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Thread: ATF squat High bar or low bar ?

  1. #1
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    ATF squat High bar or low bar ?

    When you do ATF squats (Hamstrings touching the calves) is it okay to place the barbell like a power squat (low bar)? Or is it recommended high bar ?

    High Bar I'd have to use that foam thing that goes on top of your neck..around the cervical spine.
    Last edited by SkinnySadMan; 06-14-2006 at 02:02 PM.
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  2. #2
    Getting un-streamlined Progress's Avatar
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    A back squat always has the bar resting on your traps; as far back as possible.

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    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Progress
    A back squat always has the bar resting on your traps; as far back as possible.
    Wow, this is both a factually incorrect statement in and of itself, and it is also incorrect advice.

    A back squats always has no such thing.

    As far back as possible (realistically) is a powerlifting position below the traps, resting on the rear delts.

    A typical olympic squat position is high bar placement on the traps.


    For the OP: Whatever is comfortable, but it really depends on the lengths of your levers. I have to place the bar high to squat ATF. More compact people can easily squat ATF with a low bar position.

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    mrelwooddowd Patz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkinnySadMan
    When you do ATF squats (Hamstrings touching the ground) .
    Wow..if you can do this, you're a STUD.
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    LOL! holy crap.. edited now lol. I obviously ment hamstrings to calves
    5'7 425 lbs. 85% bodyfat Need to gain 20-40 lbs.

    New journal - http://wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=86957 Boring I know, but whatever.

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    mrelwooddowd Patz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkinnySadMan
    LOL! holy crap.. edited now lol. I obviously ment hamstrings to calves
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    Another qusetion, maybe it's more easier to keep the back straight (or perhaps arched) with high bar placement ?
    5'7 425 lbs. 85% bodyfat Need to gain 20-40 lbs.

    New journal - http://wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=86957 Boring I know, but whatever.

  8. #8
    Getting un-streamlined Progress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MixmasterNash
    Wow, this is both a factually incorrect statement in and of itself, and it is also incorrect advice.

    A back squats always has no such thing.

    As far back as possible (realistically) is a powerlifting position below the traps, resting on the rear delts.

    A typical olympic squat position is high bar placement on the traps.
    I think you interpreted me incorrectly and/or I didn't explain it properly. When I said all the way back I didn't mean with regards to the traps, rather the entire top of the back/shoulder area. Some people tend to keep the bar on their spine or resting on their neck and then they bend their head forward thus needing a pad. Does this make sense?

    EDIT: Also, I read the OP incorrectly since I thought it was a question about basic squat form, not different bar locations. My bad. I know nothing about bar locations, I just put it on my traps.
    Last edited by Progress; 06-14-2006 at 02:31 PM.

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    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkinnySadMan
    Another qusetion, maybe it's more easier to keep the back straight (or perhaps arched) with high bar placement ?
    For some people (like me), yes, this is true. It's not always the case, though.

    The real answer: try a bunch of different ways with really light weight.

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    mrelwooddowd Patz's Avatar
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    I couldn't specifically tell you guys where I place the bar without grabbing a bar and testing it out. But, I try to always keep in mind with squats, deads--almost anything--that good form and bar placement has the bar moving with little, if any, deviation from a perfectly vertical plane. So if the placement of that bar on your back is keeping you from moving that bar straight up and down, you might need to adjust.
    Last edited by Patz; 06-14-2006 at 02:42 PM.
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    mrelwooddowd Patz's Avatar
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    Actually, I take that back. It pretty much ends up on my rear delts. I can feel a little bruising back there after a squat session most of the time.
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    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrelwooddowd
    But, I try to always keep in mind with squats, deads--almost anything--that good form and bar placement has the bar moving with little, if any, deviation from a perfectly vertical plane.
    This is not necessarily true at all.

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    Iron4Life
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    I am not sure about ever placing it on the neck.. I think you are looking for problems with any placement there...

    But I do mix it up between delts and traps placement...
    usually between sets... until I get close to my maxes.. then I usually stay with the more PL-low placement-just below the traps on the delts.. b/c it feels a little more comfortable for me and force my depth better in the squat and does not allow me to lean forward at all.

