The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #26
    Senior Member Anthony's Avatar
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    A faulty movement pattern is:

    - when you perform a movement your body was not designed to perform (leg extensions)
    - when you perform a movement incorrectly and therefore increase your risk of injury (knees cave inward during a squat)
    - when you perform a movement incorrectly and therfore limit your potential (early arm bend during a clean)

    Basically, it's when you teach your body to do something the wrong way.

    One very important thing to remember is that when you repeat faulty movement patterns on a regular basis, your body will use those patterns when reacting to situations outside of the gym.

    If you practise the deadlift incorrectly, what do you think happens when you try to pick up a box at home? You'll magically perform a perfect deadlift? Not likely.

    If you don't teach the muscles in your legs and posterior chain to work together, what do you think happens when a situation in life demands it (tackle, run, jump, whatever)? That you'll magically pull things together and save the day? Not likely.

    Whether you train "only for looks" or not, you still have to function as a human being outside of the gym. Teach your body how to move properly and you'll stay injury free for a longer period of time.
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  2. #27
    Proud Father Maki Riddington's Avatar
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    Your body can take quite a beating. It doesn't just automatically become disfunctional. It takes quite a bit of time for this to happen.

    Not that I don't agree with your points, I just think that this line of thinking can be a bit overboard sometimes.
    Maki Fit Blog

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    "Soli Deo Gloria"
    "Test all things; hold fast what is good.": 1 Thessalonians 5:21

    "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
    So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
    Romans 7:14-25

    "Judo is not about strength. Yet in the learning curve, all Judokas get strong. Only with time do you learn where to apply that strength."
    The Art of Judo

  3. #28
    Senior Member Anthony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maki Riddington
    Your body can take quite a beating. It doesn't just automatically become disfunctional. It takes quite a bit of time for this to happen.
    Depends on who you ask. Highly skilled athletes (and/or their coaches) would highly disagree. Hence the reason olympic lifters and gymnasts spend a tremendous amount of time practising movement. I think Siff talked about how easily movement patterns can become clouded with improper form as well.
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  4. #29
    Proud Father Maki Riddington's Avatar
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    I thought we're talking about bodybuilders?
    Maki Fit Blog

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    "Soli Deo Gloria"
    "Test all things; hold fast what is good.": 1 Thessalonians 5:21

    "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
    So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
    Romans 7:14-25

    "Judo is not about strength. Yet in the learning curve, all Judokas get strong. Only with time do you learn where to apply that strength."
    The Art of Judo

  5. #30
    Senior Member Anthony's Avatar
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    I was talking about everyone. I used gymnasts and olympic lifters as examples of how quickly movement patterns can be rewired.
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  6. #31
    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony
    You guys miss the point completely.

    Faulty movement patterns are bad. I don't care who you are or what your goals are.
    Faulty movement patterns are probably the least of the longevity and health concerns for pro (or even advanced amateur) bodybuilders or heavy strength athletes.

    Weighing 300lbs will really screw up one's movement patterns. Using powerlifting gear will REALLY REALLY REALLY screw up your movement patterns.

    To say nothing of eating 10k cals or using steroids.

    The journal / I live here.

    If I were to start from scratch as a young 13 year old again, I would do every press, squat, and perhaps deadlifts, for my entire career with chains. -- Dan John

  7. #32
    Senior Member Anthony's Avatar
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    LOL, touche.
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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vapour Trails
    What is so bad about leg press?
    Non free weight.

    Open chain.

    The Fitness Industry is a 1 billion dollar industry.
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  9. #34
    Proud Father Maki Riddington's Avatar
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    It's not a "bad" exercise. It's fine. Squats are just a better choice.
    Maki Fit Blog

    At Large: Optimize Your Body | Dynamic Conditioning |
    My articles on Wannabebig

    "Soli Deo Gloria"
    "Test all things; hold fast what is good.": 1 Thessalonians 5:21

    "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
    So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
    Romans 7:14-25

    "Judo is not about strength. Yet in the learning curve, all Judokas get strong. Only with time do you learn where to apply that strength."
    The Art of Judo

  10. #35
    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maki Riddington
    It's not a "bad" exercise. It's fine. Squats are just a better choice.
    Leg press is a bad exercise because it produces very high forces on the spine in a compromised position. Squats are much better in this respect.

    The journal / I live here.

    If I were to start from scratch as a young 13 year old again, I would do every press, squat, and perhaps deadlifts, for my entire career with chains. -- Dan John

  11. #36
    Son of Krypton Majestic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony
    Go perform some box jumps if you want to work your calves.
    .......and improve your dunk!
    "We could put his leg in a vice-grip, but you & I together couldn't twist his ankle enough to sprain it"
    - Jerry Glanville discussing Barry Sanders

  12. #37
    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony
    LOL, touche.
    Know what else also screws up movement patterns?

    Performing lifts in high rep, low weight schemes for anaerobic training purposes.

    These training protocols with olympic or other complex movements result in non-optimal form, to be charitable, at best.

    This may be an acceptable sacrifice for some.

    But then you must couch your complaints about not using machines because they develop faulty movement patterns in terms of "not worth the sacrifice" versus activities (anaerobic training) for which it is worth sacrificing movement patterns.

    Your turn, midget!

    The journal / I live here.

    If I were to start from scratch as a young 13 year old again, I would do every press, squat, and perhaps deadlifts, for my entire career with chains. -- Dan John

  13. #38
    Is cutting down to 9% Jordanbcool's Avatar
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    No offense to the discussion but I doubt the majority of bodybuilders/lifters pay any attention to this kind of stuff. If I'm getting stronger and injury free thats really all thats on my mind....Could I have back problems from leg press? Possibly. But I know I'll be in much better shape when I get older then most people. I'll trade a slightly bummed back for good overall health when Im older.

    And I resent the midget comment! We are people too!!
    Getting back in the groove
    "I'll tell you a secret. Something they don't teach you in your temple. The Gods envy us. They envy us because we're mortal, because any moment might be our last. Everything is more beautiful because we're doomed. You will never be lovelier than you are now. We will never be here again." - Achilles, (Troy 2004)
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  14. #39
    C.S.C.S. ddegroff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBC
    I'll trade a slightly bummed back for good overall health when Im older.
    Why not just drop the leg press and be in even better shape?
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  15. #40
    Is cutting down to 9% Jordanbcool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddegroff
    Why not just drop the leg press and be in even better shape?
    Cause I like it lol

    But you cant get around some sort of physical problem later in life.....for me it wouldnt matter much. Like I wouldnt regret doing leg press or any other excersize even if it caused some discomfort when Im older...I'll probably be sitting in a couch all day doing nothing anyways (when I get over 65) so I dont think I'd care either way.
    Last edited by Jordanbcool; 11-09-2006 at 09:45 PM.
    Getting back in the groove
    "I'll tell you a secret. Something they don't teach you in your temple. The Gods envy us. They envy us because we're mortal, because any moment might be our last. Everything is more beautiful because we're doomed. You will never be lovelier than you are now. We will never be here again." - Achilles, (Troy 2004)
    Stats
    ATF squat- 275 RAW
    Deadlift- 415
    Bench- Two 100lbs DB's four times
    190lbs 15% BF (Estimate)

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordanbcool
    Cause I like it lol

    But you cant get around some sort of physical problem later in life.
    because...

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  17. #42
    Is cutting down to 9% Jordanbcool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holto
    because...
    Your body isnt going to stay 21 forever, thats because.

    BTW. Also most people dont even think that far ahead let alone worry about their health.
    Last edited by Jordanbcool; 11-10-2006 at 05:21 AM.
    Getting back in the groove
    "I'll tell you a secret. Something they don't teach you in your temple. The Gods envy us. They envy us because we're mortal, because any moment might be our last. Everything is more beautiful because we're doomed. You will never be lovelier than you are now. We will never be here again." - Achilles, (Troy 2004)
    Stats
    ATF squat- 275 RAW
    Deadlift- 415
    Bench- Two 100lbs DB's four times
    190lbs 15% BF (Estimate)

  18. #43
    Senior Member Anthony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MixmasterNash
    Know what else also screws up movement patterns?

    Performing lifts in high rep, low weight schemes for anaerobic training purposes.
    If the reps are with good form, then I disagree.

    If the reps are with poor form, regardless of weight or reps, then it falls into categories I posted earlier.
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  19. #44
    Senior Member Vapour Trails's Avatar
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    Squats are obviously better than leg press, but not all people will get great quad development from them, so the leg press can help that situation. Plus, try getting a 40 yr old woman who wants to get into shape but hasn't done anything in the past 20 years under a bar, it isn't going to happen immediately or maybe never. Leg press is more accessible to those who are not at all athletic and lack the balance to perform a sqaut, while still being far superior to leg extensions.

    One to 2 sets of leg press following squats isn't going to do you any kind of harm. People really like to take things to extremes here - a routine of 20 sets includes a couple sets of isolation or machines and all hell breaks loose. I think everyone is aware that isolation and machines are not great choices, but that doesn't mean they never have their place in a routine. Lyle cleary advocates the big traditional movements as the core of a routine. But if you think entirely in black/white on such issues, you are doing yourself a disservice.

    I think Maki's post regarding what Christian wrote has some good points about compounds focusing on the stronger muscles involved. I've improved my ability to push/pull greatly without seeing much increase in the size or strength of my arms, even though they are involved.
    Last edited by Vapour Trails; 11-10-2006 at 03:46 PM.
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  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vapour Trails
    Squats are obviously not as good as leg press.
    Nothing like a good laugh to start the day.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vapour Trails
    People really like to take things to extremes here - a routine of 20 sets includes a couple sets of isolation or machines and all hell breaks loose.
    I think all hell broke loose because you insulted the readership here in your typical pencilneck arrogant fashion. (see below)


    Quote Originally Posted by Vapour Trails
    So many people post routine threads and most of them are terrible.
    Guys:

    You have to realize that Vapour Trails is special. He can go on a PMSF diet without losing any glycogen. Perhaps leg extensions and leg press will one day help him crack 200lbs.
    Last edited by Holto; 11-10-2006 at 11:34 AM.

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  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordanbcool
    Your body isnt going to stay 21 forever, thats because.

    BTW. Also most people dont even think that far ahead let alone worry about their health.
    Your answer makes no sense.

    One of the benefits of lifting is longevity. Yeah you may be sitting on the couch alot at 65 but do you want to be able to lift your groceries out of the trunk?

    Do you think Built is gonna fall apart in 20 years when she is approaching 65?

    I think this attitude that health problems are innevitable is one reason people don't bother to imporve thier health.
    Last edited by Holto; 11-10-2006 at 11:35 AM.

    The Fitness Industry is a 1 billion dollar industry.
    --Dairy Queens Blizzard pulls in 3/4 of a billion.
    --------------We are the elite.------------

  22. #47
    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    T-Nation: Cool! Good to hear! Let's get back to iron. What do you think of the leg press machine for athletes?

    Joe DeFranco: The leg press machine and the word "athlete" shouldn’t even be mentioned in the same sentence! The leg press is a waste of time for athletes. With all of the squat and deadlift variations out there, I can’t see why any athlete would even look at a leg press. Yet, it’s still one of the most popular pieces of equipment in the gym, but when I see an athlete on the leg press machine, I automatically think he's a lazy athlete.

    And don’t tell me you’re doing leg presses instead of squats or deads because you have a bad back either. The leg press is much more damaging to the low-back compared to squats or deadlifts. Not to mention the fact that leg press strength has no carryover to the athletic field! Try putting the leg press machine on your back and see how many times you can squat it. Then it may be useful for athletes!

    While we’re on the subject, let’s burn the leg extension, hack squat, inner/outer thigh machine, pec deck, and that stupid pad that people wrap around the bar when they squat!

    The journal / I live here.

    If I were to start from scratch as a young 13 year old again, I would do every press, squat, and perhaps deadlifts, for my entire career with chains. -- Dan John

  23. #48
    Is cutting down to 9% Jordanbcool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holto
    Your answer makes no sense.

    One of the benefits of lifting is longevity. Yeah you may be sitting on the couch alot at 65 but do you want to be able to lift your groceries out of the trunk?

    Do you think Built is gonna fall apart in 20 years when she is approaching 65?

    I think this attitude that health problems are innevitable is one reason people don't bother to imporve thier health.
    Theres a huge difference between 65 and 75+.

    Plus it would all vary on the individual. I bodybuild for health, yea its a reason. But right now all I really care about is to get bigger. If leg press will help me do that then I'll use it. Same for squats and deads. When it becomes a problem then I'll stop doing them.

    My thing is, that I'm not going to be overly active past a certain age. There are some people who look great at 60 maybe even up to 70. Me, I wont really worry about myself after 70 or so. I'll reason that I've lived a good life and that I simply dont really care anymore. Am I going to go out of my way to harm myself? Will I just do leg press alone? No.......I dont think leg press is going to hurt me THAT much. I'm not arguing for bad form or something I (personally) think its alot of smoke without the fire. You know?
    Getting back in the groove
    "I'll tell you a secret. Something they don't teach you in your temple. The Gods envy us. They envy us because we're mortal, because any moment might be our last. Everything is more beautiful because we're doomed. You will never be lovelier than you are now. We will never be here again." - Achilles, (Troy 2004)
    Stats
    ATF squat- 275 RAW
    Deadlift- 415
    Bench- Two 100lbs DB's four times
    190lbs 15% BF (Estimate)

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordanbcool
    Theres a huge difference between 65 and 75+.

    Plus it would all vary on the individual. I bodybuild for health, yea its a reason. But right now all I really care about is to get bigger. If leg press will help me do that then I'll use it. Same for squats and deads. When it becomes a problem then I'll stop doing them.

    My thing is, that I'm not going to be overly active past a certain age. There are some people who look great at 60 maybe even up to 70. Me, I wont really worry about myself after 70 or so. I'll reason that I've lived a good life and that I simply dont really care anymore. Am I going to go out of my way to harm myself? Will I just do leg press alone? No.......I dont think leg press is going to hurt me THAT much. I'm not arguing for bad form or something I (personally) think its alot of smoke without the fire. You know?
    The statement I objected to is you is equating aging with your body breaking down.

    My mom at 59, is currently leaner and stronger than when she was 18. She has been following my training and nutrition programs and has totally tranformed her body.

    She has accomplished all of this while fighting, Narcilepsy, Fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome.
    Last edited by Holto; 11-10-2006 at 03:34 PM.

    The Fitness Industry is a 1 billion dollar industry.
    --Dairy Queens Blizzard pulls in 3/4 of a billion.
    --------------We are the elite.------------

  25. #50
    Senior Member Vapour Trails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vapour Trails
    Squats are obviously not as good as leg press,
    This is a typo on my part.

    I mean to say squats are obviously better than leg press. If you read the entire thread I think that is evident.

    Holto what is your problem anyway? What exactly did I say to you? You are the one throwing insults around. Instead of realizing I probably made a typo you go on a tirade against my character and bring up completely unrelated topics? What does PSMF have to do with this conversation? Clearly you just want to stir the pot.
    Last edited by Vapour Trails; 11-10-2006 at 03:53 PM.
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