Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 93

Thread: Problems with compound lifts

  1. #1
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    York, England
    Posts
    322

    Problems with compound lifts

    OK, I've got some problems with compound lifts, which I'd appreciate some advice with. First off, I can't really do lots of weight with squats, as I have hurt my knee on a leg press. I also don't really know the propper form for a squat. Second, I can only do 3 chins at a time, and even then I don't go to the bottom. What can I do to remedy this? Third, I do do bench presses, but my usual weight is around 80lbs, which seems too light to me. I do do a lot of mid rows, low rows, later pulldowns for my back. I also find that when doing heavy compound lifts such as squats I struggle to keep good form, which might result in me injuring myself.

  2. #2
    Senior Member DNL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    1,808
    You may have hurt your knees because of your foot placement on leg press platform. same rule as squat: don't let you knees go too far from your toes.

    3 chins is not bad. Some people can't do 1. try assisted chin, chin with the smith machine. use the pulldown machine if you wish.

    why can't you do more weight on your bench? how many reps are you doing with 80lbs. what does your chest routine look like? what does your whole routine look like?

    what do you suspect is wrong with your squatting form? try to cut down to 50% of your load and perform 20 reps. The key is to learn the squatting motion. Hopefully after a few sessions, you won't focus too hard and form and can focus more on pushing yourself.

  3. #3
    considering lipo Skinny Fat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    O - HI - O
    Posts
    534
    Quote Originally Posted by Nickthebassist
    First off, I can't really do lots of weight with squats, as I have hurt my knee on a leg press. I also don't really know the propper form for a squat.
    There are tons of tutorials and papers on squats. At your weight, strength, and experience, it's perfectly alright to, and you'll gain muscle mass from, doing a high volume of light squats to perfect your form. You'll do the most good for yourself if you get your form right now. Read, look at pictures, and watch videos. Film yourself, squat in front of mirrors, and get a spotter. Get it right, and you should be fine.

    Second, I can only do 3 chins at a time, and even then I don't go to the bottom. What can I do to remedy this?
    The path to more chins is more chins. These are an excellent exercise to Grease the Groove on; basically, the more chin-ups you do on an everyday basis, the stronger you'll get at them. You can do negatives, jumping pull-ups, or assist yourself with a lower bar and your toes on the ground or a bench once you run out of steam doing them unassisted. 3 chins isn't bad, and you should be able to improve that with repetition.

    Third, I do do bench presses, but my usual weight is around 80lbs, which seems too light to me. I do do a lot of mid rows, low rows, later pulldowns for my back. I also find that when doing heavy compound lifts such as squats I struggle to keep good form, which might result in me injuring myself.
    I'm not sure I fully understand this statement, but I'll try to break it down:

    1) 80lbs is pretty light, but if that's your starting point, that's fine. Get your form right. Push yourself, and put more weight on the bar. If you're eating, you should put 100lbs on the bar in no time.

    2) Mid rows, low rows, pulldowns = good.

    3) If you struggle to keep your form, lower the weight and do what you can. Stay focused, and increase the weight gradually. Keep eating, and keep performing the exercises with perfect form, and keep pushing yourself. You'll add weight to the bar quickly. Don't do a specific exercise/weight combination if you think there's a good chance you'll hurt yourself.

    Don't ask for a lighter load. Ask for a stronger back.


  4. #4
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    York, England
    Posts
    322
    Ok thanks for the encouragment. The thing is, I'm actually quite strong when it comes to rows and pull downs, but I simply can't do chins very well.......perhaps it's an endurance thing? Also, how could I do them on the smith machine, and what other methods are there for doing them assisted?(my gym doesn't have one of the fancy assisted dip and chin up machines).

  5. #5
    Senior Member Anthony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    12,020
    Squats: watch as many videos as you can, get someone who knows wtf they are doing to watch and guide you, and most importantly - keep things light until your form is solid.

    Chinups: 3 is a good place to start. Practise getting full extension. Use jumping chinups after you fail to finish your set. Ignore pulldowns, chinups are a bazillion times superior.
    Last edited by Anthony; 05-16-2006 at 06:01 PM.
    Facebook - BW166 SQ585 BP405 DL660 CL310

  6. #6
    considering lipo Skinny Fat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    O - HI - O
    Posts
    534
    Chins on the Smith machine is the same thing as I said - lower bar. If you move the bar on the Smith to the top, you should be able to dead-hang pull-up with no problem. Then, if you move the bar one or two pegs down, you should be able to do a pull-up and put a toe on the ground. Then you use that toe to assist yourself slightly, allowing you to get more. Also, you could slide a bench under a higher bar to do the same thing.

    There are a hundred reasons chins aren't the same as pull-downs. The most important, I think, has to do with the stability of pulling a bar attached to a wire down to your chest versus the inherent instability of pulling your body up to a bar.

    Pull-ups/Chin-ups >>>>>>>>> Pull-downs.

    Don't ask for a lighter load. Ask for a stronger back.


  7. #7
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    York, England
    Posts
    322
    Quote Originally Posted by Skinny Fat
    Chins on the Smith machine is the same thing as I said - lower bar. If you move the bar on the Smith to the top, you should be able to dead-hang pull-up with no problem. Then, if you move the bar one or two pegs down, you should be able to do a pull-up and put a toe on the ground. Then you use that toe to assist yourself slightly, allowing you to get more. Also, you could slide a bench under a higher bar to do the same thing.

    There are a hundred reasons chins aren't the same as pull-downs. The most important, I think, has to do with the stability of pulling a bar attached to a wire down to your chest versus the inherent instability of pulling your body up to a bar.

    Pull-ups/Chin-ups >>>>>>>>> Pull-downs.
    I thought a smith machine was a machine that you could use for bench pressing? I don't udnerstand how it can be used for chins, or to assist chins. Also, how many sets should I do of chins if I can only do 3 in a row?

  8. #8
    Senior Member AlecB's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    129
    the Smith machine CAN be used for bench press. In that case, you use it so you dont squash your brains out if you fail. You can simply lock it off so you dont need a spotter. As for using to do chin ups, reread what Skinny Fat said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Skinny Fat
    ... if you move the bar one or two pegs down, you should be able to do a pull-up and put a toe on the ground. Then you use that toe to assist yourself slightly, allowing you to get more.
    Basically lower the bar so that if you hang down, your feet touch the ground. That way you can assist yourself up with your legs. Try it out.
    Last edited by AlecB; 05-17-2006 at 05:54 AM.
    "Every time I come in the kitchen, you in the kitchen - in the G*****N refrigerator! Eatin' up all the food ... all the chicken, all the pig feet, all the collard greens..."

  9. #9
    HomeYield WillKuenzel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Charleston, SC
    Posts
    7,769
    How many pushups can you do? Until you learn how to tighten your whole body and learn to use everything together you'll always have a low bench. In order to make sure your abs and lower back are tight and that your shoulders are strong enough, if you mess up, I wouldn't even touch the bench until you can do 20 pushups.

    Same as you can't run until you walk and can't walk until you crawl, you really can't bench (or know how properly) without being able to do the pushup first.
    What is elite?
    "Those who work the hardest often complain the least." -anonymous
    Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.

  10. #10
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    York, England
    Posts
    322
    Quote Originally Posted by HomeYield
    How many pushups can you do? Until you learn how to tighten your whole body and learn to use everything together you'll always have a low bench. In order to make sure your abs and lower back are tight and that your shoulders are strong enough, if you mess up, I wouldn't even touch the bench until you can do 20 pushups.

    Same as you can't run until you walk and can't walk until you crawl, you really can't bench (or know how properly) without being able to do the pushup first.
    I can do 3 sets of 15. I couldn't do 10 six months ago.

  11. #11
    HomeYield WillKuenzel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Charleston, SC
    Posts
    7,769
    How many dips can you do? If benching is giving you problems then try dips. They'll be more difficult but keep at them the same as pullups.

    Every time you go into the gym, do 10 dips and 10 pullups. It doesn't matter if it takes you 5 sets to do them, get them done. When you can do them in 2 sets, increase to 15 reps everytime you get to the gym. They're a bodyweight activity and the reps aren't high enough to cause overtraining.

    If squatting is bothering you, switch to deadlifts. Squats aren't a necessity. Despite what some people may tell you. If you can't squat, deadlift. I'd also get to where you can do 20-30 bodyweight walking lunges at a time. This'll help increase your leg stability and lower body endurance.
    What is elite?
    "Those who work the hardest often complain the least." -anonymous
    Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.

  12. #12
    Toxic Rocker. Beno79's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    England
    Posts
    172
    Im in the same situation as the OP here, can only do about 40kg on bench (about 88lbs). I do 3x8, and by last set ive worked my way up to doing 3x8 with 88lbs, and its a struggle for the last rep.

    Only doing about 60lbs on squats too (mainly as i dont have a squat rack at home), so im cleaning the weight, pressing it over my head, and lowering it on to my back ready for squats, which would be dodgy with higher weights.

    Im rubbish at chins too! only can do 3 same as the OP. Should i practice them more, like 3 or 4 times a week, or go for everyday?
    Last edited by Beno79; 05-17-2006 at 08:22 AM.
    Cobra, Curry and the Gibson Flying V.

