Just something floating around my mind and wanted yalls opinions.
Lets say a guy weighs 270 squats 500, he drops to 240 and squats 505.
People will be like he gained strength in a cut or that he had maintained, this is wrong. If you squat the same ammount you did precut you lost strength.
If I weight 270 and drop 30 pounds while maintaining my strength my squat should increase by 30 pounds. Just a thought and wasn't sure if it had ever been adressed; i'm about to actually start a cut ( been pokin at the idea for months) and wanted to get a better understanding because I'm hoping to be squatting around 650 at 240 and im at 620 at 270.
If I maintain my strength will increase even though im not any stronger.
Why should a 1 lb. loss in bodyweight automatically lead to a gain in 1 lb. on the squat?
I don't know either, though some people have this conception. I don't think there's a surefire formula to this.Originally Posted by SpecialK
As far as having a gut helping your squat, I had a 50 year old ex-powerlifter tell me the same thing. He really knew his stuff so I'm inclined to believe him.
If he's squatting 500 at 270 then drops to 240 and is squatting 505, he's actually squatting a lot more. Squatting 500 @ 270 is 1.85x your bodyweight. Squatting 505 @ 240 is 2.1x your bodyweight. If you squat the same as you did before you lost weight, you didn't lose strength.Originally Posted by Jinkies
And losing weight doesn't add poundages to your lifts magically.
I think what he means is that when you're squatting you're also squatting your body weight on top of whatever is loaded on the bar, so technically he's correct.
Let me rephrase it
Guy weights 270 and squats 600 thats- 870 total pounds
Guy drops weight and weights 240 and squats 605- 845
Techniqually hes stronger but hes still squatting less then before if you add in the body weight. If you lose a pound you should be able to squat a pound more assuming ur strength maintains.
I have read on here and other sites that having more weight overall, particularly in the waist, gives you a biomechanical advantage in the squat.Originally Posted by Jinkies
You're not squatting your whole bodyweight when you squat, so it's not realistic to make a pound for pound comparison.
quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur
Good point. And not only that, the weight is also distributed differently. In the first case that's 30 pounds on your body. In the second that's 30 pounds above you.Originally Posted by Jorge Sanchez
thats what i think too. Wouldn't it also depend on where you lost the weight from? And whether you actually lost 30lbs or pure fat or a combo of muscle/fat or just muscle? Also how bout if you gained some muscle and lost fat or gained fat and lost muscle? :POriginally Posted by Jorge Sanchez
I don't know, wouldn't weighing more give you more leverage or something?
5'10 186 lbs 17 years of age
"Success is a journey, not a destination."
But...it makes no sense whatsoever.
"The only easy day was yesterday."
I guess you have to use your upper pper body weight, or basically any part driven upwards by your legs, but this would be complicated to say the least.
British by birth, English by the grace of God.
That's not a picture of Scarlett Johansson.
I wouldn't worry about it.
gym lifts: squat: 341lbs, deadlift: 374lbs, bench: 275lbs
My journal: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=85034
"F—k you and the Prowler you rode in on"
A beginning lifter can do the same thing, this isn't anything new.
You don't have to lose strength during a cut.
I wish it were that easy. I'd lose 180lbs and then squat 585!!
Facebook - BW166 SQ585 BP405 DL660 CL310
I think that arguing overall strength loss/gain with a squat example is extremely misleading.
Take bench: on a cut how will your bench #s react? For most people they go down some, not up by the amount of fat lost in arms.
Homer Simpson - "The code of the schoolyard, Marge! The rules that teach a boy to be a man. Let's see. Don't tattle. Always make fun of those different from you. Never say anything, unless you're sure everyone feels exactly the same way you do."
www.dictionary.com (for all your spell-checking needs)
My picture thread- http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=78235
My journal- http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=77712
Viking Warlord- "You can't motorboat a personality".
Built- "See, truly artful copy-paste isn't random. You need to know WHAT to copy before you go pasting..."
This example obviously works best with chinup, but you are still moving the majority of you bodyweight with a squat. Everything above the knees.
Right but the length of your thigh bones, your torso, and other body parts I'm not thinking of will affect the perceived difficulty of the lift for a given amount of weight.Originally Posted by DokterVet
reading this thread from start to finish just made me lose 20 pounds on my squat.
This is not correct. When you lose weight, you lose leverage - if you are able to maintain or even gain on your squat despite losing 30lbs, then you have gotten a lot stronger.Originally Posted by Jinkies
A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
I'm with Sensei. I thought generally, the more you weigh the more you can lift. The more mass you have on your body, the more leverage you have, which is why some powerlifters are ginormous and don't care whether they are fat or not, they just wanna pack as much on as possible. I remember a post a while back with an article a powerlifter wrote about gaining weight. Some of them go to extremes to pack on as much mass as possible.
Seriously though, I know there are exceptions, but generally, a 250 lb chubby dude should be able to lift more than a 100 lb twig. If you lost 30 lbs, and your squat went up 5, you've actually gained strength. I'd be happy just to maintain all my lifts while on a cut.
Last edited by Invain; 09-01-2006 at 12:02 PM.
Best lifts: 615/475/660, Raw w/ Wraps
Perhaps a ratio of some form could be better applied to a body weight excercise such as dips or pullups.. i'd be interested to see what the change is in comparsion to weight/strength. For example, a person at the end of a bulk can do 15 pullups, after the end of a cut, what would the results be if he/she lost 30lb's body weight (minimal muscle lose)?
I see what yall mean, size is leverage.
I just was hopin yall could understand where I was comming from and clear it up because it is a tricky topic. Im going from 270 to 242 and I want to gain some strength while doing it. Tryin to understand the idea behind it better though