The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Wannabebig Member
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    Squat / Bench / Dead ratio?

    I hear people talking frequently about "bad" ratios for squat/bench/dead, but I've never read a formula. I'm sure the right ratio varies person by person, but is there a guideline out there?

    For instance, for 1RM I stand about 275/295/285. I've always been most eager to develop my bench press for some reason, its just a personal goal ever since I hit 225. Despite me keeping a tight schedule on my lifts, I think my added enthusiasm on the bench has set it apart from the rest. Has anyone else had similar experiences to this?

    If weight matters for the ratio I'm around 155.

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  3. #2
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    It differs for everyone. Most of the bench specialists have a sick bench, and dont' really care to discuss their squat and deadlift numbers. The most common top powerlifters have a big squat, followed by a deadlift which is less than their squat, followed by a bench lower than their deadlift. A plain example would be: 1000/600/800--> that's a normal ratio for a world class powerlifter. If you have say a 700 bench and a 600 deadlift, then you're most probably destined to be a bench specialist.

  4. #3
    Senior Member Vapour Trails's Avatar
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    I've never heard of someone that can bench more than they can DL. I can bench ~200lbs and DL 295x5 for my final top set. Clearly, your upper body strength far exceeds your lower strength.
    Last edited by Vapour Trails; 09-22-2006 at 09:12 AM.
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  5. #4
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    I can bench more than I can squat and my DL just passed my bench a short time ago. Mine is all due to really crappy training though.

    Now it is getting fixed.

  6. #5
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    I am tall and skinny so i suck on all lifts lol
    i dont squat very often at all. 6foot and 168, bench has been stuck for a year.


    280/275/400

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vapour Trails
    I've never heard of someone that can bench more than they can DL. I can bench ~200lbs and DL 295x5 for my final top set. Clearly, your upper body strength far exceeds your lower strength.

    Well, as my bench has prospered, the last thing I would think about is focusing more on the other things. My routine is:

    Monday chest/tri
    Tuesday back/bi (no deads though)
    Wesnesday shoulders/abs
    Thursday legs (not squat though)
    Saturday deads and squats (I take a long time setting up for these exercises, and want to have day to devote entirely to them)


    Like I said, with bench doing well, its sort of the more exciting of the days to look forward to each week. Maybe this excitement is what keeps that on top and the others struggling to catch up. I wouldn't say if you looked at me that I am all that unproportioned. Here is a thread with month ago pics.


    http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=84622


    PS: I really hate squats.

  8. #7
    Breaker of Skulls Guido's Avatar
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    The 1000/600/800 ratio applies to PL'ers who use equipment, but it's not as applicable to raw ratios. Raw, most people will have a higher deadlift than squat, and a higher squat than bench. I know a lot of raw guys shoot for a ratio of about 400/300/500 on squat/bench/dead. That's almost dead-on what I'm at, except my bench has about 15-20 lbs to go.
    5'9" 195 lbs
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  9. #8
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    A very general, useful guide for an unequipped lifter:

    Squat 2 x bw
    bench 1.5 x bw
    dead 2.5 x bw

    That works out to a 4:3:5 ratio Once you reach elite levels or throw equipement into the mix, it changes/
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
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  10. #9
    Senior Member Anthony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Stagg
    That works out to a 4:3:5 ratio
    :withstupi

    I agree only because that's pretty close to my ratio.
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  11. #10
    Watchya talkn bout willis
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    what about if you compete in a certain PL class, what should your ratios be around to compete?

    ** I mean % of body weight
    is it the 1.5/2/2.5?
    Last edited by North; 09-23-2006 at 09:40 PM.
    Weight:207
    375/300/365 Goal by summer:415/315/415

  12. #11
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    A very, very informal study on the internet showed that most lighter lifters have a higher deadlift to squat, whereas heavier lifters have a higher squat. I think the turning point is around 231. Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone, and gear changes things as well.

    As for a ratio of 275/295/285, well, maybe you should squat and deadlift a little more often. I agree with Guido, I think a ratio of about 4:3:5 is pretty standard for someone under 220, raw.

    Thanks.

  13. #12
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    yep with raw training its 3,4,5 bench squat dead, which is like exactly what i have cept higher squat
    2000 or bust

  14. #13
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    In my opinion, the squat should be higher than the deadlift, and the deadlift should be higher than the bench, something like 1000, 600, 800, but a lot of people don't do this.

  15. #14
    Senior Member Anthony's Avatar
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    The only way the squat is higher than the deadlift is if you use equipment and/or don't go atf.
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  16. #15
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony
    The only way the squat is higher than the deadlift is if you use equipment and/or don't go atf.
    Or you have short arms and a long torso.

    Most PLers don't go ATF.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
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  17. #16
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    What does ATF stand for?

  18. #17
    Senior Member Anthony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei
    Or you have short arms and a long torso.

    Most PLers don't go ATF.
    You could argue that a long torso would also change leverage on the squat.

    Either way, I think it's safe to say that 99.99999999999% of lifters will always have a higher deadlift than squat unless they use equipment. I should have said "below parallel" on squat instead of "ass to the floor."
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  19. #18
    ANVIL POWER Detard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westsidemonster
    What does ATF stand for?
    ATF=ass to floor
    ATG=ass to grass
    w:225lbs. h:5'10.
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  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by detard
    ATF=ass to floor
    ATG=ass to grass
    Thank you Detard, who would wanna do that though?? Ass to the floor??...how?...lol!

  21. #20
    Senior Member Anthony's Avatar
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    It just means using a full range of motion. It's actually better for your knees.
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  22. #21
    Banned phreak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony
    You could argue that a long torso would also change leverage on the squat.
    Indeed it does. I myself suffer from the Godzilla syndrome: short legs, short arms, long torso. Squatting was easy for me, because my ROM wasn't all that big and my torso would stay more upright because it is quite long. The downside: when DLing with proper technique (straight back) my back is almost exactly horizontal...

    my ratio would have been about 3/2/2 if I had been able to train everything seriously. (at 5'10.5", 275 Lbs)
    Last edited by phreak; 09-26-2006 at 05:16 AM.

  23. #22
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    Depends on genetics, my buddy is a awesome bencher, he benches me out like crazy without effort, he just has great genetics for it. However I'll out do him on squats any day, any time its not tha the doesn't work on them, its just that squats are more my thing, and bench his. Really depends i wouldn't put a ideal number to it though. MY current ratio lifts are
    315/185/315
    Squat, Bench, DL.
    "It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press.
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  24. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony
    It just means using a full range of motion. It's actually better for your knees.
    Then it should be called full range of motion, not ATF...Anyways, in a powerlifting competition, powerlifters are supposed to go below parallel level...That's pretty low!!!

  25. #24
    eater of food dw06wu's Avatar
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    those are accurate pl ratios for a parallel squat. atf squat however dramatically reduces the squat number like anthony said, regardless of body type, deadlift will always be higher than a full range squat.
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