The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
Latest Article

The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
More Recent Articles
Contrast Training for Size
By: Lee Boyce
An Interview with Marianne Kane of Girls Gone Strong
By: Jordan Syatt
What Supplements Should I be Taking? By: Jay Wainwright
Bench Like a Girl By: Julia Ladewski
Some Thoughts on Building a Big Pull By: Christopher Mason

Facebook Join Facebook Group       Twitter Follow on Twitter       rss Subscribe via RSS
Page 2 of 46 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 1138

Thread: Hell, why not?

  1. #26
    fat and small Blood&Iron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    On the Night Train
    Posts
    3,336

    Day 7 - 1/26/02

    GENERAL RAMBLINGS
    You might notice I take a fair amount of supplements. Do I think they're necessary? No, not at all. Hard, intelligent work in the gym, proper eating, and sufficient rest will net you 95% of your gains. Supplements are probably only gonna get you that last measly 5%. I consider myself a fairly intelligent guy. I was a National Merit Scholar(Whoopie f*cking do, huh?), have never had my IQ tested, but on my father's side of the family have an uncle in MENSA, a great uncle who helped design several of the Apollo rockets and lunar landing vechicles, a father who scored an IQ somewhere around 180, and a cousin who received a similar score, and mother's father was a head engineer at GM to boot. (On a side note, I think IQ tests mean jack sh*t. Why else would Marilyn Vos Savant--the "most intelligent woman in the world" be writing a column for Parade magazine instead of curing cancer, composing staggering works of music, etc.) So, anyway, my point--and, yes, I do have one--is that I'm not a utter and complete moron. Just luck of the genetic draw(Frankly, I think I'd rather have big muscles). But when I see some new ad for "Super Anabol Extreme 2000" promising to pack 15lbs of muscle onto my fairly average frame in two weeks, my eyes glaze over like Jared Fogel as he passes by Dunkin' Donuts on the way to Subway. "Maybe, it's true.", I say to myself, "Ya' know supplement companies nowadays are real scientific. They wouldn't lie." I shell out 30 or 40 bucks against my better judgment, take the stuff religiously, and then end up remarking to anyone who asks about it "Yeah, I think it worked. Made my muscles harder." Or the ever popular "I think I recovered more quickly." Ha! Or at least, this was how things used to work. I've pretty much given up on supplements. I do still use quite a bit, but I stick to the basics--at least for the most part. MRPs are great if you're on the run(BTW, if you're looking for a MRP that uses something other than high-glycemic maltodextrin as a carb-source check out VPX Micellean MRPs. They use ground rice, oat, and barley. They even taste good--if a bit doughy/grainy.) Protein powder is a good way to supplement if you have a hard time eating quite as much protein as you should. And a good multi-vitamin is never a bad idea. But beyond that, and maybe some extra anti-oxidants, EFAs, creatine, and glutamine, you're probably pissing away your money. And even the stuff I've listed ain't essential. As I said, it probably helps only a few percent at best. But at the same time I don't hold with the people who seem to think that your kidneys, liver, and heart are gonna explode if you use ephedrine--which, BTW I also really like. Just look at the available evidence. Do some research. Most people aren't gonna be checking Medline, but check around before you shell out your money for something. The old adage of "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is." is nowhere more applicable than in the world of dietary supplements. And if you see me furtively sneaking out of some GNC with a bottle of ecdysterone, just pretend you didn't see me. Hey, I could be buying crack.

    EXERCISE
    NONE.

    Overall Comments:
    Damn, I actually enjoy having a day off when it's this infrequent.

    DIET

    7:30am: 2 eggs, 60g muesli, 1/2 cup milk, 22g whey(49g carbs/8g fiber, 46g protein, 16.5g fat)

    10:30am: 1 Lean Body MRP(27g carbs/0g fiber, 45g protein, 1.5g fat)

    2:30am:Salmon Wrap Sandwich(40g carbs/0g fiber, 29g protein, 30g fat)

    6:30pm: stir-fried chicken and vegetables(54g carbs/8g fiber, 54g protein, 25g fat)

    8:30pm: 8oz. milk, 1 low-fat cupcake(41g carbs/1g fiber, 9g protein, 1.5g fat)

    9:30pm 1 VPX Micellean MRP, 5 fish oil caps(22g carbs/7.5g fiber, 45g protein, 2g fat)

    Totals:
    Calories: 2569kcal
    Carbs/Fiber: 233g/24.5 g
    Protein: 227g
    Fat: 81g

    Comments:
    My diet got a bit mucked up today since I was on the road for most of it. Had to eat lunch at a restaurant, so I'm just guessing on the salmon wrap sandwich(Although I think I'm pretty close to correct.) Had a few calories left over so I gave myself a treat with a cupcake left over from refeed day.

    MISC. RECOVERY ISSUES
    Got a pretty decent 8.5 hours of sleep, although I did wake up more often that I'd like. I'm gonna skip the ZMA for two more days, then add it back in Monday night and see what happens.

    Also, my lower-back is a bit sore today. Not sure if this is from the Ninjutsu or from bad form on leg-day. I'm gonna be watching this carefully
    Last edited by Blood&Iron; 01-29-2002 at 03:48 PM.

  2. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    1,031
    What does this mean? ---> B&I Rating

    btw, great journal

  3. #28
    fat and small Blood&Iron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    On the Night Train
    Posts
    3,336
    Originally posted by Fart Barker
    What does this mean? ---> B&I Rating

    btw, great journal
    Blood&Iron's rating....Just my personal take on how the set went. I could get less reps that the week before, but if I *really* bust my ass it'll still get a "good." And even if I got a bunch more reps than the previous week but stopped short of my potential it'll still get just an "okay."

    Thanks for the compliment.

  4. #29
    fat and small Blood&Iron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    On the Night Train
    Posts
    3,336

    Day 8 - 1/27/02

    GENERAL RAMBLINGS
    I don't really have anything to say today. Lucky for you.

    EXERCISE

    Stairstepper:
    High-Intensity Interval Training:
    2min warm-up
    20s as fast as I could pump my legs, machine at level 5
    10s at slow pace
    20s as fast as possible, level 5
    10s at slow pace
    20s as fast as possible, level 5
    30s at slow possible
    30s as fast as possible, level 4
    30s at slow pace
    20s as fast as possible, level 3
    3 min cool-down

    Comments
    I think this is pretty close to what I did, but it might be one interval less or more than I actually did. Whatever. Anyways, this was my first foray into HIIT. Frankly, I have mixed feelings. While it certainly taxed my cardiovascular system more than my normal turn on the treadmill and it wasn't a hundredth as boring, my heart rate didn't really get that much more elevated. Additionally, my quads ended up being more a limiting factor than my lungs. I just couldn't, after a couple of intervals, move them all that fast. Too much lactate. Perhaps, since I skip carbs prior to cardio and this is the primary fuel source used when doing HIIT, I simply didn't have enough muscle glycogen(I may experiment with consuming carbs prior to cardio to test this hypothesis.) My butt felt pretty tired after I got off the machine, too(Although, I didn't notice this while I was doing it.) and my lungs were burning for a good 30-40minutes after I finished(They just haven't been taxed in this way for a long time.) I'm quite concerned that doing this three times a week is going to seriously compromise my leg strength. Perhaps, I'll try doing this on an exercise bike next time or an elliptical trainer.(Generally, I avoid these as I think they cause too much shearing force to the knee joint.)

    Calf-raise on incline leg press:
    75 x 10, 62.5 x 10,50 x 10, 37.5 x 10, 37.5 x 10, 25 x 10, 25 x 10, 12.5 x 10, 12.5 x 10

    Seated Calf-Raise:
    45 x 10, 35 x 10, 25 x 10, 25 x 10, 15 x 10

    Comments:
    I was expecting my calf-workout to be really easy, since my calves really didn't come into play much on the stairstepper. But actually it was a little more difficult to get through this than normal. The last couple sets were easier than usual, though.

    Overall Comments:
    I'm a bit concerned that the piddly 10min or so I spent on the stairstepper didn't burn nearly as many calories as my usual cardio. I'm still not sure if I'm gonna reduce my total calories by 200 or so to make up for this, or if I should trust what I've read about HIIT and see how things work out. For a moment, I was tempted to jump on a treadmill and do an extra 20min low-intensity cardio session, but I resisted this urge(Not hard, really.)

    DIET

    9:30am: 22g whey(3g carbs/0g fiber, 22g protein, 1.5g fat)

    11:00am:1 serving Trac Creatine(4g argininine, 4g creatine), 100mg gingko biloba, 250mg DMAE, 800mg phosphotidyl choline, 1g l-tyrosine)

    12:00pm(pre-workout):22g whey, 5g glutamine peptide, 5g BCAAs(3g carbs/0g fiber, 22g protein, 1.5g fat)

    12:15pm: 50g Ultra Fuel(49g carbs/0g fiber, 0g protein, 0g fat)

    1:30pm: 1 Lean Body MRP(27g carbs/0g fiber, 45g protein, 1.5g fat)

    4:00pm: stir-fried chicken and vegetables(27g carbs/4g fiber, 27g protein, 12g fat)

    6:00pm: 1 packet tuna, 1 tbsp. mayo, 1 can peaches in juice, 3/4 cup cottage cheese(59.5g/3.5g fiber, 38g protein, 19.5g fat)

    7:30pm: 2oz. cashews, 1 small greek salad, 3 tbsp. light dressing, 8oz. skim milk, 22g whey(40g carbs/5g fiber, 42g protein, 35g fat)

    9:30pm: 1 VPX Micellean MRP, 5 fish oil caps(22g carbs/7.5g fiber, 45g protein, 7.5g fat)



    Totals:
    Calories: 2592kcal
    Carbs/Fiber: 230.5g/20g fiber
    Protein: 241g
    Fat: 78.5

    Comments:
    A bit of an off diet for my diet, not in overall macronutrient breakdown, but in individual meal composition. As long as I come in at the right number of calories, though, I'm not gonna get too worried, as this is the most important thing.