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    Anyone else here feel some kind of electric shock pain shooting through your arms while trying to squat (or anything that requires placing a barbell across their neck/upperback area)? I get this sometimes... it's annoying I'd have to rack and wait a bit... re-adjust or something.

    I was getting these "shocks" earlier while trying to do Good mornings. There were shocks going through my left bicep area. I think it was because my arms were pumped from doing chin-ups, then I proceeded with the good mornings. I had to rest a few extra minutes and tried again. Went away.
    5'7 425 lbs. 85% bodyfat Need to gain 20-40 lbs.

    New journal - http://wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=86957 Boring I know, but whatever.

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    Getting un-streamlined Progress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkinnySadMan
    Anyone else here feel some kind of electric shock pain shooting through your arms while trying to squat (or anything that requires placing a barbell across their neck/upperback area)? I get this sometimes... it's annoying I'd have to rack and wait a bit... re-adjust or something.

    I was getting these "shocks" earlier while trying to do Good mornings. There were shocks going through my left bicep area. I think it was because my arms were pumped from doing chin-ups, then I proceeded with the good mornings. I had to rest a few extra minutes and tried again. Went away.
    I've never had that. The only feeling I get is a pull in my chest since I use a shoulder or narrower grip when I do squats.

  16. #16
    Iron4Life
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    SSMan.. i think you need to check that bar positioning... if you are getting a nervous system shock, when something is placed on your spine.. then you have to look at the weakest spot, which would most likely be the neck.. above the traps...

    And if you are doing GMs with the bar on the neck.. then you really are looking for trouble... OUCH.

    Do you have any one in your gym that knows good technique? That can check that bar placement?

    When you grab the bar from the rack, do you let it "slide" down your back into position? Like it starts on the neck and then slides to the traps as you back away?

    Do you do any exercises for the neck?

  17. #17
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    I can't fully describe but I know its low bar, maybe I'll post a pic. There is this kind of groove below my traps where the barbell is. I think my bar placement is fine, although maybe I'll have to make adjustments.... if pics can indicate anything.
    Last edited by SkinnySadMan; 06-15-2006 at 01:20 PM.
    5'7 425 lbs. 85% bodyfat Need to gain 20-40 lbs.

    New journal - http://wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=86957 Boring I know, but whatever.

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    mrelwooddowd Patz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MixmasterNash
    This is not necessarily true at all.
    Yeah. I know it was a little all-encompassing, but I try to approach the lifts that way, if for no other reason than to just keep me thinking about form over ego. You'd also be surprised how well it helps someone keep things strict when they're just learning a movement.
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  19. #19
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    I place it high without pads or foam. But not as high that it would rest on my neck. Behind traps and on deltoids.
    "True disipurine come from within."
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    Here is my bar palcement, maybe it's better if I show it at an angle ?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by SkinnySadMan; 06-15-2006 at 03:54 PM.
    5'7 425 lbs. 85% bodyfat Need to gain 20-40 lbs.

    New journal - http://wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=86957 Boring I know, but whatever.

  21. #21
    Canucks Fan Hockey66's Avatar
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    That is correct placement, but for Oly ATF squats I find it hits my quads much harder using the high-bar placement. I'm a pussy so I have to use the Manta-Ray though.
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    Senior Member MantiXX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkinnySadMan
    Here is my bar palcement, maybe it's better if I show it at an angle ?

    Thanks... I've always been not 100% sure of bar placement...


    Is it just me or does this pick make you look like you've got square earrings on?

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    Bwahaha.. never noticed that... but I guess my head is just barely covering the air conditioner.
    5'7 425 lbs. 85% bodyfat Need to gain 20-40 lbs.

    New journal - http://wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=86957 Boring I know, but whatever.

  24. #24
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    High Bar vs. Low Bar Squatting: http://wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=71389 (I'm going to bump it)

    Like Mix said, some people will be perfectly comfortable squatting "ATF" w. a low bar placement, but many will have an easier time doing it with a high bar placement.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
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