The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
Latest Article

The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
More Recent Articles
Contrast Training for Size
By: Lee Boyce
An Interview with Marianne Kane of Girls Gone Strong
By: Jordan Syatt
What Supplements Should I be Taking? By: Jay Wainwright
Bench Like a Girl By: Julia Ladewski
Some Thoughts on Building a Big Pull By: Christopher Mason

Facebook Join Facebook Group       Twitter Follow on Twitter       rss Subscribe via RSS
Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. #1
    Bismarck in Training emjlr3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Abingdon, MD
    Posts
    802

    Help make womans 2 Day Split

    so my gf has started to go the the gym with me, however she does cardio/abs mon/wed/fri and is going to lift tues and thursday...so I was given the task of desiging a two day split, what I have had her doing so far is this

    tuesday:
    Legs/Arms

    thursday:
    Back/Shoulders/Some Chest

    I have her do 8-12 reps, if she can get 12, go up, if she cant get 8, go down

    A Typical tuesday would be:

    Squatsx3
    SLDL'sX3
    DB Lunges or Butt Machinex3
    (No calves cuz she does stepper 3 times a week for a good 15 minutes, adn that with all the other cardio i think gives her a pretty good calf workout as it is)

    BB curlsx3
    Cable ez bar curls or DB curlsx3
    DB Overhead Tricep Extensionx3
    Cable Push Downs or Machinex3

    Thursday:

    Deadsx3
    Lat Pull Downsx3
    Seated Rowsx2

    DB Shoulder Pressx3
    DB Side/Front Raisesx3
    BB Upright Rowx2

    DB Chest Pressx3
    Machine Flyesx2

    she has been doing this with the cardio and such now for about 3-4 weeks..and although she hasnt lost any weight( already at 5'5" 125lbs), we are starting to see changes in her body for the better, toner thighs/butt/arms/etc.

    Suggestions/comments are greatly appreciated
    Last edited by emjlr3; 06-14-2006 at 09:09 AM.
    Height: 6' 1/2" Age: 24

    Current Status: The brace is off....
    Weight: 208 lbs.

    Back in action...

  2.    Support Wannabebig and use AtLarge Nutrition Supplements!


  3. #2
    Ex-Manwhore KingWilder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    3,055
    1) a lot of ppl complain that upright rows cause shoulder problems
    2) can you not talk her into doing cardio 2 x a week and lifting 3
    3) why such high reps? I would decrease the reps to the 6-8 range and make her lift a little heavier. She might see better results with this (as far as looking "toned"..I can't even believe I just said "toned")
    4) none of this matters if her diet isn't in check...what's it look like
    5'10", 170lbs, 10% bf

    Bench:255 Squat:295 Dead:400
    Snatch:145 C&J: 205
    Chin-Up: +135 Dip: +100
    Max Pull-Ups: 44

    CrossFit Lv. 1, ACE-CPT

    You want our weapons!? Come and get them!

  4. #3
    considering lipo Skinny Fat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    O - HI - O
    Posts
    534
    Personally, I'd just give her a full-body routine and let it go with that, if she only wants to lift twice a week. Something like:

    Squat
    Bench
    Row
    Pull-up
    OH Press
    Deadlift

    or

    OH Squat
    Bench
    Row
    OH Press
    Pull-up
    Cleans

    or

    Lunges
    Bench
    Row
    OH Press
    Pull-up
    SLDL

    Get her doing that twice a week, and she'll actually get stronger.
    Last edited by Skinny Fat; 06-14-2006 at 09:25 AM.

    Don't ask for a lighter load. Ask for a stronger back.


  5. #4
    Bismarck in Training emjlr3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Abingdon, MD
    Posts
    802
    1) a lot of ppl complain that upright rows cause shoulder problems
    2) can you not talk her into doing cardio 2 x a week and lifting 3
    3) why such high reps? I would decrease the reps to the 6-8 range and make her lift a little heavier. She might see better results with this (as far as looking "toned"..I can't even believe I just said "toned")
    4) none of this matters if her diet isn't in check...what's it look like
    1. no problems so far for either of us
    2. she is more interested in loosing pounds ( getting thinner, more "toned") then she is with gaining/building muscle, thus she does more cardio then lifting, but still lifts mind you
    3. meh....we'll see, i think ima keep her where she is
    4. her diet is sufficient I think, not great, but not bad either

    ive got her at about a 1250-1500 calorie diet(for cutting)

    she usually gets a good 4 meals per day, prolly about a 60(c)-25(p)-15 split

    like I said, not great, but I do get her eating much better food then she used to, and actually eating breakfast now

    @Skinny...I was thinking that myself

    maybe I'll swithc it up and go to that after a month, and vice versa, see how it goes

    any other ideas/suggestions/comments?
    Height: 6' 1/2" Age: 24

    Current Status: The brace is off....
    Weight: 208 lbs.

    Back in action...

  6. #5
    Bismarck in Training emjlr3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Abingdon, MD
    Posts
    802
    bump
    Height: 6' 1/2" Age: 24

    Current Status: The brace is off....
    Weight: 208 lbs.

    Back in action...

  7. #6
    HS Football D Breyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Mlps, MN
    Posts
    1,311
    Just wait until built sees this thread, she'll have the answers...

    From what I see, I think shes doing too much cardio and has too low of calories.
    6'1 - 195
    Crossfit Total: Press: 135 - Squat: 315 - Deadlift: 365
    Competition Lifts: Clean: 205 - Bench: 205

  8. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    0
    You didnt tell us her height/weight or approx body fat!

  9. #8
    Information Sinkhole Absolute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    113
    *cringes at the excessive use of "toned"*

    Quote Originally Posted by emjlr3
    ( already at 5'5" 125lbs)
    Only didn't tell approx. body fat.

    I'm going to let Built handle this one. However, I do agree with King on trying to get her to lift 3x a week.
    SAM and FRODO tie up GOLLUM.
    GOLLUM: No! Smeagol not into ropes, nassty kinky hobbitses.
    FRODO: We just want you to take us to Mordor, you sicko.
    GOLLUM: Mordor? Hobbitses having little Goth phase, maybe? Very angsssty, wanting to go to Mordor, yes yes. Can Smeagol offer black eyeliner to angsssty hobbitses?
    SAM: You stop talking to Mr.--hmm. (to FRODO) You know, you wouldn't look half bad in eyeliner.

  10. #9
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    9,912
    Hi there

    Cardio won't lean her out. The rules aren't different for women and men - just the endocrine profile.

    She won't bulk up because
    a) she's female
    b) she's on a diet

    Her rep range is too high for a cut. Stick to 5-8 reps at the most, 20 or fewer sets per workout.

    Too much direct bicep work.

    Too much direct ab work.

    Too much cardio.

    CALS ARE FAR TOO LOW.

    How much protein, carb and fat is she consuming?

    Honestly, the suggestions given here have been good ones - just like for the fellas, keep the iron on the bar (this developes "tone", not the higher rep stuff), limit and vary cardio, short heavy sets of ab work once or twice a week, no direct arm work required on a cut. Concentrate on heavy squats, RDLs, chins/assisted chins, vertical and horizontal pushing and pulling.

  11. #10
    Bismarck in Training emjlr3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Abingdon, MD
    Posts
    802
    finally the Built one has spoken...where to begin

    Just wait until built sees this thread, she'll have the answers...

    From what I see, I think shes doing too much cardio and has too low of calories.
    well the purpose of her at the gym is to make her self look better, she is, like I said more concerned with leaning out then getting bigger, 3 days a week of cardio I don't think is too much, I did more when I cut, and I think the calories are about right

    her bmr found with this equation

    1. You weight in pounds divided by 2.2

    2. Your height in inches X 2.54

    3. 9.6 X # from step 1

    4. 1.8 X # from step 2

    5. 4.7 X your age in years

    6. 655 + the # from step 3 + the # from step 4 - the # from step 5 = your resting metabolic rate.

    7. Multiply your RMR by your appropiate activity factor
    sedentary X by 1.2
    slightly active X 1.375
    moderately active X 1.55
    very active X 1.725

    RMR X activity level = amount of calories to maintain your weight.

    plus 500 calories to bulk
    minus 500 calories to cut.
    was about 1650, if I remember correctly, so I told her, since she is hitting the gym everyday, to go for 1250-1500, thsi coupled with eating well, hitting the gym, and supplements should have doo the trick

    Only didn't tell approx. body fat.

    I'm going to let Built handle this one. However, I do agree with King on trying to get her to lift 3x a week.
    shes like 5'5.5" and 15, body fat is pretty low, nothing like Built during a cut, but she deff isn't fat, if I had to guess I'd say mid 20s, however at Curves a little while back she tested at 20, but I think that is too low, cuz isnt 20 like really low for a girl?

    Hi there

    Cardio won't lean her out. The rules aren't different for women and men - just the endocrine profile.

    She won't bulk up because
    a) she's female
    b) she's on a diet

    Her rep range is too high for a cut. Stick to 5-8 reps at the most, 20 or fewer sets per workout.

    Too much direct bicep work.

    Too much direct ab work.

    Too much cardio.

    CALS ARE FAR TOO LOW.

    How much protein, carb and fat is she consuming?

    Honestly, the suggestions given here have been good ones - just like for the fellas, keep the iron on the bar (this developes "tone", not the higher rep stuff), limit and vary cardio, short heavy sets of ab work once or twice a week, no direct arm work required on a cut. Concentrate on heavy squats, RDLs, chins/assisted chins, vertical and horizontal pushing and pulling.
    my whole phylosophy when starting her was to try and get her to do what I did when I leaned down a whole lot, eat great, still lift 4 times a week, and do cardio 3 times a week, and supplement

    she can only make it to the gym once a day, so we go 5 times a week, and since the goal was to lean down more then to put on muscle mass, i opted for mroe cardio then lifting

    plz explain, y would cardio not lean her out? and y would lifting lean her out better?

    and she understands that she will not bulk, cuz yes she is female, and yes she is cutting, thus that is covered

    5-8, that sounds like what I do, y do u suggest 5-8 over 8-12, this may be wrong, but I always thought, even the slightest bit, that lower reps helped strength more where higher reps, to an extent helped muscle mass more

    and i believe im keeping her at like 18 sets or so per workout

    why too much cardio? what is wrong with 3 days/ week? she also does it for the heart benefits

    again like stated, her bmr was about 1650, so i put her on between 1250-1500

    per % are not great, she eats to little protein, however she will not eat as hardcore as I do, as in, she won't take a lunch of chickpeas, greenbeans, carrots and tuna, no seasoning

    a typical day is prolly like 15%F, 20%P, 55%C , I realize her carbs should be lower and protein sould be higher, but I try to get her to that point as best as I can

    what are RDL's?

    is there somewhere I can get a copy of exactly what you do on a cut?

    I am thinking about getting her into HIIT for cardio, which I think may help as well


    TY much for all the responses everyone
    Last edited by emjlr3; 06-17-2006 at 04:49 PM.
    Height: 6' 1/2" Age: 24

    Current Status: The brace is off....
    Weight: 208 lbs.

    Back in action...

  12. #11

  13. #12
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    9,912
    Quote Originally Posted by emjlr3
    finally the Built one has spoken...where to begin
    LOL!

    Quote Originally Posted by emjlr3
    well the purpose of her at the gym is to make her self look better, she is, like I said more concerned with leaning out then getting bigger, 3 days a week of cardio I don't think is too much, I did more when I cut, and I think the calories are about right
    Okay - let's stop right here.

    I didn't say don't do any cardio. But don't START with it - I started cutting May 1st, and I STILL haven't added in any cardio. Save it for the end of the cut, when she can't bear to drop calories further. Start with it, and you'll have nowhere to go but MORE. <yuck>

    Quote Originally Posted by emjlr3

    her bmr found with this equation

    1. You weight in pounds divided by 2.2

    2. Your height in inches X 2.54

    3. 9.6 X # from step 1

    4. 1.8 X # from step 2

    5. 4.7 X your age in years

    6. 655 + the # from step 3 + the # from step 4 - the # from step 5 = your resting metabolic rate.

    7. Multiply your RMR by your appropiate activity factor
    sedentary X by 1.2
    slightly active X 1.375
    moderately active X 1.55
    very active X 1.725

    RMR X activity level = amount of calories to maintain your weight.

    plus 500 calories to bulk
    minus 500 calories to cut.
    was about 1650, if I remember correctly, so I told her, since she is hitting the gym everyday, to go for 1250-1500, thsi coupled with eating well, hitting the gym, and supplements should have doo the trick
    500 calories off a 3000-a-day, 200-lb man's diet is reasonable.

    Off baseline calories of 1650, creating a 500-calorie-per-day deficit means almost a 30% drop - WAY too low. Not at ALL reasonable.

    And I'm not at all comfortable with these calculators - they fit population averages, not individuals.

    The only way to really know maintenance for an individual is to TRACK. There's really NO substitute for this step.

    (As an aside - I'm a middle-aged women with 115 lbs LBM, and MY maintenance calories are between 2300 and 2500 a day. 1650 at her age and size sounds crazy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by emjlr3
    shes like 5'5.5" and 15, body fat is pretty low, nothing like Built during a cut, but she deff isn't fat, if I had to guess I'd say mid 20s, however at Curves a little while back she tested at 20, but I think that is too low, cuz isnt 20 like really low for a girl?
    20 is on the low end of normal - not particularly lean, but not fat. I got up to 21% this last bulk. I'm 14% in my "end of cut" pix in November.

    Quote Originally Posted by emjlr3
    my whole phylosophy when starting her was to try and get her to do what I did when I leaned down a whole lot, eat great, still lift 4 times a week, and do cardio 3 times a week, and supplement
    It's a thoughtful approach, but ... you're male. You have a LOT more test to protect your LBM. She doesn't. And the caloric deficit you have her on, coupled with her female endocrine profile, means this approach will chew through muscle and convince her body to CLING to fat.

    I know. It's frustrating.

    Quote Originally Posted by emjlr3

    she can only make it to the gym once a day, so we go 5 times a week, and since the goal was to lean down more then to put on muscle mass, i opted for mroe cardio then lifting
    This is a typical approach, and well-supported by the mainstream fitness industry. It doesn't work very well, but you'll see people recommending it nonetheless. They mean well, but they're confused.

    Quote Originally Posted by emjlr3

    plz explain, y would cardio not lean her out? and y would lifting lean her out better?
    On a cut, you don't have enough calories to support your whole body.

    Your body has to toss out sources of energy drain. Muscle is more of a luxury since it burns off more fuel. So your body wants to drop muscle.

    Do cardio, and the body gets an EXTRA signal to toss muscle.

    So you lose WEIGHT, but end up smaller and softer, not harder and leaner. This does NOT result in the "toned" look most women are after - in fact, quite the opposite.

    Quote Originally Posted by emjlr3

    and she understands that she will not bulk, cuz yes she is female, and yes she is cutting, thus that is covered
    Good. She CAN bulk as a female, but it's REALLY tough, and it requires deliberate weight gain. And even then, it's inefficient as hell - I might have put on 4 lbs of LBM in 6 months of bulking, and I had to gain 17 lbs in total to achieve this.

    Sucks to be female, hey?

    Quote Originally Posted by emjlr3

    5-8, that sounds like what I do, y do u suggest 5-8 over 8-12, this may be wrong, but I always thought, even the slightest bit, that lower reps helped strength more where higher reps, to an extent helped muscle mass more
    You can't gain muscle on a cut.

    You can't gain muscle on a cut.

    You can't gain muscle on a cut.

    This is your new mantra. Teach it to her.

    Since there is NO rep range that can bulk her up on a cut, stick to the one that will make her hard and protect her LBM - short, heavy sets.

    Is it starting to make better sense now?

    Quote Originally Posted by emjlr3

    and i believe im keeping her at like 18 sets or so per workout

    why too much cardio? what is wrong with 3 days/ week?
    Just don't START with it.

    Leave cardio to the END, when she stalls and you don't want to drop her cals much lower.

    Quote Originally Posted by emjlr3

    again like stated, her bmr was about 1650, so i put her on between 1250-1500
    See above for my comment on why this is too much of a drop.

    Quote Originally Posted by emjlr3

    per % are not great, she eats to little protein, however she will not eat as hardcore as I do, as in, she won't take a lunch of chickpeas, greenbeans, carrots and tuna, no seasoning

    a typical day is prolly like 15%F, 20%P, 55%C , I realize her carbs should be lower and protein sould be higher, but I try to get her to that point as best as I can
    PLEASE stay away from macronutrient percentages - and these ones are BEYOND ridiculous on a cut.

    I'll explain.

    I don't know what her LBM is, but assuming it's 100 lbs (80% of 125), she'll need at least 100g protein and at least 50g fat to support and protect her muscles while she cuts.

    On your diet, at 1400 calories, this is where her calories come from (and I'm assuming you meant 30% protein, not 20%):

    105g protein (30% of cals)
    23 g fat (15% of cals)
    193g carbohydrate (55% of cals)
    1400 calories

    Her fats are less then HALF of what is minimally sufficient.

    I'd personally change her cals to 1600 for now, with the following breakdown:

    133g protein (33%)
    59g fat (33%)
    133g carbohydrate (33%)
    1600 calories in total

    Isocaloric is a nice place to start because it leaves wiggle-room as you find your comfort levels within the macros.

    Monitor how she feels on this, and how her body responds. If she feels she needs more carb, lower the fats down to 50g at the lowest, and if she STILL feels she needs more carb, lower the protein down to 100g at the lowest.

    When it's time to lower calories, drop them by 100, sticking to the 100g protein and 50g fat guidelines as minimums.

    Quote Originally Posted by emjlr3

    what are RDL's?
    My favourite hamstring/posterior chain movement, the Romanian Deadlift

    It's what I named Baby Got Back after. I strongly urge you to put your GF on BGB - it works GREAT for cutting, and with 5 days a week at the gym, she could use the 5th day to do a little cardio if she really WANTED to. That's all the cardio I'd start with, personally. No more than half an hour.

    Quote Originally Posted by emjlr3
    is there somewhere I can get a copy of exactly what you do on a cut?
    Linksin my sig to how I set up my cutting diet, and my May 1st and most recent gym log entries will give you some more help here.
    Quote Originally Posted by emjlr3

    I am thinking about getting her into HIIT for cardio, which I think may help as well
    TY much for all the responses everyone
    LATER! Leave the cardio for the end, but yes, a session or two of HIIT toward the end might prove most beneficial.

  14. #13
    Bismarck in Training emjlr3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Abingdon, MD
    Posts
    802
    wow, nice post, now I see why you have the quotes that you do in your sig...
    Height: 6' 1/2" Age: 24

    Current Status: The brace is off....
    Weight: 208 lbs.

    Back in action...

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •