Right now I'm 5'9", 167lbs. I'd guess I'm at about 10% bf. This past bulk, I used WBB routine #1, and got myself up to 190. I was able to increase reps or weight every week for the first 5 weeks or so but then had trouble for the last couple weeks. I was doing every set to failure (which I now realize was bad) and in the last couple weeks I remember feeling fatigued early during every workout so strength actually went down a bit.
So here I am at 167lbs, and I look pretty much exactly the same as I did the year before (so I think i only gained a negligible amount of muscle, maybe 1-2lbs). My protein intake was at about 1g protein/1lb body weight, I gained plenty of strength, and when I dieted I didn't starve myself right away, I lost about 1-2lbs a week and kept my protein intake at about .75g protein/lb body weight.
So I'm getting ready to bulk again, and I'm going to try and bulk much cleaner/slower than I did last time, but where did I most likely go wrong, or does this sound like an average bulk cycle? Thx in advance for the help.
Your post wasn't clear. You went from 167 to 190 to 167 and you look the same?
you probably ate too much
Sorry...Originally Posted by Anthony
I started at around 170 and went into a bulk and got to 190. When I cut, I got down to 167, and while I look slimmer, I'm about the same size (I looked the same as before at 170 during my diet). I'm just making sure it's normal for a bulk cycle to only add 1-2lbs of muscle (which wouldn't really be a visible change), or if I did something wrong and should've added more muscle. Thx.
i'm curious, what did you do during your cut.. what was your diet and routine?
"I lost about 1-2lbs a week and kept my protein intake at about .75g protein/lb body weight. " i'm no dietician expert but that's pretty low protein intake during a cut.
I don't think people gaining 1-2 lbs of muscles on a bulk cycle is average at at.
Post up your routine and diet during your cut and you'll lprobably get more response.
This is my thinking on protein intake:Originally Posted by DNL
"So how can we translate this number to his protein needs? The RDA for protein has been established at 0.8 grams/kg of body weight for adults. This is not enough to build muscle mass for intense athletes. Although it's difficult to pinpoint a specific number because you have to take into account many variables, research has determined an acceptable range: even at the very high end, the top protein intake needs to be 1.5 - 2.0 g/kg of body weight. For our 180 lb. (divided by 2.2 = 82 kg) lifter, this would be 122 - 164 grams of protein per day. Since protein has 4 calories per gram, then this amount of protein would comprise 13 - 18 percent of his daily caloric intake of 3700 calories; the usual recommendation is about 12 - 15 percent. As you can see, a huge excess of protein is not needed."
So during my cut I was well above where I needed to be on protein.
I think since I made nice gains for 5-6 weeks, my protein/calorie intake was fine. I think it was just that I was going to failure on every set, every week, and my body got fatigued and stopped making gains. Sound reasonable?
No, it doesn't sound reasonable. Hitting a plateau is only slightly related to your diet. If you went from 170-->190-->167, you screwed up. Plain and simple.
The RDA is what you need to avoid health problems. It is not ideal for a normal person, let alone someone who is weight training.
And we would also need to know a lot more information, like total calories, total fat, total protein, total carbs, lifting routine, work routine, sleep pattern, etc.
Last edited by Anthony; 07-12-2006 at 12:37 PM.
When I was 170, I was at a higher bf %. If I started at 167, I would look about the same as I do now (maybe 1-2lbs more muscle as I mentioned).Originally Posted by Anthony
8 hours of sleep every night. Already mentioned the lifting routine (WBB1). If I had to guess on my diet I would say it was 40% carbs, 30% protein, 30% fat. I used fit day at the time and remember seeing that ratio quite often.
I'm not sure why you are saying that wasn't reasonable. I said that because I was going to failure on every set, that's the reason I stopped making gains and didn't continue building muscle, I didn't say anything about my diet being the reason, unless you were directing that to someone else. That's the only variable I see as potentially being the problem.
So I ate adequate protein/carbs/fat (around 190g of protein at my peak), got adequate sleep, routine was fine... the only variable I see is that I was going to failure on everything and burned out towards the end, so I didn't gain as much muscle as I should've during that time.
probably a comibination of diet and always overtaxing your CNS...I still don't see how you can gain 20 lbs and ONLY have 1-2 of it be muscle unless you're just totally eating wrong
5'10", 170lbs, 10% bf
Bench:255 Squat:295 Dead:400
Snatch:145 C&J: 205
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Either you completely messed the bulk up, completely messed the cut up, or both. If you gain 20lbs, I would expect depending on how fast you do it, atleast 10lbs of it would be LBM, if not more. When you cut, if you do it right you may lose 1-2 of that if you do it correctly. Something isn't right here.
It's not reasonable for a fairly new weight lifter to gain 2lbs of lean body mass over the span of 8 weeks. 2 weeks, sure. 8 weeks, something is wrong.
It's not reasonable for anyone to gain 18lbs of fat and 2lbs of lbm.
Last edited by Anthony; 07-12-2006 at 01:12 PM.
Yeah even when teenagers in a high school weight room screw around benching and curling they would probably gain more muscle than 1-2 lbs.
Last edited by fixationdarknes; 07-12-2006 at 01:39 PM.
Age: 20, Height: 5'7", Weight: 165, Deadlift: 405, 9.5" Squat: 230 x 10, Bench: 195 (3x5)
Originally Posted by fatrb38
I think someone doing nothing would gain more then 1-2lbs just from carrying the extra 18lbs of fat around.
Gaining 20lbs of muscle and losing it all, I couldn't mess it up that badly if I tried. I mean, surely you could you see this was happening as you were losing the muscle you had gained?
It should have been obvious to you that something wasn't right about your cutting regime, and you should have fixed it sooner reather than later.
Maybe it's not as bad as I think....
I remember when I was cutting, I could do just as much weight as I could during my bulk until I was around 175 (14% bf or so). Then I had to cut calories down to about 1500-1600 and I started feeling tired in my workouts and couldn't do as much weight. I also reduced the amount of reps and the intensity I used during workouts.
Is it possible that b/c I'm dieting and not working out as hard, my muscles just "appear" smaller? I'm about to start a bulk so I guess I will find out a lot if I can jump right back into the max weight I was doing at the end of the bulk.
The problem is obvious... You didn't take in enough protein and your diet sucked. Don't try to defend this. I know your diet sucked because you are guessing at percentages and haven't even put out calories or how you cut. I can still tell you exactly what I did on my last cut:
First 3 weeks 2800cals
3 weeks 2500 cals
2 weeks 2300 cals
2 weeks 2000 cals
Even when I was down at 2000 cals I was getting ATLEAST 200g of protein a day. It was very hard for me to plan a daily diet because I was on a meal plan at university but I still tracked everything and would sit down with a can of tuna for supper if that's what it took.
Next time around worry more about your diet. It makes a HUGE difference!
Squat - 595lbs -- 270kg -- Dec. 31, '09 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
Bench - 374lbs -- 170kg -- Dec 20, '08 (@100kg class)
Dead - 589lbs -- 267.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
Total: 1537lbs -- 697.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)
Bench Only -- 358lbs -- 162.5kg -- Nov. 25, '07 (Provincial Record @ 90kg class)
Bench Only -- 376lbs -- 171kg -- Jan. 26, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)
while I agree the diet was poor, what were your workouts like? were you lifting in the 4-6 rep range, or 8-12 range?
the former emphasizes strength gains, while the latter focuses on hypertrophy/lean muscle gains.
Do you have before and after pics? Those might help clear things up.
I don't think it was a matter of not gaining muscle - I think you lost muscle on your cut. Were you doing cardio? If so, what? That could be the source of muscle loss.
You gaine 20 lbs in about 7 weeks, which is an average of 3 lbs per week. That's a little on the high side, which suggests that you may have gained more fat than you bargained for. How long was your cut? A short cut may have caused a more significant loss in muscle mass.
I also agree with the others that a more detailed outline of your diet would help.
The cut was very long. Took me about 4 months to get to where I am.
I think I'm satisfied enough with the following reasons:
1. Need more protein during my cut/bulk. I'll aim for 1.5g/lb and keep my mac ratio where it is.
2. Don't train every set to failure.
I also have a feeling that as soon as I start lifting heavy again, the muscles will swell and look bigger while resting. Maybe I gained more than I realize but since my workouts are weak right now b/c I have no energy, my muscles just look smaller to me b/c they aren't being stimulated properly. Does that make sense?
I think I have 2 pics I can show for a before an after. It will have to wait until I get home though... Thx for the replies!
Last edited by Paladyr; 07-12-2006 at 02:51 PM.
It could also just all be in your head - since you're just gauging your own size by looking in the mirror (which has a way of tricking you), try comparing before/after shots.
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Yep it's all in my head. Just pulled up a pic from june of last year and compared it to a shot i took tonight. In a shot from the side, I can see that my pecs and arms are bigger, even though my stomach is smaller.Originally Posted by McIrish
phew! Still, I gotta stop training to failure b/c I think that's what caused me to burn out. I could've gained more had I known that!!!!
No.Originally Posted by Paladyr
Get away from the macronutrient ratio concept.
Just make sure you're getting in no less than a gram of protein per pound LBM, and no less than half a gram of fat per pound LBM, and fill up the rest of your calorie allowance with whatever combination of protein, carb and fat keeps you comfortable, whether bulking, cutting, or maintaining.
That way, you don't risk going too high on protein on a bulk, and more importantly, you don't risk going too low on protein or fat on a cut.
A dressfitters tape measure (the loose string type) costs less than a dollar.
yea that's a good point. As I was designing my diet, I realized I couldn't get the protein I wanted, and keep the ratio, AND stay under my caloric max.Originally Posted by Built
So I'll go with pretty close to 1.5g/lb body weight of protein, and do like you said.
Thanks again everyone! Oh and I'll go buy a tape measure :-P.