  13. #13
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    York, England
    Posts
    322
    Ok, so today I did:
    3 sets of leg extensions(60lbs)
    3 sets of thigh curls(50lbs)
    3 sets of leg presses(weight was 100kg) (are these good? I've managed ot get my form right now and I put the weight up today).
    I also did 3 sets of 6 on pulldowns with the weight on 100lbs down to 80lbs(i dropped 10lbs on every set).
    I also did some low rows with the weight on 70lbs on the machine, for 3 sets.
    I did some bench presses too, with 20kg each side(it's got two seperate levers for your arms), but I gradually dropped that down to 15kg at the end.(did 3 sets of 8-10 on these).
    I also did some peck deck work, and some shoulders presses.
    How is this looking? I really need to sort it into a regime, but I don't know where to start(I was following WBB1, but obviously I've had to tailor it to my own needs).

  14. #14
    considering lipo Skinny Fat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    O - HI - O
    Posts
    534
    Um, that's not a tailored WBB1, that's an entirely different routine.

    Also, as everyone in this thread has said multiple times:

    Squat >>>>>> leg extensions, leg curls, leg presses
    Chin-ups >>>>>> pull-downs

    So... why are you avoiding doing the right exercises? You just had a whole thread of people advising you on how to improve your chin-ups, and then you decided not to do them, and you had a thread full of people saying 'do squats, or at least do deadlifts', and instead you do leg presses?

    Don't ask for a lighter load. Ask for a stronger back.


  15. #15
    HomeYield WillKuenzel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Charleston, SC
    Posts
    7,769
    What needs do you have that WBB1 isn't fulfulling? Besides, obviously, ego lifting.
    What is elite?
    "Those who work the hardest often complain the least." -anonymous
    Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.

  16. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    York, England
    Posts
    322
    Quote Originally Posted by Skinny Fat
    Um, that's not a tailored WBB1, that's an entirely different routine.

    Also, as everyone in this thread has said multiple times:

    Squat >>>>>> leg extensions, leg curls, leg presses
    Chin-ups >>>>>> pull-downs

    So... why are you avoiding doing the right exercises? You just had a whole thread of people advising you on how to improve your chin-ups, and then you decided not to do them, and you had a thread full of people saying 'do squats, or at least do deadlifts', and instead you do leg presses?
    It's useless to try and do chin ups. I can't do them, even assisted, I can manage 3 and that's IT. Also my right arm compensates for the weaker left arm. As for squats, I was gonna use the Smith machine for them as I don't want to try normal squats without a spotter. The gym owner was you have to put your feet out infront of you for squats on a smith machine? I also have never done a deadlift in my life and don't know what weight to start with.

  17. #17
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    York, England
    Posts
    322
    Quote Originally Posted by HomeYield
    What needs do you have that WBB1 isn't fulfulling? Besides, obviously, ego lifting.
    The main problem is it's too quick, it isn't really worht spending half an hour doing thsoe exercises at the gym, when I have to spend 2.50 each visit. It's not really getting my money's worth.

  18. #18
    Bodybuilding Mythbuster
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Yeongsan. South Korea
    Posts
    5,907
    Quote Originally Posted by Nickthebassist
    The main problem is it's too quick, it isn't really worht spending half an hour doing thsoe exercises at the gym, when I have to spend 2.50 each visit. It's not really getting my money's worth.

    WHAT? Lifting in order to gain mass and strength is not about "getting your money's worth" It's about getting results.

    You will not get your money's worth regardless if you continue to overtrain/undertrain.

    Getting your money's worth is not about TIME SPENT. It's about RESULTS. This is not a flame but you seem to have entirely the wrong mind-set for going about this.

    WBB1 is INTENDED to be quick, so that you don't overtrain.

    As for chins stand on a chair and do negatives for a while, that will help.
    Even if you only do three that's fine. Just keep doing them and eventually you will get four, and later still you will get five and so on. By the time you are up to 15, your body will look quite dramatically changed for the better.

  19. #19
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    York, England
    Posts
    322
    Quote Originally Posted by ExtremeAnabolic
    WHAT? Lifting in order to gain mass and strength is not about "getting your money's worth" It's about getting results.

    You will not get your money's worth regardless if you continue to overtrain/undertrain.

    Getting your money's worth is not about TIME SPENT. It's about RESULTS. This is not a flame but you seem to have entirely the wrong mind-set for going about this.

    WBB1 is INTENDED to be quick, so that you don't overtrain.

    As for chins stand on a chair and do negatives for a while, that will help.
    Even if you only do three that's fine. Just keep doing them and eventually you will get four, and later still you will get five and so on. By the time you are up to 15, your body will look quite dramatically changed for the better.
    I know you;re right, it's just my dad will be like 'why are you spending so little time there?'. I go to the gym 3 times a week, so if I mixed WBB1 up a bit, and maybe trained some body parts on both Monday, and then again on Friday, would that be too much?(I've giving it 3 days to recover). It's just sometimes I feel I'm not training enough.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Canadian Crippler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    The Pavilion
    Posts
    6,775
    Why are you paying for each visit?
    "I added some db curls with the pink weights for a bit of a burn." - Rookiebldr

    "im assuming the holy (big) 3 are: curls, bench, legs?" - Saggas

    "had a huge ass burn on my triceps while I was doing those kickbacks, so they'll likely be staying with my exercise program." - Zearoth

    "most of my burned calories coming from something called Basal. Wtf does a leaf have to do with any of it?" - Votorx

    "We have a lot of people like that on our campus, all hippies and things, that go around preaching against corporations, jocks, preps, accountants, and anyone else that feels the need to shower more than occasionally." - Shankerr

    "Damn man why are some women just so demonic and evil.. its like you wanna get a stake and mallet and an erection at the same time." - WBBIRL

  21. #21
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    York, England
    Posts
    322
    Quote Originally Posted by Canadian Crippler
    Why are you paying for each visit?
    I'm 17. You can pay 20 a month, or 2.50 a visit. As I'm 17, I can't pay 20 a month as it's a standing order, and you have to over 18 to have one of those. I only have 7 months before I can start paying 20 a month. (btw, I go 3 times a week, so 7.50 a week, my friend who goes to another gym pays 33 a month, so that's over 8 a week, so really I'm not losing out).

  22. #22
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    York, England
    Posts
    322
    Would it be ok to combine some of the exercises from WBB2 into WBB1, to add variety to my workouts? What I'm thinking is do more of the advanced exercises on things I'm better at, for example hammer curls and rows, but stay on the less advanced things for exercises liek squats that I've never tried before?

  23. #23
    Senior Member Anthony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    12,020
    Nick, you have to slow down and read the advice that has been given. If you keep pushing in the direction you are, you'll end up not getting any advice in the future. Stop, read, apply. If you can sit on a toilet, you can learn to squat properly. Spend the time and effort necessary to do this right while you still have the opportunity to fully exploit "newbie gains" ... you'll thank us in the long run.
    Facebook - BW166 SQ585 BP405 DL660 CL310

  24. #24
    considering lipo Skinny Fat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    O - HI - O
    Posts
    534
    Seriously, Nick, you're about to go on my ignore list. You start ten threads a week asking for advice, and then don't use any of the advice. Here is the best thing you can do:

    Squat, with whatever weight you can do, even if it's only your body to begin with.

    Deadlift, with whatever weight you can do, even if it's just the olympic bar.

    Bench Press

    Overhead Press

    Chin-up

    Row

    If you do these exercises, you will get significantly stronger. If you throw these exercises away and do hammer curls and leg extensions because they're easier, you will get crap for a body. You should never use the Smith machine to squat, because it will hurt you. It's an unnatural movement, and it's so vastly better to squat normally with a lighter weight, that it's ridiculous. The power rack is just as good as a normal spotter, that's why it was designed. Do yourself a favor and only use the Smith for pull-ups.

    If you do the exercises above, you can throw in hammer curls, leg extensions, or whatever other crap you want to do. But if you eliminate the exercises above, you're on your own. Because you're ignoring the advice of every f'n poster on this site.
    Last edited by Skinny Fat; 05-18-2006 at 11:13 AM.

    Don't ask for a lighter load. Ask for a stronger back.


  25. #25
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    York, England
    Posts
    322
    Quote Originally Posted by Skinny Fat
    Seriously, Nick, you're about to go on my ignore list. You start ten threads a week asking for advice, and then don't use any of the advice. Here is the best thing you can do:

    Squat, with whatever weight you can do, even if it's only your body to begin with.

    Deadlift, with whatever weight you can do, even if it's just the olympic bar.

    Bench Press

    Overhead Press

    Chin-up

    Row

    If you do these exercises, you will get significantly stronger. If you throw these exercises away and do hammer curls and leg extensions because they're easier, you will get crap for a body. You should never use the Smith machine to squat, because it will hurt you. It's an unnatural movement, and it's so vastly better to squat normally with a lighter weight, that it's ridiculous. The power rack is just as good as a normal spotter, that's why it was designed. Do yourself a favor and only use the Smith for pull-ups.

    If you do the exercises above, you can throw in hammer curls, leg extensions, or whatever other crap you want to do. But if you eliminate the exercises above, you're on your own. Because you're ignoring the advice of every f'n poster on this site.
    Ok calm down. When you say 'rows' does that mean ALL kinds of rows?

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •