The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #51
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    RhodeHouse,
    Thanks. JM Blakely is a freaking genius. ..and for those of you who are thinking "What? He writes an article about candy bars and you call him a 'genius'?", no that's not why - it's because he has a knack of telling people the truth in a no-BS way that is easy to understand. I read his other articles over the years in PLUSA and he, seriously, changed the way I looked at the sport. Amazing. I know he made a DVD - hmmm, might have to make that purchase sometime soon if it's still available.

    Con,
    I'm not really sure what you're getting at with the "as fast as possible" angle... Getting strong is going to be hard no matter what. Gaining 50-100lbs on a "clean, slow bulk" just doesn't happen at all for most people...
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  2. #52
    Superman sharkall2003's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Con View Post
    Sensei, am I correct in saying that this is really only aimed towards people who want to become strong as fast as possible?
    Isn't that the goal of everyone? I mean, if you're goal is not to get stronger faster then why lift?
    5'11.75
    249lbs cutting to 220lbs
    Bench: 250
    Deadlift: 435
    Squat: 350
    OHP: 190

  3. #53
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    Sensei, do you yourself follow this diet?

    I just feel like you can eat big without putting all that extra crap into your body. You can get your 5000+ calories per day from healthy foods like the stuff found in the "what a bodybuilder eats" thread, and your CVS will probably thank you later in life.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharkall2003 View Post
    Isn't that the goal of everyone? I mean, if you're goal is not to get stronger faster then why lift?
    I think they meant strong without regard to extra fat gained.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialK View Post
    I think they meant strong without regard to extra fat gained.
    Basically.

    Sensei, I just thought it was interesting that you are all for an approach like this that seems more to the extreme side. I mean why eat a crap load of junk food and such, when you could eat just a bit more, to a moderate amount more than than you need?
    Complication breeds desperation.

  6. #56
    Superman sharkall2003's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Con View Post
    Basically.

    Sensei, I just thought it was interesting that you are all for an approach like this that seems more to the extreme side. I mean why eat a crap load of junk food and such, when you could eat just a bit more, to a moderate amount more than than you need?
    I don't have a study for this, but it's easier to gain muscle eating more than just a little bit more at a time. You also build a lot more strength, so when you do go on a cut you can keep your lifts up and keep a lot of the muslce you have built.
    5'11.75
    249lbs cutting to 220lbs
    Bench: 250
    Deadlift: 435
    Squat: 350
    OHP: 190

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharkall2003 View Post
    I don't have a study for this, but it's easier to gain muscle eating more than just a little bit more at a time. You also build a lot more strength, so when you do go on a cut you can keep your lifts up and keep a lot of the muslce you have built.
    I think the two of you are arguing two different points here:

    1. clean vs. dirty bulking
    2. eating way over maintenance vs. eating a little bit over maintenance

    These are two different things you have control over.

    The article seems to be concerned with point 1, and advocates eating lots of unhealthy foods to reach your goal.

    My point is, no matter whether you like to eat 100 calories over maintenance or 10,000 calories over maintenance, there is no excuse to eat all the crap outlined in that article when you could just as easily build a diet of relatively healthy foods found in the "what a bodybuilder eats" thread. I just think your general health would be better off in the long run.

    I guess if you were dirt poor, needed 10,000 calories a day to gain weight, and didn't really care about long term health, then the approach in that article might be best.
    Last edited by SpecialK; 08-29-2007 at 09:06 AM.

  8. #58
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    Actually Im only arguing, if you want to even call it arguing, about point two. I personally enjoy some junk food, regardless of my caloric intake. Ij ust dont see how a little crap will ruin a good exercise regimen with an overall sound nutrition plan.

    Shark - I unfortunately cannot speak from experience, but from reading, I have the same premise about that. However, I believe some people(guess I shouldnt be concerned with anyone but myself eh?) might take it to an extreme. Its one thing to gain some bf, its another to become obese, thinking you are going to be "jacked".
    Last edited by Con; 08-29-2007 at 09:20 AM.
    Complication breeds desperation.

  9. #59
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialK View Post
    I think the two of you are arguing two different points here:

    1. clean vs. dirty bulking
    2. eating way over maintenance vs. eating a little bit over maintenance

    These are two different things you have control over.

    The article seems to be concerned with point 1, and advocates eating lots of unhealthy foods to reach your goal.
    No, it's not 'advocating' eating crap - it's advocating eating over maintenance. If you are a skinny bastage who complains that you can't gain weight no matter what, the answer is right there - you need to eat a lot more.... All of this has been discussed and I'm sick of repeating it.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialK
    My point is, no matter whether you like to eat 100 calories over maintenance or 10,000 calories over maintenance, there is no excuse to eat all the crap outlined in that article when you could just as easily build a diet of relatively healthy foods found in the "what a bodybuilder eats" thread.

    I guess if you were dirt poor, needed 10,000 calories a day to gain weight, and didn't really care about long term health, then the approach in that article might be best.
    You probably don't think so, but you're knitpicking. Of course you could eat 10,000 calories over maintenance eating cleanly, but who does? How hard can you push your calorie intake eating nothing but clean foods? I'm seriously asking because I just don't see it happening unless you are a pro-BBer and even then, I'd be willing to bet many of them eat their fair share of junk in the off-season.

    Somewhat related, I don't know a lot of really big people (actually, I know none) who have the patience to sit down and type out ALL the food that they eat at fitday... I'm not against doing it, mind you, I just don't think it's necessary if your goal is to gain weight.

    I've said this at least twice before and JM Blakely makes a point of saying that this is not something that you should do long-term... it is to break out of a plateau.

    I hope everyone at these forums knows by now that I HATE the constant cycle of bulking and cutting that is prevalent here and at most BB forums. I think most young people would be so much better off if they learned to eat better and more, trained hard and consistently and just stuck with that - instead, they are counting every calorie and trying to have ripped muscles @ 6', 150 and constantly looking for the next sweet-ass routine that will propel their bench from 135 to 140...

    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialK
    Sensei, do you yourself follow this diet?
    I gained about 50lbs on a force-feed diet to get to 210 about 7 years ago and guess what, the weights I was using shot-up. Would I recommend people to gain 50lbs in a year if they want to do PL or get strong? Depends on the person, I guess.
    Right now, I weigh about 200 and I'm happy where I am, but if I was trying to push up my bench or squat (and I didn't mind moving up a weight class) or if my goal was to weigh 250, you can bet I'd be eating A LOT more and not all of it would be "clean" calories.
    Last edited by Sensei; 08-29-2007 at 09:34 AM.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    I hope everyone at these forums knows by now that I HATE the constant cycle of bulking and cutting that is prevalent here and at most BB forums. I think most young people would be so much better off if they learned to eat better and more, trained hard and consistently and just stuck with that - instead, they are counting every calorie and trying to have ripped muscles @ 6', 150 and constantly looking for the next sweet-ass routine that will propel their bench from 135 to 140...
    Guess I fall into this category.

    Im not trying to argue anything sensei, but isnt learning to eat more and eating to the point of sickness two different things?

    Personally Im in the process of learning to eat more, but could easily put away twice as many cals. I just choose to take a slower route I suppose. The memories of being fat will probably always be there.

    Im pretty sure I asked this, but just want to make sure: when would you consider someone ready to think about cutting weight/leaning out?

    Im assuming its when you are lots stronger and bigger than when you started? For someone people Id think that would have them at an uncomfortable posittion in terms of appearance. For those people, probably myself included with them, Im all for a slower, more gradual approach.
    Last edited by Con; 08-29-2007 at 09:40 AM.
    Complication breeds desperation.

  11. #61
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Con View Post
    Sensei, I just thought it was interesting that you are all for an approach like this that seems more to the extreme side. I mean why eat a crap load of junk food and such, when you could eat just a bit more, to a moderate amount more than than you need?
    What do you mean I'm "all for" the approach? I never said everyone should do it... I posted it because it's a great article and a lot of people here could learn something from it, not because I think everyone should follow it to the letter....

    As a far as eating over maintenance (and this has been discussed) "measuring" your caloric needs is a crap-shoot. Eating A LOT will leave no question as to whether you are eating enough or not.
    Last edited by Sensei; 08-29-2007 at 09:44 AM.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  12. #62
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    Ok, sorry for the "all for" comment. It just seems like you stand behind(better?) this approach and I was curious as to why. I think I understand and wil drop the discussion.

    I respect you a lot sensei, but was just trying to understand something that seemed "foreign" to me.
    Complication breeds desperation.

  13. #63
    Getting Better..... bigmoney's Avatar
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    I love reading this article. It always helps me when I feel like a bitch when deciding between lean meat or a greasy pizza.

    Excellent post Rhodes.

  14. #64
    Always Learning IZich's Avatar
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    But I looooooove teh abz!
    6'2" | 215 lbs

    B320 S315 D440 = 1075
    The Road to 1200
    I'm always open to suggestions and critique, so stop by and help a brother out!

    "Determination is the wake-up call to the human will." - TR

  15. #65
    Is cutting down to 9% Jordanbcool's Avatar
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    This is a good article for all those kids bitching about never gaining anything.

    If you know how to actually count calories you shouldn't need to go to such extremes as this article. Macro nutrients are just as important as total calories.
    Getting back in the groove
    "I'll tell you a secret. Something they don't teach you in your temple. The Gods envy us. They envy us because we're mortal, because any moment might be our last. Everything is more beautiful because we're doomed. You will never be lovelier than you are now. We will never be here again." - Achilles, (Troy 2004)
    Stats
    ATF squat- 275 RAW
    Deadlift- 415
    Bench- Two 100lbs DB's four times
    190lbs 15% BF (Estimate)

  16. #66
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    I give up. Some will NEVER get it and that's fine, I guess but if that's you, could you withhold judgement and just shut the hell up?
    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialK View Post
    Alright, if one really needed to eat 10,000 calories a day to gain weight, then I will concede that eating 10,000 calories of clean food would be quite difficult and expensive. Substituting some cheap and "less than healthy" alternatives would make sense. But really, how many people here honestly need to eat 10k+ per day to gain? Yes I know there are probably a handful, but i would guess the vast majority do not.
    K,
    You're the one who brought up the "10,000 calories over maintenance", not me... Jeezus.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  17. #67
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    I tried the butter, maple syrup, melted candy bar thing! Oh wow! I truly feel sorry for you guys who worry about eating junk food. I wouldn't eat this everyday, that's for sure, but WOW! This fat kid slept like a bear last night.

  18. #68
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    you bastard rhode ive been wanting to try that!! hahaha.
    2000 or bust

  19. #69
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Bumped for fun...
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  20. #70
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    JM is still a genius. GFH!

  21. #71
    Demons of Steel and Flesh HP666's Avatar
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    SENSEI - thank you for this awesome article. As someone who has power lifted in the past I understand and appreciate everything said.

    The guys who are knocking Sensie, or the article, or its author, read it again, then maybe again, and try and understand the angle that it's coming from. Understand it. No one said this is the diet that Ronnie Colemen should use 2 weeks out from Olympia. There is a purpose, try and understand it.

  22. #72
    Wannabebig New Member HahnB's Avatar
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    This article is 100% accurate and pretty awesome if you care zero about your appearance. It also sums up the very complicated area of human genetics into a simplistic view that seems to be good for his article and nothing else. I have a few friends that are overweight who weigh more than me and I eat much more than them on a daily basis. Butter and maple syrup, what a great diet.

    Again, a 300lb power lifter should not have the same diet as a body builder. The two are night and day. I'd rather be at a lighter weight and 8 or 9% than a weight 30 or 40lbs more and 15% + bf. To me, being lean is just as important as being big.

    The problem I have with advice like his is that he generalizes and it's stupid. Everyone should NOT do the same thing. How hard is that to figure out for someone who has a Phd? Everyone has different goals, therefore everyone is going to want to take the most efficient route to reach their individual goal. Telling everyone they should eat the way he does is idiotic, I don't care who the guy is.

    Yea the article was written from a perspective, but he never says that. He never says "don't eat this way if you want to be healthy and add on quality weight". It's misleading and really bad advice for young people that are relatively lean to start out with and want to improve their physique.
    Last edited by HahnB; 09-28-2007 at 09:32 PM.
    My brother and I were brutal. I once chased him around the house with a spoon that I put on the burner. I burned that little pricks leg. -sharkall2003

    Then I saw a little african boy sleeping, and I thought...that is little Okeke. he is tired from herding all the goats and the big goat got away today - Rock

  23. #73
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HahnB View Post
    The problem I have with advice like his is that he generalizes and it's ****ing stupid. Everyone should NOT do the same thing. How hard is that to figure out for someone who has a Phd? Everyone has different goals, therefore everyone is going to want to take the most efficient route to reach their individual goal. Telling everyone they should eat the way he does is idiotic, I don't care who the guy is.
    *sigh*... It was written for POWERLIFTING USA - it not like he wrote it for Men's Health...
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  24. #74
    Super Moderator vdizenzo's Avatar
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    Man, you guys should have seen JM. He was absolutely jacked! He competed in every class from 220 to Superheavyweight in just about a year. The dude was a mad scientist genius. He was a master at gaining and losing weight. There are many people who have trouble gaining weight and no I am not advocating this as a life long diet, nor was JM. However, when I was going for my 600 raw bench press I could just not get it done at 308 (by the way for you health nuts my bp is 116/68 and have never heard a peep from doctors about my bloodwork). I knew I needed to push my weight to get that bench. Mass moves mass!

    At 308 my diet and supplementation were pretty good (never did cardio--not that I am proud of it), but to get up over 320 I had to adopt measures like JM wrote about. I dropped my protein shakes for about six weeks and just ate anything and everything. I looked to eat the most calorie dense food I could When I was full I ate more. I can't tell you all how many times I would puke up in my mouth and would swallow it back down. When all was said and done I weighed in at 328.5 and I benched the 600 in a competition pretty easily.

    That was my goal, that's what I did, and for me it was worth it. The info JM discussed in many ways is what I used. This is not for everyone, but it can be useful. By the way, I dropped 38 of the pounds in ten weeks by just cleaning up my diet, increasing gpp, and adding in cardio. Take it for what it's worth boys and girls. Good luck with all of your goals.
    Last edited by vdizenzo; 09-28-2007 at 10:35 PM.

  25. #75
    Senior Member shootermcgavin7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    *sigh*... It was written for POWERLIFTING USA - it not like he wrote it for Men's Health...

    I thought I read about it in the Little Toned Website mentioned in Fuzzy's thread.

    No?

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