're a PLer peaking in strength, crossfit won't help your 1RM. But if you're an average joe that does bench and bicep curls, you can be damn certain that crossfit will help your 1RM in a variety of lifts.
    I never said it was a bad program. You're being a bit defensive don't you think? The OP asked "Is Crossfit enough?" and I believe it depends on your goals - that's it.

    My point is that most people focus on specialized programs way too soon. Crossfit is a GPP program. GPP programs are good. Maybe you view 1-2 of the workouts and think it's all cardio, but we've been through this before. They do a very similar amount of ME work compared to PL programs, ALONG with a bunch of other stuff.
    I never, ever thought it was ALL cardio or strength-endurance. As you've just stated, it is a GPP program and as such it should be commonsense that you are going to need more carefully programmed approach if you more specific goals.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  12. #12
    Senior Member Anthony's Avatar
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    Crossfit is a great foundation, but a lot of people use it in combination with specific sport training. You can't look at one workout and decide whether it is enough or not. Try it for 2 months with honest enthusiasm and dedication and then you'll have your answer.
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    Senior Member Canadian Crippler's Avatar
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    All the "top" crossfitters have deadlifts in the 200s and 300s tops and squat of similar proportions. If you compare strength (maximal strength specifically) and overall size from Crossfitters to guys on this forum, the guys here will win for the most part. If you're looking to be big and strong, I don't recommend Crossfit. I'm not saying it's bad to toss WoD's in, but solely Crossfit won't get you where you want especially since I always remember your goals as being "big and strong".
    "I added some db curls with the pink weights for a bit of a burn." - Rookiebldr

    "im assuming the holy (big) 3 are: curls, bench, legs?" - Saggas

    "had a huge ass burn on my triceps while I was doing those kickbacks, so they'll likely be staying with my exercise program." - Zearoth

    "most of my burned calories coming from something called Basal. Wtf does a leaf have to do with any of it?" - Votorx

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    eek... it's lil' Fixation! fixationdarknes's Avatar
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    So should I still put it on my priority list to get a gym and do weight room work? Honestly I still want to put on some decent size, while increasing strength/endurance/GPP.
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    Age: 20, Height: 5'7", Weight: 165, Deadlift: 405, 9.5" Squat: 230 x 10, Bench: 195 (3x5)

    Quote Originally Posted by fatrb38
    I try to visualize that my girlfriend is under the weight and I have to push the weight up to save her. Of course it doesn't work and I just laugh as I think about the weight slowly crushing her bones. Then I remember it's me under the weight and give 200% effort to push it back up.

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    Senior Member Anthony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fixationdarknes
    So should I still put it on my priority list to get a gym and do weight room work? Honestly I still want to put on some decent size, while increasing strength/endurance/GPP.
    Crossfit IS weight room work. Deadlifts, squats, front squats, overhead squats, cleans, jerks, snatches, chinups, dips, etc. Those are the foundations of the routine. If you eat a calorie surplus and hit the WOD hard, you will gain muscle. After you build a strong foundation (and crossfit will certainly help you build a strong foundation) and you want to improve a few of your lifts even more so, you could incorporate some ME/5x5 work. But starting out, I think CF is plenty.
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    Senior Member Anthony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canadian Crippler
    All the "top" crossfitters have deadlifts in the 200s and 300s tops and squat of similar proportions. If you compare strength (maximal strength specifically) and overall size from Crossfitters to guys on this forum, the guys here will win for the most part. If you're looking to be big and strong, I don't recommend Crossfit. I'm not saying it's bad to toss WoD's in, but solely Crossfit won't get you where you want especially since I always remember your goals as being "big and strong".
    You're talking out of your ass. All the "top" crossfitters rarely post their times. Josh Everett is 185 and has a 575 deadlift. Kelly Moore is 118lbs and pulls over 315. And there are plenty of others.
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    Senior Member Canadian Crippler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony
    You're talking out of your ass. All the "top" crossfitters rarely post their times. Josh Everett is 185 and has a 575 deadlift. Kelly Moore is 118lbs and pulls over 315. And there are plenty of others.
    I was referring to that dude in all those videos. Josh Everett didn't build a 575 deadlift doing Crossfit and we know that. I'm referring to the guys that I see in all the videos, and I remember 2 or 3 of them posting DL maxes at sometime somewhere. One was 365, and that was the guy who did 225 for 15-15-15. The other was high 200s. Those numbers aren't very impressive from maximal strength standpoint.

    Crossfit IS awesome, if it relates to your goals. Should fixation do it? He mentioned to me that he wants to do BJJ I believe, so yes he should. Should I, some member named "WannaBeMassive215" or a guy looking to be big and have big numbers do it? No, we really shouldn't. Atleast not primarily.
    "I added some db curls with the pink weights for a bit of a burn." - Rookiebldr

    "im assuming the holy (big) 3 are: curls, bench, legs?" - Saggas

    "had a huge ass burn on my triceps while I was doing those kickbacks, so they'll likely be staying with my exercise program." - Zearoth

    "most of my burned calories coming from something called Basal. Wtf does a leaf have to do with any of it?" - Votorx

    "We have a lot of people like that on our campus, all hippies and things, that go around preaching against corporations, jocks, preps, accountants, and anyone else that feels the need to shower more than occasionally." - Shankerr

    "Damn man why are some women just so demonic and evil.. its like you wanna get a stake and mallet and an erection at the same time." - WBBIRL

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    Senior Member Meat_Head's Avatar
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    Deadlifts in the 200-300 range? There are some strong sumbiatches in Crossfit, you gotta deadlift pretty big to do **** like 225x20 reps...

    But anyway, if your goal is mass and strength with endurance/gpp, do some basic heavy lifting in addition to Cross Fit. 5x5, 3x3, etc.
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    Senior Member Canadian Crippler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xMeat_Headx
    Deadlifts in the 200-300 range? There are some strong sumbiatches in Crossfit, you gotta deadlift pretty big to do **** like 225x20 reps...
    For one, I don't see many guys there who can do that. Secondly, that usually doesn't equate to a max more than mid or high 300s. Especially for those guys who are used to that rep range, they probably are not even there yet.

    I don't see the point in doing CrossFit unless you're a soldier, cop, firefighter, mixed martial artist, or in certain sports.
    "I added some db curls with the pink weights for a bit of a burn." - Rookiebldr

    "im assuming the holy (big) 3 are: curls, bench, legs?" - Saggas

    "had a huge ass burn on my triceps while I was doing those kickbacks, so they'll likely be staying with my exercise program." - Zearoth

    "most of my burned calories coming from something called Basal. Wtf does a leaf have to do with any of it?" - Votorx

    "We have a lot of people like that on our campus, all hippies and things, that go around preaching against corporations, jocks, preps, accountants, and anyone else that feels the need to shower more than occasionally." - Shankerr

    "Damn man why are some women just so demonic and evil.. its like you wanna get a stake and mallet and an erection at the same time." - WBBIRL

  20. #20
    Risk10k Clifford Gillmore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canadian Crippler
    For one, I don't see many guys there who can do that. Secondly, that usually doesn't equate to a max more than mid or high 300s. Especially for those guys who are used to that rep range, they probably are not even there yet.

    I don't see the point in doing CrossFit unless you're a soldier, cop, firefighter, mixed martial artist, or in certain sports.

    Explosive fitness strength and conditioning. Its a lifestyle training for anyone and everyone, If you want to get fit quickly - crossfit will do it.

  21. #21
    Senior Member Meat_Head's Avatar
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    It covers so many diverse aspects of fitness, I think it could help any athlete or anyone interested in fitness. I agree many of the workouts require quite a bit of training to be effective, but many of them don't. And dude... if you can deadlift 225lbs 20 times, you can max out at 350-400lbs no problem unless you have some very specific muscle fiber distribution. Strength endurance still requires maximal strength.
    Last edited by Meat_Head; 04-16-2006 at 10:39 PM.
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  22. #22
    Senior Member Canadian Crippler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xMeat_Headx
    If you can deadlift 225lbs 20 times, you can max out at 350-400lbs no problem unless you have some very specific muscle fiber distribution. Strength endurance still requires maximal strength.
    I forget the guys name, one of those dudes in all the videos, but he did 225 for 15-15-15 or something like that. It said somewhere his max DL was 365. Not to mention how long these guys have been training for.
    Last edited by Canadian Crippler; 04-16-2006 at 10:42 PM.
    "I added some db curls with the pink weights for a bit of a burn." - Rookiebldr

    "im assuming the holy (big) 3 are: curls, bench, legs?" - Saggas

    "had a huge ass burn on my triceps while I was doing those kickbacks, so they'll likely be staying with my exercise program." - Zearoth

    "most of my burned calories coming from something called Basal. Wtf does a leaf have to do with any of it?" - Votorx

    "We have a lot of people like that on our campus, all hippies and things, that go around preaching against corporations, jocks, preps, accountants, and anyone else that feels the need to shower more than occasionally." - Shankerr

    "Damn man why are some women just so demonic and evil.. its like you wanna get a stake and mallet and an erection at the same time." - WBBIRL

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canadian Crippler
    I forget the guys name, one of those dudes in all the videos, but he did 225 for 15-15-15 or something like that. It said somewhere his max DL was 365. Not to mention how long these guys have been training for.
    I do high rep sets of deads. I've pulled 280 x 10, my max is 320 x 1. I'm pretty sure I can pull 225 all day long. In fact, I may just try it in a week or so. But I guess my point is that I agree with you Crip, and this is based solely on my personal experience. High reps with light weight isn't very impressive.

    So you can pull 225 x 20. Big ****ing deal. Now Chris Mason pulling 400 + x 15 is a big ****ing deal.
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  24. #24
    Senior Member Meat_Head's Avatar
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    That's realistic, but I have to say that if he took the time to do a serious max strength mesocycle, he would add alot of weight to that quickly simply from neural adaptions. I agree that most of those guys have freakish levels of strength/endurence that take a long time to develop, but alot of their workouts can be toned down and altered to fit a beginner.
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  25. #25
    Senior Member Canadian Crippler's Avatar
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    Yeah, it would still depend on his goals though. My pullup numbers flew up when I did CF and they have dropped since I stopped. However my strength in all other aspects slowed down completely as it was an overload to do CF and weight training.
    "I added some db curls with the pink weights for a bit of a burn." - Rookiebldr

    "im assuming the holy (big) 3 are: curls, bench, legs?" - Saggas

    "had a huge ass burn on my triceps while I was doing those kickbacks, so they'll likely be staying with my exercise program." - Zearoth

    "most of my burned calories coming from something called Basal. Wtf does a leaf have to do with any of it?" - Votorx

    "We have a lot of people like that on our campus, all hippies and things, that go around preaching against corporations, jocks, preps, accountants, and anyone else that feels the need to shower more than occasionally." - Shankerr

    "Damn man why are some women just so demonic and evil.. its like you wanna get a stake and mallet and an erection at the same time." - WBBIRL

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