The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Wannabebig Member
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    Gain Strength/ Maintain Lightweight

    Ok this will seem a tad strange to you massive folk over this side of the internet forum world but I am a cyclist :evillaugh lol. I ride anywhere between 400-700km's a week, I am 5 ft 11 and weigh 120 pounds (minimum race weight) yet I train a lil higher. I would like to think my cardio and endurance aren't too shabby and my power is constantly improving as i move up the grades in races...eventually i would like to become a proffesional. thats the intro.

    Over at http://www.cyclingforums.com/t336308.html there is a very interesting thread on the effects of weight training on endurance and power.
    It seems weight training can be detrimental for one major reason, gaining weight (hypertrophy), ever tried riding a bicycle up a 5km plus hill? trust me weight= bad!!! I do believe however that if I can gain a bit of strength into my puny cyclist body that I will have a better sprint at the end of races...PROVIDING I DONT HYPERTROPHY IN WHICH CASE I WONT MAKE IT TO THE END OF THE RACE lol.

    Even for a cyclist i am light and I definitely don't want to give that advantage away after all I am an endurance athlete...do you guys have any ideas on gaining strength/ strength endurance and still staying light. I have heard there are two options...massive weights and very low reps 1-2 or heaps of reps and low weight (body weight) ie. push ups, crunches, reverse dips, step ups, calf raises etc etc...

    I would really appreciate your thoughts on this issue because in the cycling world atleast this is a VERY HOT!!! issue at the moment.

    By the way dont you ripped beasts forget two very important parts of your body: heart and lungs, sorry couldn't help myself, I AM a cyclist after all.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member KevinStarke's Avatar
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    I lift heavy and havnt gained weight in a while. Its all about what you eat really.

  4. #3
    Mint
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinStarke
    Its all about what you eat really.
    That's the truth.

    You will not experience hypertrophy without eating enough to support growth.
    "To make a big training like Dimas, you can not be a pussy." - Christos Iakovou

    prepare yourself, because it's a big training

    Turnin nothin into somethin, is God work
    And you get nothin without struggle and hard work

    Think like a man of action, act like a man of thought. - Henri Bergson.

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex
    That's the truth.

    You will not experience hypertrophy without eating enough to support growth.

    The fact is, if he doesn't eat enough to support growth, strength gains will be minimum, so there would be no point in lifting weights anyway.

    My advice is: don't be afraid to put some weight on, since you're extremely underweight. I've gained 20 lbs since I started working out and I have improved my cycling nevertheless, which is pretty good, expecially if you consider that I've been riding my bike a lot less since I started lifting. Unless you pack on TONS of muscles, you won't have any problem, since the strength gains will be really useful.

  6. #5
    Mint
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay-X
    The fact is, if he doesn't eat enough to support growth, strength gains will be minimum, so there would be no point in lifting weights anyway.

    My advice is: don't be afraid to put some weight on, since you're extremely underweight. I've gained 20 lbs since I started working out and I have improved my cycling nevertheless, which is pretty good, expecially if you consider that I've been riding my bike a lot less since I started lifting. Unless you pack on TONS of muscles, you won't have any problem, since the strength gains will be really useful.
    There's a very large neurological component to strength gained from weightlifting. It is entirely possible to gain considerable strength while maintaining bodyweight, as Kevin stated. Hypertrophy is about diet; strength is about diet and training methods. Training methods equate to neurological training!

    For most people involved in sport, weightlifting is a supplement, not replacement, for sport specific training. I personally would not look to weightlifting as the first place to improve cycling performance.... I would look to cycling. Weightlifting could be a good adjunct, with the obvious focus being on the legs. Squatting and its variations, Goodmornings and other hamstring work, lunges, step-ups, ect... all would be very suitable. But nothing can replace cycling for become a better cyclist. And that goes back to the neurological component.

    I agree, some quallity muscle gain would not hurt the OP, but that's not what he asked. He asked if he could get stronger without getting heavier. The answer is yes.
    "To make a big training like Dimas, you can not be a pussy." - Christos Iakovou

    prepare yourself, because it's a big training

    Turnin nothin into somethin, is God work
    And you get nothin without struggle and hard work

    Think like a man of action, act like a man of thought. - Henri Bergson.

  7. #6
    Senior Member MantiXX's Avatar
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    Hey all... Noob here, and luv the site by the way.....

    I used to be into cycling a few years back and thought I'd go from lurker to poster....

    I can see how you dont want to gain too much more weight because you've got to move it...

    Have you ever thought about getting a 'weight vest' and using it when you cycle?

    I've been into the Martial arts for over 20 years now and that weight vest is a godsend when used properly... I think they can go up to 100 lbs now (mine is only up to 40 lbs)....

    Put on something like that (start low at say 20lbs) and do you daily cycling workout and watch the difference.. I wonder what would happen if you made it up to 100 lbs and could do it easily.. I guess it would be the opposite of gaining weight, you'd FEEL LIGHTER than ever (especially at 120 lbs bodyweight)..

    Anyways good luck with that...

    Peace out...

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex
    There's a very large neurological component to strength gained from weightlifting. It is entirely possible to gain considerable strength while maintaining bodyweight, as Kevin stated. Hypertrophy is about diet; strength is about diet and training methods. Training methods equate to neurological training!

    For most people involved in sport, weightlifting is a supplement, not replacement, for sport specific training. I personally would not look to weightlifting as the first place to improve cycling performance.... I would look to cycling. Weightlifting could be a good adjunct, with the obvious focus being on the legs. Squatting and its variations, Goodmornings and other hamstring work, lunges, step-ups, ect... all would be very suitable. But nothing can replace cycling for become a better cyclist. And that goes back to the neurological component.

    I agree, some quallity muscle gain would not hurt the OP, but that's not what he asked. He asked if he could get stronger without getting heavier. The answer is yes.
    ]

    When I first started working out I had incredible strength gains without gaining any weight at all. My diet was horrible I barely at all three times at most. I would be out all day doing drugs with my friends and never came home till night and I barely ever wasted money on food cause I wanted to stay high. Even with all this I still had strength gains with no weight gain which isn't what I wanted at the time but I was very uneducated in weight lifting. Anyways thats my 2 cents.

  9. #8
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    My advice from our side of the forum world would be to spend a week or 2 finding your exact maintanance cals(how much you can eat each day for a week without gaining weight) you do this by just what it says id say pick 2200 cals eat that everyday and see if you gain weight or loose it then adjust accordingly.

    my next step would be to adjust diet so you have a reasonably good amount of protein but dont go over your maintanace cals and lift heavy weights. you will get stronger hopefully without the weight gain. maybe something like the WWB routine on this site or as your a cyclist how about a full body routine just twice a week consisting of just squats, deadlifts and bench press
    my journal
    http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=68545

    weight 202 - (bf around 14%)
    PR's
    Bench - 286
    deadlift - new pr on the 23/12/06 190 kilo (430 pound)
    squat - 264 ATF

    Goals

    200 pound at 10% bf by next summer

  10. #9
    Breaker of Skulls Guido's Avatar
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    If being as fast as possible is your goal (and I assume it is), I'd stick to mainly the parts that are going to help you the most - legs and core training. Having a strong posterior chain overall will help you, and building strength in those areas will carry over to everything else just because they include such a large percentage of the musculature in your body. You can gain strength without gaining (much) weight because of increases in CNS recruitment of muscle fibers. I'd stick with a very heavy weight, low volume routine which will minimize hypertrophy and give you the greatest max strength gains. Stick to no more than 3-5 reps per set and no more than 5 sets per body part. It might be something like (these are work sets after a proper warmup):

    Monday: Squat 4x4, Stiff Legged Deadlift 3x3, Lunges 4x4 ea. leg, Weighted Abs/obliques

    Friday: Conventional Deadlift 3x3, Pullups 2x5 (add weight if needed), Bentover Barbell Row 2x5, Weighted Abs/obliques

    That should be about all you need since I'm sure you are getting plenty of work on the bike. Choose whatever days to lift that you can get the maximum amount of rest afterwards, perhaps the day before an off day from cycling to give you muscles a chance to recover as much as possible.
    5'9" 195 lbs
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    "Most people don't want to learn new things. They only want to hear about things that validate crap they're already doing." - Mike Boyle

  11. #10
    C.S.C.S. ddegroff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guido
    If being as fast as possible is your goal (and I assume it is), I'd stick to mainly the parts that are going to help you the most - legs and core training. Having a strong posterior chain overall will help you, and building strength in those areas will carry over to everything else just because they include such a large percentage of the musculature in your body. You can gain strength without gaining (much) weight because of increases in CNS recruitment of muscle fibers. I'd stick with a very heavy weight, low volume routine which will minimize hypertrophy and give you the greatest max strength gains. Stick to no more than 3-5 reps per set and no more than 5 sets per body part. It might be something like (these are work sets after a proper warmup):

    Monday: Squat 4x4, Stiff Legged Deadlift 3x3, Lunges 4x4 ea. leg, Weighted Abs/obliques

    Friday: Conventional Deadlift 3x3, Pullups 2x5 (add weight if needed), Bentover Barbell Row 2x5, Weighted Abs/obliques

    That should be about all you need since I'm sure you are getting plenty of work on the bike. Choose whatever days to lift that you can get the maximum amount of rest afterwards, perhaps the day before an off day from cycling to give you muscles a chance to recover as much as possible.
    great advice for a cyclist. i would stay away from upperbody work. In an article I read with Lance he said that he could finally rock climb again. He couldn't before because he would gain muscle in his arms. To become the best cyclist possible you need to ride (you probably already know that). As far as gaining weight if you don't eat more cals than your burning then you wont gain weight.
    Make Shift IF diet
    My Training Experience
    GET BODY SMART
    Goals:
    CF WOD and Recomp...
    "My fault. I was fiddling with the Gravitational Constant of the Universe again.
    I've set it back - you might need to reboot, though..." -Built

    "Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal--
    nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong attitude" - Thomas J

    "Obsessed is what the lazy call the dedicated" - Slim Schaedle

  12. #11
    Senior Member KevinStarke's Avatar
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    The fact is, if he doesn't eat enough to support growth, strength gains will be minimum, so there would be no point in lifting weights anyway.
    I've had awesome strength gains while not "eating enough to support growth".

  13. #12
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    If you were to take up some serious weight lifting and watched your caloric breakdown/intake and put 5-10lbs of lean muscle on to your frame I think it's safe to say the benefits of that muscle would far outweigh any detrimental effects of the additional weight during a race.

    In other words, that muscle will more than be able pull its own weight.

    Now, where the inflection point of the curve is, (at what point does the additional muscle begin to slow you down), that I can't tell you.

  14. #13
    DeaTH BeFoRe WeaKNeSs sCaRz*Of*PaiN's Avatar
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    am 5 ft 11 and weigh 120 pounds (minimum race weight) yet I train a lil higher.
    You really need to gain some weight.
    "The only easy day was yesterday."

  15. #14
    Sculpted by Science brickt.'s Avatar
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    Yeah, did it occur to you that if youwere perhaps, I dunno, 15lbs heavier, you would be a better cyclist?
    Last edited by brickt.; 04-27-2006 at 03:50 AM.
    Poo is also LBM - The Built

  16. #15
    Wannabebig Member
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    Trust me guys I dont look that bad, im an endurance athlete...personally I think the weights that you guys are is very unhealthy...too much work for the heart! Lets agree to disagree but yeah i do admit that when my body matures I will end up 70kg's (roughly) so putting on 2 or 3 kg's at my age (15) wont hurt at all.

    The weight of cyclists is anywhere from 52 kg's-82kg's Lance Armstrong and Jan Ullrich are both about 73kg's when they get to race weight and if anything there on the slightly heavy side.

  17. #16
    DeaTH BeFoRe WeaKNeSs sCaRz*Of*PaiN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dm69
    Trust me guys I dont look that bad, im an endurance athlete...personally I think the weights that you guys are is very unhealthy...too much work for the heart! Lets agree to disagree but yeah i do admit that when my body matures I will end up 70kg's (roughly) so putting on 2 or 3 kg's at my age (15) wont hurt at all.

    The weight of cyclists is anywhere from 52 kg's-82kg's Lance Armstrong and Jan Ullrich are both about 73kg's when they get to race weight and if anything there on the slightly heavy side.
    You still need to gain weight. That is not a healthy weight for your height. My brother was an endurance runner for his track team back in high school. He weighed considerably more than you and he's 5'10" (he was very lean and thin). Im 5'4" and when I was a Freshman back in high school not doing much, I weighed 124...and I was about 9-10% body fat. Gain some weight. It won't hurt you. I understand the need to be at a light weight for your sport though, but the weight and height you're at now seems dangerously unhealthy.
    Last edited by sCaRz*Of*PaiN; 04-28-2006 at 02:07 AM.
    "The only easy day was yesterday."

  18. #17
    C.S.C.S. ddegroff's Avatar
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    real quick, why is lifting heavy bad for the heart?
    Make Shift IF diet
    My Training Experience
    GET BODY SMART
    Goals:
    CF WOD and Recomp...
    "My fault. I was fiddling with the Gravitational Constant of the Universe again.
    I've set it back - you might need to reboot, though..." -Built

    "Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal--
    nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong attitude" - Thomas J

    "Obsessed is what the lazy call the dedicated" - Slim Schaedle

  19. #18
    Wannabebig Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddegroff
    real quick, why is lifting heavy bad for the heart?
    Its not bad for the heart at all...I was talking about YOUR body weight that you all seem to try and gain. The heart has to work as hard to supply blood to your muscles as it does to your fat etc. That is why in a cardio sport like cycling we try and make it as easy on ourselves as possible by getting ourselves lighter.

  20. #19
    C.S.C.S. ddegroff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dm69
    Its not bad for the heart at all...I was talking about YOUR body weight that you all seem to try and gain. The heart has to work as hard to supply blood to your muscles as it does to your fat etc. That is why in a cardio sport like cycling we try and make it as easy on ourselves as possible by getting ourselves lighter.
    misread your post sorry, i agree. But i know a lot of big guys are in great shape, cycling is a whole different monster (different musle fibers, energy source etc).
    Make Shift IF diet
    My Training Experience
    GET BODY SMART
    Goals:
    CF WOD and Recomp...
    "My fault. I was fiddling with the Gravitational Constant of the Universe again.
    I've set it back - you might need to reboot, though..." -Built

    "Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal--
    nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong attitude" - Thomas J

    "Obsessed is what the lazy call the dedicated" - Slim Schaedle

  21. #20
    Senior Member DNL's Avatar
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    so in sum, you should take your post to a cyclist forum. This is WannaBeBig. So get the hell out. haha no no i'm just kidding .

  22. #21
    Wannabebig Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by DNL
    so in sum, you should take your post to a cyclist forum. This is WannaBeBig. So get the hell out. haha no no i'm just kidding .
    Hmm I am sure we would welcome you at www.cyclingforums.com if ever you needed a question answered if you were interested in getting some hypertrophy in your heart muscle

  23. #22
    Cross trainer & DL addict mikesbytes's Avatar
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    dm, have you read thru this thread on strenght an cycling. Seems to be a lot of differing opinions.
    http://www.cycling.net.au/t336308.html

    Also a lot of cyclists are anti protein loading, as they are concerned about putting on weight. Being pro protein, I must be in the mirority in the cycling world.

  24. #23
    Breaker of Skulls Guido's Avatar
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    He's only 15. I wouldn't worry about it that much right now. He'll fill out naturally as he gets older and his body matures. I'd say 5'11 and about 140-150 lbs is about ideal for a top level cyclist. Yes it sounds very skinny to us but endurance sports and what we do are whole different animals.
    5'9" 195 lbs
    DL 600x1
    SQ 490x1 (raw)
    BP 430x1 (shirted), 320x1 (raw)
    SN 209x1 C+J 250x1


    My Training Journal
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    "Most people don't want to learn new things. They only want to hear about things that validate crap they're already doing." - Mike Boyle

  25. #24
    Wannabebig Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guido
    He's only 15. I wouldn't worry about it that much right now. He'll fill out naturally as he gets older and his body matures. I'd say 5'11 and about 140-150 lbs is about ideal for a top level cyclist. Yes it sounds very skinny to us but endurance sports and what we do are whole different animals.
    yer exactly the common weight of a cyclist that is 5 ft 11 would be anywhere from 130-180 pounds so I am not far off the minimum already and I still have a lot of growing to do. Again thx 4 the help, you have provided a welcome insight from the opposite side of physical perfection ...by the way if any of you have looked at http://www.cyclingforums.com/f49-cycling-training.html you will see what I am talking about. ITS CRAZY!!! everyone has an opinion, very entertaining IMO.

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