    MISC. RECOVERY ISSUES
    I got a good 8.5 hours of sleep or so, although, like the last couple days woke up a few more times during the night than I'd like.
    Last edited by Blood&Iron; 01-27-2002 at 06:22 PM.

  5. #30
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    1,031
    Does that stairstepper have the revolving stair-case or the steps that go up and down?

  6. #31
    fat and small Blood&Iron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    On the Night Train
    Posts
    3,336
    Originally posted by Fart Barker
    Does that stairstepper have the revolving stair-case or the steps that go up and down?
    Just a normal, crappy stairstepper with pedals.

    For a minute I was thinking the "revolving" staircase was some weird contraption with stair spinning around like a carousel, and was like "Damn, I gotta see one of those." Then I realized you were just talking about an escalator-type stairstepper.

  7. #32
    Wannabebig New Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Ann Arbor, MI
    Posts
    2

    Journal

    I just want to say that I really enjoy reading your journal. I just joined this site and am trying to find a journal style that I like and can follow myself. I also work as a personal trainer and have decided that my clients should look to your journal also for help. Good Luck.

  8. #33
    fat and small Blood&Iron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    On the Night Train
    Posts
    3,336

    Re: Journal

    Originally posted by DimMak
    I just want to say that I really enjoy reading your journal. I just joined this site and am trying to find a journal style that I like and can follow myself. I also work as a personal trainer and have decided that my clients should look to your journal also for help. Good Luck.
    tuttut

    I know this guy...same gym.

    Actually, didn't we agree you were gonna say I look exactly like Arnold?

  9. #34
    fat and small Blood&Iron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    On the Night Train
    Posts
    3,336

    Day 9 - 1/28/02

    GENERAL RAMBLINGS
    Okay, first things first. Having weighed myself it looks like I dropped about 1.5lbs last week(I'll keep weighing myself for the next couple days to confirm this.) A little more than I was shooting for, but not too bad--especially considering it looks like I'm maintaining my strength. Today was a refeed day. I've been following a strict schedule of three days of dieting, followed by a one day refeed. According to most experts this is NOT the ideal way to do things. Really, you should try listening to your body, and when you start feeling lethargic or really craving certain foods that's when you have the refeed. I am always hungry while dieting, so I'm not sure that this method is ideal for me. I think I'd end up having a refeed every day, and my diet would end up turning me into a blimp. But I may try this. Since, however, I've already made one change this week(I switched my normal cardio for HIIT.) I'm gonna hold off on this. It's hard to know what's having what effect when you change a ton of things all at once. We'll see how I feel about this whole subject next week.

    EXERCISE

    Incline DB Press
    Tempo: 212
    Warm-up: 60's x 6
    Work-set: 80's x 3

    Comments:
    Repeat performance of last week, although I had to push fairly hard to get the last rep. I'm considering switching my work-set for a set on the Hammer Strength Incline Bench Press, on which I can use a good deal more weight. I have been alternating the two. Guess, we'll see next week.
    B&I Rating:
    Okay.

    Barbell Bench Press
    Tempo: 212
    Warm-up: bar x 8, 135 x 6

    Comments:
    Cut the warm-up down by two reps. I've been progressively making my warm-ups fewer and fewer reps, and have cut down on the number of sets as well as I feel warm-ups should be minimized and energy conserved for the final work-set. At this rate, I'll be back to the 1-set, no-warmup deal soon(I'm kidding.)

    B&I Rating:
    N/A

    Hammer Strength Bench Press
    Tempo: 414
    Warm-up: previous exercise
    Work-set: 185 x 3

    Comments:
    I considered upping my work-set to 230 again, as I mentioned last week. However, I decided it better to just make a slight jump in weight. 5 more lbs. and the same number of reps as last week. Part of me thinks I couldn've gotten 4 reps if I had *really* pushed, but after a 5s iso I gave up.
    B&I Rating:
    Okay.

    Incline DB Flyes
    Tempo: 212(warmup), 414(work-set)
    Warm-up: 20's x 6
    Work-set: 45's x 4.5

    Comments:
    Good effort on this on. Really busted my ass--although it's a lot easier to do that on isolation exercises like this. Got the negative for a 5th rep, but the bells were *not* gonna go up again.
    B&I Rating:
    Decent.

    Dips
    Tempo: 101
    Warm-up: bodyweight x 6
    Work-set: bodyweight+50lb db x 2

    Comments:
    Fairly, long iso on this one. This is another movement where I'd really like to see some progression, but on a diet I settle for maintenance. Man, I wanted 3, but after struggling 5s about about half-way up I knew it wasn't gonna happen.

    B&I Rating:
    Okay.

    DB Overhead Press
    Tempo: 212
    Warm-up: 30's x 6
    Work-set: 55's x 3

    Comments:
    Considered dropping the weight down to 50 lbs dbs but decided that I was gonna get 3 reps. Considering, how crappily this exercise went last week, I really wanted to redeem myself. Well, I got one more rep. The concentric on the last rep took about 10 seconds but I got it. I think my form might've been a bit off though. I was slightly arching my back, and my elbows were drifting a little bit.
    B&I Rating:
    Good.

