The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Wannabebig Member
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    Has anybody tried any of the explosive programs for vertical leap?

    I was just wondering if any of you guys have done any of these programs like increase your vertical leap or your 40 time. ive seen acouple of these trainers online such as luke lowery and Kelly braggett who say they can do it so i was wondering if anybody has done it. I really want to know
    Last edited by droman; 08-16-2006 at 01:00 PM.

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  3. #2
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    I have tried the jumpsoles but that really isn't the same. Although i did gain about 5 inches on there program in about 2 months but it went away quickly when i stopped doing the program. I know somebody has tried one of these programs.

  4. #3
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    I own the vertical jump and 40yd dash booklets that were put out by Martin Rooney and Joe DeFranco. They were pretty easy reads and easy to implement with some high school basketball and football players. The kids made pretty good progress, but then again high schoolers will gain on just about anything...

    I don't know if they have newer editions of these, but I'd recommend them if they do. The 2002 edition doesn't have pictures and that was something that really frustrated me...
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  5. #4
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    yeah a friend was telling me about joe defranco but i was more really trying to get the luke lowery or kelly baggett programs but thanks joe defrenco he has a good website i forgot his name intill you wrote it though.
    Last edited by droman; 09-05-2006 at 06:13 PM.

  6. #5
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    I know somebody has had to try one of these programs or any programs like it. Because i am real interested in increasing athletic ability. Im 5'10 180 and am a pretty decent athlete but i hate watching people who don't do anything and can dunk a basketball or are faster than me. Or are stronger than me just because of the genitics and I know there is a way of increasing these. I have increased mines pretty good on a program but i haven't really ever finished the program because of practices for my teams and I know without rest the program i am doing won't work.

  7. #6
    Senior Member Jinkies's Avatar
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    Bleachers and boxes

  8. #7
    Iron4Life
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinkies
    Bleachers and boxes
    :withstupi
    But don't forget your squat, lunges and calf raises..

    and did you know that Olympic lifters have some of the biggest vertical leaps in the world??
    This was proven back in the 60's..
    It's mentioned in this WBB Thread... (search on Mexico - research was done there)
    http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...threadid=25569
    and here are some quotes from various Internet sites:

    "Pound for pound, Olympic weightlifters have a greater level of speed-strength than any other class of athletes in all of sport. This fact was made very clear during a massive scientific expedition carried out on the athletes at the Mexico City Olympics in 1964. Sports scientists found that Olympic lifters were able to both vertical jump higher than any class of athletes (including the high jumpers), and run a 25 yard dash faster than any class of athletes (including the sprinters). Frederick C. Hatfield, Ph.D., F.I.S.S.A"

    "It has also been well documented by people the amazing vertical jumping ability these Olympic lifters have. This is really amazing once you think that these guys don?t jump but yet can out-jump the pro basketball players in the NBA. In the Mexico City Olympic Games Dr. Yessis did a field test with the Olympic lifters competing with the Olympic sprinters and jumpers. The had two tests, the 25m sprint and the vertical jump. It was documented that the Olympic lifters out-sprinted the Olympic sprinters in the 25m and out-jumped the Olympic jumpers in the vertical jump! This is quite a feat for men weighing 250-300lbs."

  9. #8
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bearwolf
    :withstupi
    But don't forget your squat, lunges and calf raises..

    and did you know that Olympic lifters have some of the biggest vertical leaps in the world??
    This was proven back in the 60's..
    It's mentioned in this WBB Thread... (search on Mexico - research was done there)
    http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...threadid=25569
    bearwolf,
    I really believe this "study" to be an urban legend... I have asked at many forums and listserves for anyone to provide more solid details of the study, but no one, not a single person, could come up with specifics. No researchers names, no athlete names, nada... If such a huge study had actually taken place, you would expect to at least be able to find it.

    edit: I just noticed that you quoted someone as saying that Dr. Yessis had conducted the study. I don't think that's true. I'll try to shoot an e-mail in his direction and maybe he'll answer - he certainly didn't when I posed the question about the study at the supertraining listserve.
    Last edited by Sensei; 09-06-2006 at 05:48 AM.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  10. #9
    Iron4Life
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei
    bearwolf,
    I really believe this "study" to be an urban legend... I have asked at many forums and listserves for anyone to provide more solid details of the study, but no one, not a single person, could come up with specifics. No researchers names, no athlete names, nada... If such a huge study had actually taken place, you would expect to at least be able to find it.

    edit: I just noticed that you quoted someone as saying that Dr. Yessis had conducted the study. I don't think that's true. I'll try to shoot an e-mail in his direction and maybe he'll answer - he certainly didn't when I posed the question about the study at the supertraining listserve.
    Well there I go again... believing everything I read on the Internet... lol
    Dang, I hate when that happens..
    but I still believe that Oly lifting helps vertical jumping.. I mean besides the SHWs.. have you ever seen how excited the lifters get.. and then most of them jump so friggin' high in the air on PRs and WRs.. or do back flips??

    Let me know what you find out..
    I'll go back to reading books then.. wait.. some of those aren't 100% accurate either.. dang, I wish everyone told the truth all the time..

  11. #10
    Proud Father Maki Riddington's Avatar
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    Kelly has based his program on sound scientific principles. His program works. You don't need to try it to know it works. Buy his book, it's gold and the bonuses are really great as well.

    I'm going to look into buying Joe Defranco's book as well, just as a reference as he churns out some great athletes.
    Maki Fit Blog

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    "Test all things; hold fast what is good.": 1 Thessalonians 5:21

    "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
    So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
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  12. #11
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bearwolf
    Let me know what you find out..
    I'll go back to reading books then.. wait.. some of those aren't 100% accurate either.. dang, I wish everyone told the truth all the time..
    I'm pretty sure it's mentioned in one of Dr. Fred Hatfield's books too. I mentioned it to him on his forum once and never got a response.

    I'll see what I can find out.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  13. #12
    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei
    bearwolf,
    I really believe this "study" to be an urban legend... I have asked at many forums and listserves for anyone to provide more solid details of the study, but no one, not a single person, could come up with specifics. No researchers names, no athlete names, nada... If such a huge study had actually taken place, you would expect to at least be able to find it.

    edit: I just noticed that you quoted someone as saying that Dr. Yessis had conducted the study. I don't think that's true. I'll try to shoot an e-mail in his direction and maybe he'll answer - he certainly didn't when I posed the question about the study at the supertraining listserve.
    I don't doubt that many of the weightlifters in 1960 were more explosive than the sprinters or jumpers.

    The sprinters, of course, are much faster over the full 100m and more because explosion out of the start is not the only factor. And a good vertical jump does not necessarily translate into a good high jump, especially for a shorter person.

    However, modern athletes, in particular track and field athletes, know and train with the olympic lifts, pylometrics, and everything else and I imagine that they can produce nearly as much power per weight as a weightlifter. That, plus their technique, different body shape, optimized training for moving 200lbs versus 600lbs, etc. will mean that the modern athlete will perform optimally in their event.

    The journal / I live here.

    If I were to start from scratch as a young 13 year old again, I would do every press, squat, and perhaps deadlifts, for my entire career with chains. -- Dan John

  14. #13
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    yeah this is some great stuff and i have heard most of this before. Right now im trying to get as strong as possible. during the winter then in the spring i'll start the plyometris and sprints. I think you I have to get stronger but in some cases i think some people neeed to get quicker since power is strength and speed
    Last edited by droman; 09-08-2006 at 08:28 PM.

  15. #14
    Senior Member deeder's Avatar
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    I know that even just squatting has increased my vertical significantly. I'm 5'9" and I can touch the rim on a basketball net.. Before I started squatting I could only slap the net. Can't dunk yet though
    Last edited by deeder; 09-09-2006 at 08:19 AM.
    Full Powerlifting
    Squat - 595lbs -- 270kg -- Dec. 31, '09 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Bench - 374lbs -- 170kg -- Dec 20, '08 (@100kg class)
    Dead - 589lbs -- 267.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Total: 1537lbs -- 697.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)
    Bench Only -- 358lbs -- 162.5kg -- Nov. 25, '07 (Provincial Record @ 90kg class)
    Bench Only -- 376lbs -- 171kg -- Jan. 26, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)

  16. #15
    Ridiculous. JoeGrinD's Avatar
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    Air Alert III

    I have the air alert 3 program and I must say it did increase my vert and jump reaction time while I was on it. However I found it hard on my knees and had to stop at about week 9.

    Damn my weak knees.
    age: 27 | height: 5'11" | weight: 172lbs | bf: 11%
    ------------------
    deadlift: 365 x 1 | bench: 225 x 5 | squat: 225 x 5

  17. #16
    Senior Member 235orbust's Avatar
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    Lunges, and squating where you explode as hard as you can when you go up will help you more than any program out there.

    explosive leg workouts=explosive vertical
    CONSISTANT EFFORT is more important than any formula for success

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