The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Grammar Nazi BG5150's Avatar
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    What programming language to learn?

    I want to learn a programming language. Not for anything in particular, but just because I want to. I had some BASIC classes in high school (way back in the 80's) and some FORTRAN in college, so I'm not a complete newb.

    I'd like something challenging (though not hella tough) and somewhat useful--nothing obscure or useless like BlooP or PATH.

    Some things I was tossing around:

    C++
    Java
    Objective C
    Python

    Any thoughts?

    I have a Mac so the .NET and VB stuff is out.

    PS: and, yes, I did say "hella". I'm so embarassed...
    There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left.
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  3. #2
    Senior Member BilltheButcher's Avatar
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    I program in Cold Fusion, PHP, ASP. I tried Java and C, but I sucked at it, so I went back to the easy stuff. Right now I am trying to interface, with Google, MSN and Overture pay-per-click and I am now looking at a C solution, since cold fusion has been pretty unsuccessful.

    I would say Java would be a fun language to use.
    Never shall innocent blood be shed, yet the blood of the wicked shall flow like a river. The Three shall spread their blackened wings and be the vengeful striking hammer of God.

  4. #3
    Senior Member Teufelhund's Avatar
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    Java would set you up with a good base if you ever do decide to hit .Net, plus its cross platform so you can run it anywhere without the need to recompile.

    I love C++ because you can get as high or low level as you want with it, but using that ability definitely limits portability.

  5. #4
    eek... it's lil' Fixation! fixationdarknes's Avatar
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    I say hit up some Java. I did that this past year at my high school, and now as I'm starting to look at some C++ it's pretty similar stuff. So, all you really need to learn is new syntax.
    Lifting Journal
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatrb38
    I try to visualize that my girlfriend is under the weight and I have to push the weight up to save her. Of course it doesn't work and I just laugh as I think about the weight slowly crushing her bones. Then I remember it's me under the weight and give 200% effort to push it back up.

  6. #5
    Journalist galileo's Avatar
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    C++ or Java will serve you well moving forward because of OOP and how similar .NET languages are to them.

    I like C#. I do.

  7. #6
    Back in business WBBIRL's Avatar
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    I hated Java, but I only ever learned simple stuff. We learned how to make java pop ups and prompts.

    C++ would be good to learn, PHP and all that jazz.

  8. #7
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    Ruby on Rails if you want to do web stuff. It's damn slick.

  9. #8

  10. #9
    Wannabebig Member
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    Body Builders that program? :O

    Learn Java. If you want to do web stuff, go for PHP/MySQL.

  11. #10
    Senior Member shootermcgavin7's Avatar
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    If you can learn C++ first you'll be able to transfer that knowledge to any other OOP language down the road.

  12. #11
    eek... it's lil' Fixation! fixationdarknes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shootermcgavin7
    If you can learn C++ first you'll be able to transfer that knowledge to any other OOP language down the road.
    Java's pretty similar too in that aspect.
    Last edited by fixationdarknes; 07-16-2006 at 02:13 PM.
    Lifting Journal
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatrb38
    I try to visualize that my girlfriend is under the weight and I have to push the weight up to save her. Of course it doesn't work and I just laugh as I think about the weight slowly crushing her bones. Then I remember it's me under the weight and give 200% effort to push it back up.

  13. #12
    Senior Member Nongan's Avatar
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    I would recommend C/C++ first, and then do PHP/MySQL. C++ and PHP are very similar, and will allow you to expand to other languages pretty easily. If you can do C++ well, you can breeze through VB w/o a problem.
    Age: 18
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    BF: 12%
    Bench: 175
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    Deadlift: soon...
    Time Lifting: 2 yrs.
    Started as a skinny 95 pound wimp.