    Hammer Strength Behind-the-neck Press
    Tempo: 101
    Warm-up: previous exercise
    Work-set: 180 x 3

    Comments:
    Felt light going up, but my strength quickly evaporated. One rep less than last week. This isn't surprising considering how much I put into the previous exercise.
    B&I Rating:
    Mediocre.

    Seated Lateral Raise
    Tempo: 212(warm-up), 414(work-set)
    Warm-up: 12's x 6
    Work-set: 15's x 4

    Comments:
    I did this seated this week. Don't think it really makes much difference either way. Repeat performance of last week.
    B&I Rating:
    Okay.

    Barbell Wrist Curl
    Tempo: 212(warm-up), 414(work-set)
    Warm-up: bar x 6
    Work-sets: 95 x 4

    Comments:
    Didn't have the sharp pain that prematurely ended my work-set of this last week, but there was a little twinge in my right wrist. Still I pushed fairly hard to get the final rep. So, not horrible.
    B&I Rating:
    Okay.

    Overall Comments:
    Overall, it ended up being a decent workout. Nothing spectacular, but not horrible either. Just average. Maintained my poundages/reps on most exercises, improved on a couple, and only did worse on the Hammer Strength Behind the Neck Press. Not bad considering I am about 1.5lbs lighter than I was a week ago.

    DIET

    8:30am: 2 eggs, 60g muesli, 1/2 cup milk, 22g whey, 1 multi vit., 1g ester-c, 400IU vit. E(52g carbs/8g fiber, 46g protein, 13.5g fat)

    10:15am: 1 serving Trac Creatine(4g arginine, 4g creatine), 250mg DMAE, 800mg Phosphotidyl choline, 100mg ginkgo biloba, 1g L-tyrosine

    10:45am(pre-workout): 22g whey, 5g glutamine peptide, 5g BCAA(3g carbs/0g fiber, 22g protein, 1.5g fat)

    11:25am(halfway through workout): 50g Ultra Fuel, 250mg ALA(49g carbs/0g fiber, 0g protein, 0g fat)

    11:45am(post-workout): 1 serving Biotest Surge, 5g glutamine peptide, 250mg ALA(50g carbs/0g fiber, 25g protein, 1.5g fat)

    1:00pm: 4oz. Baked Lays, 4 Low-fat Hostess Cupcakes(208g carbs/12g fiber, 16g protein, 12g fat)

    1:30pm: 1 Lean Body MRP(27g carbs/0g fiber, 45g protein, 1.5g fat)

    3:00pm: 100g Ultra Fuel, 250mg ALA(98g carbs/0g fiber, 0g protein, 0g fat)

    3:30pm: 3oz. Baked Lays(69g carbs/6g fiber, 6g protein, 4.5g fat)

    4:30pm: 1 Lean Body MRP(27g carbs/0g fiber, 45g protein, 1.5g fat)

    6:00pm: 6oz spaghetti, 1.5 cups marinara sauce, 25g parmesan cheese(159g carbs/15g fiber, 37g protein, 16.5g fat)

    9:30 3 ZMA caps

    10:30pm: 3 cups skim milk, 4 low-fat hostess cupcakes, 2oz Baked Lays(169g carbs/8g fiber, 36g protein, 9g fat)

    Totals:
    Calories: 5313kcal
    Carbs/Fiber: 911g/41g
    Protein: 278g
    Fat: 61.5g fat

    Comments:
    This is getting to be a tired refrain but, a little high on fat. Whoa...lot 'o carbs. Sh*t. Didn't plan on my last meal being quite what it was, but I got a strong urge for some cupcakes, and figured, 'Hey, it's a refeed day.' I'm not gonna worry about it too much, but next time I'm gonna try to keep carbs at around 750g.

    MISC. RECOVERY ISSUES
    Got a pretty decent 8.5 hours of sleep. Tonight I'll use ZMA again and see how it affects things. I'm skipping Budo Taijutsu tonight as I have other plans, so that'll probably help my recovery a bit.
    Last edited by Blood&Iron; 01-29-2002 at 04:22 PM.

  10. #35
    Proud Father Maki Riddington's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Vancouver, B.C.
    Posts
    5,324
    Holy dedication!
    Good shiat!
    Maki Fit Blog

    At Large: Optimize Your Body | Dynamic Conditioning |
    My articles on Wannabebig

    "Soli Deo Gloria"
    "Test all things; hold fast what is good.": 1 Thessalonians 5:21

    "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
    So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
    Romans 7:14-25

    "Judo is not about strength. Yet in the learning curve, all Judokas get strong. Only with time do you learn where to apply that strength."
    The Art of Judo

  11. #36
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Charlottesville, VA
    Posts
    12,589
    You seem to be a bit too meticulous/obsessive about your training and diet. You are including a great deal of detail in this log. Why are you being so detailed? One more question, when you say tempo 414 (for example), does that mean 4 seconds concentric, 1 sec pause, 4 second eccentric?

  12. #37
    fat and small Blood&Iron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    On the Night Train
    Posts
    3,336
    Originally posted by chris mason
    You seem to be a bit too meticulous/obsessive about your training and diet.
    I don't believe that's possible. Actually, there are a number of areas where I could still use some work. Besides, attention to detail doesn't really take that much more effort than being oblivious.


    You are including a great deal of detail in this log. Why are you being so detailed?
    What's the point of keeping a journal if not noting the details and their effects on training.


    One more question, when you say tempo 414 (for example), does that mean 4 seconds concentric, 1 sec pause, 4 second eccentric?
    This is explained in the journal, but yes, this is correct.

  13. #38
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Charlottesville, VA
    Posts
    12,589
    Ok, let's try this. I have a very short attention span, so I haven't studied your entire log, but I will assume part of your goals are to get bigger and stronger. If so, your excessive (in my opinion) attention to tempo is not the best way to get to your goals. I have trained with strict attention to tempo in the past, for lengthy periods, and I have found that using a tempo that comes naturally in your training is the best method to maximize your personal potential. Different physiology dictates different optimal tempos for the individual. I am sure you will like to see an example, so let me provide one. The World's Strongest Man competition. Gerrit Badenhorst, a former WSM competitor, was an extremely powerful man. He placed as high as 2nd (I believe), and the only thing that held him back was that he was not the best in the events that required speed. In pure power events, he was as good or better than any other. When he performed a maximum deadlift or squat, he performed the rep with a very slow and controlled tempo. This obviously worked very well for him and his unique physiology. On the other hand you have Magunus Ver Magnusson, a multi time winner of WSM. He too was very powerful, but he was also quick. When he performed a maximum deadlift or squat, his tempo, while still very controlled, was quite a bit quicker than Gerrit's. Two men, two optimal tempos. From what I have read of your journal, you strike me as being a very anal (I don't mean this as an insult, just a description) individual who is scientifically minded and logical. Thus, when you read a well written, scientific article concerning weightlifting, you will latch onto the philosophy if it makes rational sense to you. I suppose my misguided attempt with my last post didn't get my point across correctly. My point is that I believe that one should be intelligent and scientific about training, but all of the science etc. one uses will be for naught if it is not correct. I feel like some people (possibly like you) fall into the "scientific" trap and cannot see past the advanced vocabulary included in some journal articles. So, train hard, train smart, but don't get caught in the trap.

  14. #39
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Charlottesville, VA
    Posts
    12,589
    ...and just so we don't start off on the wrong foot, I am not saying these things to beat you up, just trying to offer some constructive criticism/advice. At your request, I will be happy to not offer any further...

  15. #40
    fat and small Blood&Iron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    On the Night Train
    Posts
    3,336
    I appreciate the feedback, but let me respond.

    Ok, let's try this. I have a very short attention span, so I haven't studied your entire log, but I will assume part of your goals are to get bigger and stronger.
    Even a cursory glance would have shown that I am not currently trying to do either. I'm trying to lose weight, and although strength gains would be great, I'm not expecting them. This is somewhat beside the point, however.

    If so, your excessive (in my opinion) attention to tempo is not the best way to get to your goals.
    It very may well have no added benefit, but I am positive it doesn't have a deleterious effect.

    I have trained with strict attention to tempo in the past, for lengthy periods, and I have found that using a tempo that comes naturally in your training is the best method to maximize your personal potential. Different physiology dictates different optimal tempos for the individual.
    If anything dictates tempo, it is the movement in question. For example, the range of motion of shrugs precludes using very slow tempos, e.g. SuperSlow, whereas in a movement like a machine pullover, if one avoids using momentum, one will end up, in my experience, using a 313 tempo. Further, if you had carefully examined my journal, you would have noticed the vast majority of the time I use a 212 tempo, which is I find closest to 'ideal.' Certain exercises dictate I use a slower tempo--or a faster one-- and for others I choose to consciously move at a slower speed. I have gone by *feel*--quite recently in fact--and find that without careful attention to tempo, my tempos get faster and faster. This is because without attention to this aspect of lifting, weight becomes the primary concern. Consequently, my tempo becomes faster and faster, and form is sacrificed, in the pursuit of ever higher poundages.

    I am sure you will like to see an example, so let me provide one. The World's Strongest Man competition. Gerrit Badenhorst, a former WSM competitor, was an extremely powerful man. He placed as high as 2nd (I believe), and the only thing that held him back was that he was not the best in the events that required speed. In pure power events, he was as good or better than any other. When he performed a maximum deadlift or squat, he performed the rep with a very slow and controlled tempo. This obviously worked very well for him and his unique physiology. On the other hand you have Magunus Ver Magnusson, a multi time winner of WSM. He too was very powerful, but he was also quick. When he performed a maximum deadlift or squat, his tempo, while still very controlled, was quite a bit quicker than Gerrit's. Two men, two optimal tempos.
    While I myself very much enjoy watching WSM, I do not think it particularly applicable to the situation. Many people like to use examples of genetically superior individuals to point to the efficacy of a certain lifting style or methodology. I find this dubious at best, even here, where your point isn't that I should train like either of these men, but find my own optimal tempo--something, incidentally, I don't believe exists(At one time, though, I thought SuperSlow was ideal.)

    From what I have read of your journal, you strike me as being a very anal (I don't mean this as an insult, just a description) individual who is scientifically minded and logical. Thus, when you read a well written, scientific article concerning weightlifting, you will latch onto the philosophy if it makes rational sense to you. I suppose my misguided attempt with my last post didn't get my point across correctly. My point is that I believe that one should be intelligent and scientific about training, but all of the science etc. one uses will be for naught if it is not correct. I feel like some people (possibly like you) fall into the "scientific" trap and cannot see past the advanced vocabulary included in some journal articles. So, train hard, train smart, but don't get caught in the trap.
    If I was using science to justify a severely flawed approach to training, then perhaps this would be an issue. But the fact is I think my attention to tempo, is a minor, and incidental point(If was using ballistic movements this would not be the case, however.)

    In reply to your other post, feel free to point out things you find flawed. I appreciate the fact you are trying to help, I simply may not agree. And I hope my response didn't make me sound like an a**hole, but I take criticism(To be fair, it was actually advice.) poorly.
    Last edited by Blood&Iron; 01-29-2002 at 10:54 AM.

  16. #41
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    Posts
    7,850
    Just out of curiousity, how to all you TUT people manage to count your tempo during a set? I'm too busy making sure the bar is moving to bother counting how long its taking.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  17. #42
    fat and small Blood&Iron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    On the Night Train
    Posts
    3,336
    Originally posted by PowerManDL
    Just out of curiousity, how to all you TUT people manage to count your tempo during a set? I'm too busy making sure the bar is moving to bother counting how long its taking.
    Dunno...how do people manage to keep track of how many reps they've performed?(This is actually more of a struggle for me. Sometimes I lose track.) Ain't really that hard, IMO. Actually, it helps me to focus my attention on the lift.

  18. #43
    King Nothing ericg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Maine, USA
    Posts
    6,196
    Counting reps kinda comes natural to me. I think I have some sort of disorder; I seem to count everything that has some sort of rythm to it. Im all fooked up
    Current Stats --------------- Training Goals: Improve athletic conditioning.
    Squat - 305lbs - 1/23/06 ----- 335
    Deadlift - 415lbs - 2/4/06 ---- 435
    Bench - 90s*7 ----------------- 100s*5
    Weight - 208 ------------------ 190
    Height - 5'10"

    My Journal|My Routine|My FitDay
    WBBB|"Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up" - Thomas Edison

  19. #44
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Charlottesville, VA
    Posts
    12,589
    If you are trying to lose weight, I would assume that would mean fat loss. As you seem to be a intelligent individual, I also assume that you realize that increasing muscle mass is an integral part of efficient fat loss. If you have been training for some time, and find that adding muscle while losing fat is not possible, then you would try to maintain as much muscle as possible. Whether or not you are able to add or only maintain, you should train in the same fashion for either result since the ideal result would be to gain muscle. So, getting bigger and stronger should be integral to your goals even if you are aiming to lose bodyfat.

    Now, you agreed that your attention to tempo may not be helping your training, only not hindering it. Why not train in the manner which would help you get to your goals most quickly, not merely in a non-detrimental fashion?

    I was using the WSM guys as examples I hoped you could relate to only, not that a particular style is best. As you noted, I only used them as an example that everyone is unique. A generally faster tempo seems to work best for me while a slower one always worked best for most of my training buddies. If you feel that you don't have your own optimal tempo, you are incorrect insofar as making the best general progress when training with weights (which, again, should be your goal if you are trying to lose fat).

    As for the exercise dictating the tempo, this is true. Load also dictates tempo, as one approaches one's limit, by definition, the load is moved at a slower rate. My point is that for a given exercise, or load, if general progress is the goal, one should train at the tempo that comes naturally. Actually counting the tempo as one trains unnecessarily reduces focus on the lift. You simply cannot concentrate as hard on moving the weight, especially as your limit approaches, if you are counting the tempo of each rep.

    I am giving this advice from experience, I have been training for over 14 years and I have tried various tempo schemes, including super slow training (extensively---which I think is a very good form of training for injured joints etc.).

  20. #45
    fat and small Blood&Iron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    On the Night Train
    Posts
    3,336
    Originally posted by chris mason
    If you are trying to lose weight, I would assume that would mean fat loss. As you seem to be a intelligent individual, I also assume that you realize that increasing muscle mass is an integral part of efficient fat loss. If you have been training for some time, and find that adding muscle while losing fat is not possible, then you would try to maintain as much muscle as possible. Whether or not you are able to add or only maintain, you should train in the same fashion for either result since the ideal result would be to gain muscle. So, getting bigger and stronger should be integral to your goals even if you are aiming to lose bodyfat.
    I appreciate advice, but please do not patronize me. I would have to be either a complete imbecile or a complete beginner not to know this. The body is either in a whole body state of catabolism or a whole body state of anabolism. So except for a person just starting to train, it is for the most part physiologically impossible to gain muscle mass and lose fat simultaneously. Trying to do both leads to success in neither. A cyclical isocaloric diet, where planned hypercaloric refeeds are employed(This is what I'm currently doing.) *may* help one avoid this unfortunate fact.

    Now, you agreed that your attention to tempo may not be helping your training, only not hindering it. Why not train in the manner which would help you get to your goals most quickly, not merely in a non-detrimental fashion?
    You misunderstand. Implicit in my argument is the fact that not paying attention to tempo has negative consequences(IMO), and paying attention *may* have any benefits. You are arguing the opposite point.

    I was using the WSM guys as examples I hoped you could relate to only, not that a particular style is best. As you noted, I only used them as an example that everyone is unique. A generally faster tempo seems to work best for me while a slower one always worked best for most of my training buddies. If you feel that you don't have your own optimal tempo, you are incorrect insofar as making the best general progress when training with weights (which, again, should be your goal if you are trying to lose fat).
    As I stated, 212 is about as close to ideal as one can get, IMO. To move slower does not significantly reduce momentum, and to move faster introduces a fair amount momentum. I will repeat, I perform the vast majority of my lifting at this speed. Only a small amount of work is performed at other cadences.

    As for the exercise dictating the tempo, this is true. Load also dictates tempo, as one approaches one's limit, by definition, the load is moved at a slower rate. My point is that for a given exercise, or load, if general progress is the goal, one should train at the tempo that comes naturally.
    Load should never dictate tempo in my opinion. This means the lifter is not "in control" of the weight. Tempo should dictate load. Of course, as I have stated numerous times, I am a bodybuilder, not a weightlifter. This has *some* bearing on my opinion.

    Actually counting the tempo as one trains unnecessarily reduces focus on the lift.
    I find the opposite to be the case. And while I often disagree with him--and am thus hesistant to bring up his name--so does Charles Poliquin.

    You simply cannot concentrate as hard on moving the weight, especially as your limit approaches, if you are counting the tempo of each rep.
    This is a purely subjective statement. *You* may not be able to focus on the lift while counting, I can do so just fine.

    I am giving this advice from experience, I have been training for over 14 years and I have tried various tempo schemes, including super slow training (extensively---which I think is a very good form of training for injured joints etc.).
    Again, I appreciate your advice. I simply do not agree with it.

  21. #46
    Senior Member MonStar1023's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    2,460
    Blood&Iron-
    What do you think of TRAC bro? Getting good results with it? I will be taking 1.5 tsp. with my carb-up meal.


  22. #47
    fat and small Blood&Iron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    On the Night Train
    Posts
    3,336
    Originally posted by MonStar1023
    Blood&Iron-
    What do you think of TRAC bro? Getting good results with it? I will be taking 1.5 tsp. with my carb-up meal.

    I answered this in your other thread under 'Supplements.' Oh, and I think you mean tablespoons, since a teaspoon will give you only a gram or so of creatine and arginine.
    Last edited by Blood&Iron; 01-29-2002 at 03:54 PM.

  23. #48
    fat and small Blood&Iron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    On the Night Train
    Posts
    3,336

    Day 10 - 1/29/02

    GENERAL RAMBLINGS
    Disclaimer: I'm not an expert in nutrition, so the following might be complete bullsh*t.

    Goddamn I hate MFW. It would be great if it wasn't mostly used as a chat room. I spent the last hour and a half looking for information about leptin and the "optimal" approach to a CID. I've done this before, but thought it'd be worth taking another look(Really, I'm not so sure.) The current structure of my diet has been based primarily on the articles written by Par Deus and some of his comments on other boards, combined with a little bit of info gleaned from MFW. On my second look through the MFW archives a couple of issues popped up:

    Leptin plays a far more important role in dieting in already lean individuals.
    I considered this before I began the diet, and decided it was a non-issue. I'm not particularly lean, but I still figured occasional refeeds certainly wouldn't hurt--other than slowing fat loss, which did not concern me. I also saw a few comments to the effect that leptin may play a more significant role in those who are naturally fat(This would be me.) so perhaps I am benefiting more from the refeeds than might be inferred merely by my bodyfat.

    Omega-3's downregulate cytokine production(Leptin is one of these.)
    Elzi Volk recommends that one switch from using fish-oil to flax-oil during refeeds. I seem to recall that alpha-linolenic acid, which is found in flax, also has this effect, so I'm not sure what one gains by doing this. I'll have to check up on this a bit more. For now I'll skip the fish oil during refeeds.

    A refeed of one-day may not be sufficient to upregulate leptin levels
    Again, this is primarily of importance to lean individuals. Perhaps when I find fat loss slowing I will start using 2 day refeeds every 5-6 days, but for the time being I can't imagine this would be necessary in my case(~16%bf) On a related not, I am considering letting my body dictate when refeeds occur next week. I like following a schedule, however, so I'm not sure, in my case, this will work. We'll see.

    The thing for which I was searching however, namely detailed recommendations from Lyle McDonald, simply was not to be found. I already knew this would probably be the case, but I had to give it another shot. I hope his book comes out sometime this millenium.


    EXERCISE

    Stationary Bike:
    High-Intensity Interval Training:
    2min warm-up
    20s as fast as I could pump my legs, level 12
    10s at slow pace, level 3
    20s as fast as possible, level 12
    10s at slow pace, level 3
    20s as fast as possible, level 12
    30s at slow pace, level 3
    20s as fast as possible, level 12
    30s at slow pace, level 3
    20s as fast as possible, level 12
    30s at slow pace, level 3
    20s as fast as possible, level 12
    3 min cool-down

    Comments
    I switched to a stationary bike due to the severe fatigue I experienced in my quads whilst performing my intervals on a stairstepper. Since the work load on a bike is a bit more evenly distributed between the hamstrings and quads I thought it might be a better choice. It was. I still, however, found my legs failing before my cardiovascular capacity. After the first two or three intervals, I just couldn't move my legs all that fast. Even though I didn't eat any carbs beforehand, I should have had plenty of muscle glycogen from my refeed yesterday. Maybe it's just lactic acid. I'll test this theory next Sunday by consuming some carbs beforehand.

    Calf-raise on incline leg press:
    75 x 10, 62.5 x 10,50 x 10, 37.5 x 10, 37.5 x 10, 25 x 10, 25 x 10, 12.5 x 10, 12.5 x 10

    Seated Calf-Raise:
    45 x 10, 35 x 10, 25 x 10, 25 x 10, 15 x 10

    Comments:
    Like last time I expected this to be easy, considering my calves didn't have to do much on the bike, and was disappointed to find it was harder than normal. Weird.

    Overall Comments:
    My 2nd HIIT session has heightened my concerns that I'm going to end up overtraining my legs. I guess we'll see Friday. Still, HIIT is infinitely less tedious than my previous cardio sessions. Kinda fun, really. Although I'm horribly out of shape, cardiovascularly speaking.

    DIET

    9:30am: 22g whey(3g carbs/0g fiber, 22g protein, 1.5g fat)

    10:30am:1 serving Trac Creatine(4g arginine, 4g creatine), 100mg gingko biloba, 250mg DMAE, 800mg phosphotidyl choline, 1g l-tyrosine)

    10:45pm(pre-workout):22g whey, 5g glutamine peptide, 5g BCAAs(3g carbs/0g fiber, 22g protein, 1.5g fat)

    11:00pm(after cardio, before calves): 50g Ultra Fuel(49g carbs/0g fiber, 0g protein, 0g fat)

    1:00pm: 1 VPX Micellean MRP, 1oz peanuts(26g carbs/10.5g fiber, 53g protein, 18g fat)

    4:00pm: 1 large packet tuna, 1 can peaches in juice, 1oz peanuts(56g carbs/6g fiber, 50g protein, 18g fat)

    7:00pm: stir-fried chicken and vegetables(50g carbs/8g fiber, 52g protein, 22g fat)

    9:30pm: 3 caps ZMA

    10:00pm: 1 cup cottage cheese, 1 cup split-pea soup, 5 fish oil capsules, 40mg GLA(40g carbs/7g fiber, 35g protein, 19g fat)

    Totals:
    Calories: 2564kcal
    Carbs/Fiber: 227g/31.5g
    Protein: 235g
    Fat: 80g

    Comments:
    Very solid. Still going a little too long after my workout with eating, but otherwise great. Even the individual meals had good macronutrient profiles.

    MISC. RECOVERY ISSUES
    Forgot to take my ZMA to test whether it is screwing up my sleep.(I'll add it back in tonight.) So, I got a restful 8.5 hours in. Really felt well-rested when I woke up.
    Last edited by Blood&Iron; 01-30-2002 at 04:10 PM.

  24. #49
    Senior Member MonStar1023's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    2,460
    Blood&Iron-
    Thank you SO MUCH for correcting me! Tablespoon vs. teaspoon. I just assumed it was teaspoon since 1 tsp. of regular creatine powder is around 5 grams. Damn I would have been WAY OFF with my results!



    Thanks again bro! I guess 4g creatine + 4g arginine does come out to a tbsp. not a tsp. huh!?

  25. #50
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    Posts
    7,850
    Originally posted by Blood&Iron
    The body is either in a whole body state of catabolism or a whole body state of anabolism.

    I'd like to see a reference for that. Not that I'm disagreeing, I just don't know.


    To move slower does not significantly reduce momentum, and to move faster introduces a fair amount momentum.


    Momentum (p) = (m)ass x (v)elocity

    When does this *not* exist while any object is moving?


    Load should never dictate tempo in my opinion. This means the lifter is not "in control" of the weight. Tempo should dictate load. Of course, as I have stated numerous times, I am a bodybuilder, not a weightlifter. This has *some* bearing on my opinion.


    Granted. But you're not going to tell me that because you're using a slow tempo at 95% of your 1RM that the lifter isn't "in control"? That's what Chris is saying here.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •