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Thread: Master overhead squat before the snatch?

  1. #1
    Wannabebig Member
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    Master overhead squat before the snatch?

    Does one need to have a competent overhead squat before one can snatch properly?

  2. #2
    Mint
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    Well, that's why I started messing around with the OH Squat. I think it gives good experience and confidence in the bottom position of the snatch. But the snatch is a completely different lift. Obviously a strong snatch = strong OH squat but a strong OH squat does not equal a strong snatch.

    So, imo the answer is no.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member khari's Avatar
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    If you're planning to learning the full squat snatch, it's a good idea to be comfortable holding weight overhead in the squat position. In fact, breaking the lift up into pieces makes learning the lift easier in general, so practicing snatch pulls at the same time might be a good idea as well, moving onto power snatches when you feel comfortable with the pull.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    I think they complement the snatch well, but aren't, IMHO, a prerequisite lift. Drop snatches w. light weights are another you could try.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  5. #5
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Another interesting question would be "Is the front squat a prerequisite to learning how to clean properly?". I would say that the answer is 'yes'.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  6. #6
    Wannabebig Member
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    Sensei, would you say that a major form thing about weightlifting-style front squats is the elbow position?

  7. #7
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    You really shouldn't be directing OL questions at me - Khari or ArchAngel would be better able to answer them.

    But, I'd say the rack and upper body positioning in front squats is really important to learn if you ever want to be able to clean properly.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  8. #8
    Iced Earth - Stormrider ArchAngel777's Avatar
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    Derrick Crass who was one of the finest lifters the USA has ever seen teaches the Squat Snatch is reverse order. So, essentially, he starts you with the weight over your head going down into a squat.

    Going back into my training and thinking about it, I think Derrick has the right approach to reduce injury. If you are not sure what a certain amount of weight feels like in the OH Squat position, how are you going to snatch and catch it in that position?

    But quite honestly, unless you are daring and like to play with danger, I don't think you should be doing these (squat snatches, that is) unless you have a coach or someone experienced watching you do those lifts. Power Clean's/Power Snatches, those are fine to do on your own, but it is still best to have someone show you properly until you have learned them.

    Even the most experienced lifters, with tens of thousands of lifts under their belt make errors on the majority of those lifts. We would call them minor, but those errors a coach can correct and allow a few more kilos of weight.

    Remember, when doing OH Squats, start with just the bar and go slowly. You are going to have to stretch quite a bit before you are going to have the flexability to do these with greater weight. The more flexable you are, generally, the more weight you can handle. The key is balance and keeping the weight directly in the center. Lack of flexability will have your delts and back smoking in pain trying to hold the weight in a non effecient position.
    Last edited by ArchAngel777; 06-04-2006 at 10:35 AM.

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