  14. #13
    nosce te ipsum care_bear's Avatar
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    i did 8086 assembly language in my 2nd year of college and fell in love with it...600 lines of code just to count letters in a sentence and other stuff...got me a well deserve 95% for...he never told why i didn't get 100%...i think it was a grudge though
    started june 06
    now weigh 180lbs 5'4
    age 26
    bench 240lbs
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    seated shoulder press 85lbs (each arm)

  15. #14
    fat and small Blood&Iron's Avatar
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    Machine code. Real men program in 1s and 0s. **** that pussy ass compiled ****.

    Joking aside, I vote C++, because it forces you to learn about things like memory management that are just "magic" in Java, while still being an OO language (as opposed to C). In terms of wide-spread usage, though, Java is probably a better choice.

    If you're serious about things (i.e. you want to do something more than just **** around), more important than the specifics of any particular language are the underlying concepts. Object-orientation, encapsulation, blah, blah, blah. Language is something of an irrelevance. Certain languages are better teaching tools in this regard than others, though.

    We tend to think of Sisyphus as a tragic hero, condemned by the gods to shoulder his rock sweatily up the mountain, and again up the mountain, forever. The truth is that Sisyphus is in love with the rock. He cherishes every roughness and every ounce of it. He talks to it, sings to it. It has become the mysterious Other. He even dreams of it as he sleepwalks upward. Life is unimaginable without it, looming always above him like a huge gray moon. He doesnít realize that at any moment he is permitted to step aside, let the rock hurtle to the bottom, and go home.

    Parables and Portraits, Stephen Mitchell

  16. #15
    Senior Member shootermcgavin7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fixationdarknes
    Java's pretty similar too in that aspect.
    I think that the lower-level OOP languages are more useful because it basically forces you to understand how classes, etc work whereas in Java you only need to know how to call them. I originally learned C so the object oriented aspect is a big deal; I think it is helpful down the road to understand it intimately.

  17. #16
    Bulk + Milk
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    Quote Originally Posted by nawmean
    Learn Java. If you want to do web stuff, go for PHP/MySQL.
    Bingo. C++ is good too, but IMO the Java programming environment is a little easier to set up, and you have the advantage of the API being online, which you can use to reference all the classes and their methods. (Just Google "Java API")

    PHP/MySQL will give you instant web-based results. Last year I made a web-based expense tracking system for my roommates and myself to use. We'd enter the bills we payed and it would figure out who owed who what amount to even it out, which was pretty sweet. It sure beat using a whiteboard and calculator. I'd say the first step though would be Java or C++. Those skills will transfer well to almost any object-oriented or procedural language.
    My journey to a solid 180lbs: Bulk + Milk

    PRs / Short-term goals
    Bench: 205x1 / 225x1
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  18. #17
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    Would anyone have some suggestions for someone just wanting to get into programming? I'm really wanting to program or design 3D characters for video games when I get older, and I just want to brush up now.

  19. #18
    Senior Member dissipate's Avatar
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    like shooterm, i'd go for c/c++... do these and everything else will be easy

    if you do java first and want to do c/c++ one day, you might find it difficult..

  20. #19
    Wannabebig Member
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    PHP + MySQL
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    8 January - 94kg @ 17.5%
    19 February - 93kg @ 13.5%

  21. #20
    Iron4Life
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    I've hired about 15 developers over the last 6 yrs or so.. those that have a firm understanding of C/C++ were better equiped for taking on new challenges.. and even out performed the Java trained guys on Java projects...

    So my recommendation would be C++ first, then Java...
    kinda backing up from the management side what some of the developers above have stated...
    Last edited by Bob; 07-17-2006 at 08:31 AM.

  22. #21
    260(-62) from 193 from 275
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    Quote Originally Posted by bearwolf
    I've hired about 15 developers over the last 6 yrs or so.. those that have a firm understanding of C/C++ were better equiped for taking on new challenges
    The college progam I chose was heavily based in C. After making a huge windows program with it I felt I could do anything. So far I have been able to.

    Even though I use vb now it enhanced my understanding of computer science so much it was great. I do everything in vb the way I did C++/MFC. I use a ton of pointers and dialogues the way C does.


    Quote Originally Posted by xian
    C++ or Java will serve you well moving forward because of OOP and how similar .NET languages are to them.

    I like C#. I do.
    This is so true. I use vb.net and it has stolen all the cool stuff from Java and C++.


    If it's just for fun phyton is fun. You can make windows programs with a tookit called TK Inter. You can write CGI to do web based stuff as well. I believe you can even inline it now also.

    It's well supported and python.org is a killer site.

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  23. #22
    eek... it's lil' Fixation! fixationdarknes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissipate
    if you do java first and want to do c/c++ one day, you might find it difficult..
    Why? They're similar in logic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatrb38
    I try to visualize that my girlfriend is under the weight and I have to push the weight up to save her. Of course it doesn't work and I just laugh as I think about the weight slowly crushing her bones. Then I remember it's me under the weight and give 200% effort to push it back up.

  24. #23
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    I vote Java for a complete beginner. C/C++ is ridiculous for a beginner simply because of the compilation errors. Beginners don't even remember they need a semicolon at the end of a line, never mind trying to track one down in 100+ lines of code with no help from the compiler. It also highlights the important aspects of OOP in a newbie-friendly manner.

  25. #24
    Iron4Life
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSpikeyThing
    I vote Java for a complete beginner. C/C++ is ridiculous for a beginner simply because of the compilation errors. Beginners don't even remember they need a semicolon at the end of a line, never mind trying to track one down in 100+ lines of code with no help from the compiler. It also highlights the important aspects of OOP in a newbie-friendly manner.
    This is one of the reasons why the best programmers are off-shore... and not in North America...
    We don't make the effort to learn the basics... and learn them throughly..

    RedSpikey and Fixation.. how old are you guys? I am willing to bet teenagers.. and not that that is bad.. but if you want any kind of wildly successful career as developers, learn the basics, learn what is essential, learn by trial and error, learn how to troubleshoot, learn hard core - just like lifting hard core.

    I'll make another bold statement.. the absolute best programmers I ever hired or work with.. were the ones who knew assembly first.. then C++, java, Visual Basic were all easy then. 2 of them went on to be multi-millionaires with the evil empire.

    Good luck guys..

  26. #25
    fat and small Blood&Iron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSpikeyThing
    I vote Java for a complete beginner. C/C++ is ridiculous for a beginner simply because of the compilation errors. Beginners don't even remember they need a semicolon at the end of a line, never mind trying to track one down in 100+ lines of code with no help from the compiler. It also highlights the important aspects of OOP in a newbie-friendly manner.
    This makes no sense. If you're using a modern IDE, Java and C++ will return fairly similar types of compilation errors. Pretty much any compiled language will--even if you aren't using an IDE.

    If someone is *truly* interested in programming, the language he chooses is really a minor detail IMO. Learning a language, any language, is trivial. Mastering it, of course, is another thing. But the most important (and difficult) things one must learn are the fundamental concepts of computer science: algorithms, data structures, computational complexity, etc. Even these, I'd class as somewhat superficial. The thing that separates *great* programmers from 'hackers' (I'm using the term disparagingly here) is the ability to analyze a problem and work through it outside of any language. The most valuable thing an education in computer science can ever offer is not any language specific construct, but how to *think*.
    Last edited by Blood&Iron; 07-18-2006 at 10:13 PM.

    We tend to think of Sisyphus as a tragic hero, condemned by the gods to shoulder his rock sweatily up the mountain, and again up the mountain, forever. The truth is that Sisyphus is in love with the rock. He cherishes every roughness and every ounce of it. He talks to it, sings to it. It has become the mysterious Other. He even dreams of it as he sleepwalks upward. Life is unimaginable without it, looming always above him like a huge gray moon. He doesnít realize that at any moment he is permitted to step aside, let the rock hurtle to the bottom, and go home.

    Parables and Portraits, Stephen Mitchell

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