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Thread: 'Clean Bulk' vs 'Dirty Bulk'

  1. #1
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    'Clean Bulk' vs 'Dirty Bulk'

    Im currently 'bulking' (lolololololll im still skinny). And I am having a hard time eating dirty foods as to think that I am going to gain more fat from it.
    Is there any concern at all for this or should I just eat what I can and go for it. I know to eat about ~400-500 calories over my maintenance for a relatively low fat bulk.

    Whats everyone figure?
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    Eat as healthy and clean as possible. If you don't cheat anymore than you would on a cut, you'll be happy.

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    Senior Member charles_316's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSpikeyThing
    Eat as healthy and clean as possible. If you don't cheat anymore than you would on a cut, you'll be happy.
    ive been trying to bulk and been eating everything and even going out to eat a lot....

    is a "dirty" bulk a really bad way to increase the calories? or is it ok if you don't mind to train hard and work off the extra fat gained from the dirty bulk?
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    back at it Beast's Avatar
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    It's a LOT better to eat clean on a bulk. You might say that you don't mind working off all of that fat, but trust me, the less fat you have, the happier you'll be when it's time to cut down.

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    Senior Member charles_316's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beast
    It's a LOT better to eat clean on a bulk. You might say that you don't mind working off all of that fat, but trust me, the less fat you have, the happier you'll be when it's time to cut down.
    true
    Age: 25
    Height: 5'7"
    Weight: 175lbs
    Body Fat around 12%
    Biceps: 14.5"
    Chest: 38"

    Bench Press: 225 x 10 reps and 275 pounds x 1 rep
    Deadlift: 405 pounds x 1 rep
    Squat: 335 pounds x 3 reps

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beast
    It's a LOT better to eat clean on a bulk. You might say that you don't mind working off all of that fat, but trust me, the less fat you have, the happier you'll be when it's time to cut down.
    See I figured as much, I just wanted an opinion from a few people that have dont successful bulks/cuts and whatever else.
    Sigh, its time to go back to the drawing board
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    Senior Member Sug's Avatar
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    Dirty Bulk= Eat 1000-2000 Calories over maintance, Clean bulk is like a couple hundred over your maintance, then when you start stalling in the weight gain department, add 100-200 more till you do. Thats the clean kinda bulk Im doing right now and its working pretty good. Keeping the gut in check.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sug
    Dirty Bulk= Eat 1000-2000 Calories over maintance, Clean bulk is like a couple hundred over your maintance, then when you start stalling in the weight gain department, add 100-200 more till you do. Thats the clean kinda bulk Im doing right now and its working pretty good. Keeping the gut in check.
    I know how to bulk...I was wondering if on a macro nutrient level if it was goign to affect me differentally.
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    DIrty doesn't necessarily mean the foods you eat - you could still eat pizza, ice cream etc on a clean bulk IMO... so long as the total calories don't go way too high.

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    Eat clean!!!! Keep the junk food to a minimum!!!

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    Is it just me or do some people think a dirty bulk is a major exess of calories, and some think its eating donuts and crappy quality foods.

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    天龙 McIrish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turnip
    Is it just me or do some people think a dirty bulk is a major exess of calories, and some think its eating donuts and crappy quality foods.
    I always figured "dirty bulk" referred to the quality of the garbage you're ingesting, as the body has different physiological responses to different things... ie., I'm reminded of the study I read on here a while back where monkeys were fed a set amount of calories and split into two groups, one of which received a substantially higher amount of trans fats, etc. The trans-fat group gained a statistically significant amount of fat.

    Therefore, doesn't make much sense to me to eat complete garbage while bulking (and by "complete garbage" I mean fast food, pizza, donuts, etc., which are more likely to have trans fats, etc.) and put on more fat as a result. Anyone disagree with that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by McIrish
    I'm reminded of the study I read on here a while back where monkeys were fed a set amount of calories and split into two groups, one of which received a substantially higher amount of trans fats, etc. The trans-fat group gained a statistically significant amount of fat.
    I dont disagree.. i'm not decided yet. But I'm VERY VERY interested in seeing that study.

    From everything I have seen it suggests that a calorie is a calorie - the source doesn't matter and in terms of gaining or losing WEIGHT, only the total number of calories matters. Of course for muscle gain you would want more protein etc but again protein from a whey shake carries the same number of calories as protein from a processed burger. i.e. my maintenance is 4000kcal so technically I could lose weight on 1lb of sugar a day (only 2000kcal)...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidelmo
    I dont disagree.. i'm not decided yet. But I'm VERY VERY interested in seeing that study.
    http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...nkey+trans+fat

    Here's a quote from said thread for those too lazy to click, hehe

    Quote Originally Posted by old thread
    Globe and Mail (Major Canadian Newspaper) June 14, 2006

    Of monkeys and midriff bulge

    Monkeys fed a diet high in trans fats gained much more weight that those fed the same number of calories but healthier types of fat, a new study has found.

    What's more, the extra pounds were deposited around the belly in "dramatic levels," according to researchers.

    "Diets rich in trans fat cause a redistribution of fat tissue into the abdomen and led to higher body weight even when total dietary calories are controlled," said Lawrence Rudel, head of the lipid sciences research program at Wake Forest University in Winston-Salem, N.C.

    "What it says is that trans fat is worse than anticipated," he said.

    The research was presented this week at the scientific sessions of the American Diabetes Association conference in Washington.

    Canadians are the world's biggest consumers of trans-fatty acids, ingesting about 10 grams a day on average.

    For the study, researchers fed two groups of male monkeys a Western-style human diet, with carefully controlled caloric intake, and 35 per cent of calories from fat.

    The only difference between the two groups is that one group of monkeys got 8 per cent of its calories from trans fats, while the other group got those calories from monounsaturated fats (these so-called good fats come from natural products such as olive oil).

    After six years, the monkeys who had trans fats in their diet had an average 7.2 per cent increase in body weight; the monkeys who did not consume trans fats saw their weight increase on average by only 1.8 per cent"
    I also remember a quote perhaps apocryphally attributed to Lyle McDonald saying that he could "get ripped on table sugar." I'm not really sold... I thought simple sugar triggers a cortisol response which promotes fat storage? Quick, somebody light the Built-signal!
    25 years old, 5'10''

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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beast
    It's a LOT better to eat clean on a bulk. You might say that you don't mind working off all of that fat, but trust me, the less fat you have, the happier you'll be when it's time to cut down.

    Why anyone would "dirty bulk" is beyond me. If you cant eat clean AND get enough calories every day then you simply dont want it bad enough.
    Diet is key, the calorie is king

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    Quote Originally Posted by McIrish
    http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...nkey+trans+fat

    Here's a quote from said thread for those too lazy to click, hehe



    I also remember a quote perhaps apocryphally attributed to Lyle McDonald saying that he could "get ripped on table sugar." I'm not really sold... I thought simple sugar triggers a cortisol response which promotes fat storage? Quick, somebody light the Built-signal!
    Interesting read, although I am understandably still a little sceptical. The way I see it is that a calorie is a measure of energy - if you need 2000kcal a day then eating more makes you gain weight. If a gram of sugar has 4kcal and a gram of oats has 4kcal (hypothetically) I dont see how one makes you gain more than the other. Same for fats - 1g of trans fats has 9kcal and 1g of mono has 9kcal.. i dont see how one makes you gain more weight than the other. If it does.. where does the extra energy come from.

    Yes, eating titloads of sugar will raise your insulin and promote fat storage after you eat it, but in a long term scenario it should make no difference. If you eat under maintenance you will lose weight. Of course, it's not healthy to do that - you miss out on vitamins, minerals and will bugger up your insulin sensitivity etc but you would lose weight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidelmo
    I dont disagree.. i'm not decided yet. But I'm VERY VERY interested in seeing that study.
    http://www.bantransfats.com/

    It's a long page just search for monkey.

    I'm pretty convinced the laws of physics are unavoidable. My only explanation is that trans effect RMR in a negative way. Not totally shocking considering the number of health disturbances they cause.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smalls
    Why anyone would "dirty bulk" is beyond me. If you cant eat clean AND get enough calories every day then you simply dont want it bad enough.
    You use 6+ 1000kcal shakes each day, right? I guess your definition of "clean" is the content of the food? See, I'm not sure if I'd call a 1000kcal shake "clean" or not. Are you never tempted to use ice cream, hot dogs and burgers to reach your total calories? Not trying to challenge you.. just interested in your rationale behind your methods.

  20. #20
    Senior Member BFGUITAR's Avatar
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    I think dirty bulks imply the type of food eaten.
    Sure, eating bad food will get you the calories but there is something your missing when you do this. While you may have to eat more food in general on a clean bulk to get the saem calorie intake, the benefit is the vitamins and nutrients gained.

    Stick to healthy food and you cant go wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Holto
    http://www.bantransfats.com/

    It's a long page just search for monkey.

    I'm pretty convinced the laws of physics are unavoidable. My only explanation is that trans effect RMR in a negative way. Not totally shocking considering the number of health disturbances they cause.
    Interesting read, thanks. I dont know a lot obout hydrogenated fats to be honest - is it true that your body can't process them properly?

  22. #22
    Senior Member Jinkies's Avatar
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    Dirty bulk is more effective in the longrun assuming you know what your doing and have a set plan for dropping down. Cleanbulk you can put on mass and still look good without having to cut down as much but a dirty bulk won't look good for a longtime.

    Personally I wish I had clean bulked better, its alot of trial and error for anyone. I ate and go to the weight I wanted to weigh, then I find my matanience and stick to that and work till im leaner at that weight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidelmo
    Interesting read, thanks. I dont know a lot obout hydrogenated fats to be honest - is it true that your body can't process them properly?
    Chemisty is not my stong point, but as I understand, the extra hydrogen atoms eliminate potential bonding sites along the fatty acid chain and make it less usefull for biosynthesis. I'm really hazy on this but I believe they can pretty much only be used for energy and even then it's a bit more complicated. Perhaps they don't yield the ~9 cals of most fats. These early primate studies certainly raise some questions.
    Last edited by Holto; 09-30-2006 at 07:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smalls
    Why anyone would "dirty bulk" is beyond me. If you cant eat clean AND get enough calories every day then you simply dont want it bad enough.
    Its a case of get big quick, I'm doing it because I know damn well when I'm 250lbs+ I can diet down to whatever BF% I choose too a loose a minimal amount of bodyfat. That I'm European, you know us crazy Euro's and our food!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidelmo
    See, I'm not sure if I'd call a 1000kcal shake "clean" or not.
    What if its made of:

    Organic Soy Milk
    Organic Oats
    Organic Olive Oil
    New Zealand Whey

    Quote Originally Posted by Davidelmo
    just interested in your rationale behind your methods.
    I think it has to do something with chewing. LOL

    Our boy Smalls has been on really high cals for a long time.

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