The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
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    Do you believe in genetic limitations?

    So here is my take on the whole genetics issue:

    Everyone has a predefined genetic potential that they can reach in bodybuilding, sports, musical instrument playing, etc. How close you come to your own genetic potential depends on how hard you work at it.

    However, there seems to be some people on here who think the complete opposite of what I posted - that everyone is created equally, and hard work conquers all. If you aren't as big or as strong as person X, then it's only because you don't know their routine, and/or you don't work as hard as they do. If you mimic their routine and don't get their results, you must not have been trying hard enough.

    What are your thoughts on this?

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  3. #2
    Senior Member deeder's Avatar
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    Genetics definately play a big role. Hard work only pays off to a certain extent.
    Full Powerlifting
    Squat - 595lbs -- 270kg -- Dec. 31, '09 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Bench - 374lbs -- 170kg -- Dec 20, '08 (@100kg class)
    Dead - 589lbs -- 267.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Total: 1537lbs -- 697.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)
    Bench Only -- 358lbs -- 162.5kg -- Nov. 25, '07 (Provincial Record @ 90kg class)
    Bench Only -- 376lbs -- 171kg -- Jan. 26, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)

  4. #3
    The Man of Steel -Superman-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialK
    So here is my take on the whole genetics issue:

    Everyone has a predefined genetic potential that they can reach in bodybuilding, sports, musical instrument playing, etc. How close you come to your own genetic potential depends on how hard you work at it.

    However, there seems to be some people on here who think the complete opposite of what I posted - that everyone is created equally, and hard work conquers all. If you aren't as big or as strong as person X, then it's only because you don't know their routine, and/or you don't work as hard as they do. If you mimic their routine and don't get their results, you must not have been trying hard enough.

    What are your thoughts on this?
    Of course people have genetic limitations - even with steroid use. Just look at Mr. Olympia. A lot of the people are taking similar steroids but only a few stand out from the rest like Ronnie Coleman. Hard work in the gym doesn't make you taller or faster. Speed is a great example. It isn't something you can improve greatly if you don't have it because it's something you are born with. Endurance is something you can improve though.

    From 155 lbs to 200 lbs (PICS/VIDS INCLUDED)

    Height: 6'0"; BW: 202lbs; Age: 24; BF: ~11%
    155lbs [07-01-06] 176lbs [09-14-06] 179lbs [09-21-06] 182lbs [10-02-06] 184lbs [10-18-06] 186lbs [10-23-06] 187lbs [11-08-06] 189lbs [11-19-06] 190lbs [11-21-06] 191lbs [12-21-06] 194lbs [12-31-06]

    Bench: 250lbs; Squat: 350lbs lbs; Deadlift: 430 lbs

    Military: 111lbsx8; Dips: BWx30; Pullups: BWx10; WChestP: 360lbsx7; 45LegP: 470lbsx20; C Raise: 360lbs; BB Curl: 105lbsx3; Lat Pull: 195lbsx5

  5. #4
    Senior Member Natetaco's Avatar
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    people are obviously created genetically stonger, taller, faster, etc. I think some people just dont have the genetic potential to get somewhere as other people, no matter how hard they try. For example, sprinting. A white man hasnt beat a black guy in who knows how long in the 100 meter dash, black people just are genetically better sprinters.
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  6. #5
    lifting heavy
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    Everyone is different. Some people who are strong out of the womb are born to be massive others are born to be skinny. All you can do is do the best you possibly can. Sure there are genetic limitations but I doubt any of us here are pushing them at the moment.

  7. #6
    Senior Member BFGUITAR's Avatar
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    Genetics plays a huge roll. My brother is bigger and fatter than me and he does 0 excersise. Hes also alot stronger than me (at least for the next year while I work out). It plays a huge roll.

    No matter what, a little five foot man isnt going to be a linebacker in the NFL any time soon.

  8. #7
    Iron man
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    I don't believe that there are genetic limitations. I do believe however, that some people have certain genetics that allow them to grow easier than other people. Example, my dad tells me that our family has naturally strong chest and legs. I've noticed that my squats and benchpress usually go up pretty fast, sometimes it slows down, but I usually gain in them faster than my lifting buddies. While one of my lifting buddies' arm strength seems to grow fast.
    Currently:
    age: 15
    height:5'8.5"
    weight: 143
    bench: 185
    squat: 225x15
    Goals by January '08:
    weight: 145-150
    bench: 210
    squat: 250x10

  9. #8
    Matt04
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    with the black vs white persons potential, i believe it has something to do with the ammount of fast or slow twitch muslce fibres that the black people have that give them an advantage.

    but to the original poster, no one is created equally (besides twins etc), genetics play a massive role in the shape of our muscles and at what rate they can grow with a caloric surplus and to what ratio those gains will be made in fat or muscle. there is no magic routine that will make you huge, you just need to experiment and just find out what works for you.

    there is genetic limitations, if someone does everything right in that they used a well strutured routine that did not have too much volume, and ate as they should. they will eventually get to a point where it will be near possible to not gain anymore or at a super slow rate. say if 2 people did this, 1 would probly be bigger than the other and this shows that each persons genetic potential is different.

    i wish i had an example to back this up but i dont, sorry

    thats just my .02c
    Last edited by Matt04; 11-13-2006 at 08:13 PM.

  10. #9
    Senior Member Natetaco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bodybuilderam
    I don't believe that there are genetic limitations. I do believe however, that some people have certain genetics that allow them to grow easier than other people. Example, my dad tells me that our family has naturally strong chest and legs. I've noticed that my squats and benchpress usually go up pretty fast, sometimes it slows down, but I usually gain in them faster than my lifting buddies. While one of my lifting buddies' arm strength seems to grow fast.
    their are genetic limitations to humans. I doubt that anyone will ever raw bench press 2000 pounds. And nobody will ever be able to run 40 mph...
    ________________________
    190ish lbs
    5'11
    Personal Accomplishments
    Bench:225x5, 255x1
    Squat:350x5
    Dead:370x5, 415x1

  11. #10
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    Genetics play a huge roll in alot of things but with weight training you would be suprised what hard work can do, especially with a FREE and clear mind. I know some people are born huge and strong, i have friends and there family members that are like that, my friend could bench 205 first time touching a weight, but he was heavy like myself at 240ish, and you have the skinny person who benches the bar his first time. This doesnt mean that skinny kid cant be as strong as the big guy, it takes hard work.

    Im a firm believer that determination is a scary thing, if you barely got 355 on the squat 1 week but are focused and load up 365 you WILL do it! ive been there!
    2000 or bust

  12. #11
    Senior Member deeder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natetaco
    their are genetic limitations to humans. I doubt that anyone will ever raw bench press 2000 pounds. And nobody will ever be able to run 40 mph...
    Actually... I decided it I wanted it really bad and just went for it... I benched 2221lbs raw. Then I was so excited that I ran down the high way going 100km/h!

    Sorry to burst your bubble.
    Full Powerlifting
    Squat - 595lbs -- 270kg -- Dec. 31, '09 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Bench - 374lbs -- 170kg -- Dec 20, '08 (@100kg class)
    Dead - 589lbs -- 267.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Total: 1537lbs -- 697.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)
    Bench Only -- 358lbs -- 162.5kg -- Nov. 25, '07 (Provincial Record @ 90kg class)
    Bench Only -- 376lbs -- 171kg -- Jan. 26, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)

  13. #12
    Information Sinkhole Absolute's Avatar
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    I feel that there are genetic limitations, but people too often use genetics as a scapegoat for their lack of hard work. Both play a large factor, but when someone says that they're fat because their family is fat, then they're making an excuse. With hard work, most people who are overweight can achieve their body/athletic goals, given that they are reasonable. Like Nate said, no one will bench 2k, and no one will run 40 mph.

    I have a friend who "eats a ton" but "can't put on mass." I consistently get his fries everyday at lunch. I eat more than him on a regular basis. He runs a lot. He's naturally a tall skinny guy, but if he were to drop the running, and start seriously working towards gaining some mass, would he do it? Most likely, because he's done it before. His genetics will limit him, but he has to find out where that limit IS. Until you push the envelope, you won't know where it is.

    Hard work is = Genetics. Both play a role, and neither is greater than the other.
    SAM and FRODO tie up GOLLUM.
    GOLLUM: No! Smeagol not into ropes, nassty kinky hobbitses.
    FRODO: We just want you to take us to Mordor, you sicko.
    GOLLUM: Mordor? Hobbitses having little Goth phase, maybe? Very angsssty, wanting to go to Mordor, yes yes. Can Smeagol offer black eyeliner to angsssty hobbitses?
    SAM: You stop talking to Mr.--hmm. (to FRODO) You know, you wouldn't look half bad in eyeliner.

  14. #13
    Eat Chicken Chris686's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialK
    However, there seems to be some people on here who think the complete opposite of what I posted - that everyone is created equally, and hard work conquers all.
    If there are people who think that, they need to realize we're in the 21st century now.
    It's a scientific fact. You can believe what you want, but a fact is a fact no matter how hard headed you are.


    Quote Originally Posted by bodybuilderam
    I don't believe that there are genetic limitations. I do believe however, that some people have certain genetics that allow them to grow easier than other people. Example, my dad tells me that our family has naturally strong chest and legs. I've noticed that my squats and benchpress usually go up pretty fast, sometimes it slows down, but I usually gain in them faster than my lifting buddies. While one of my lifting buddies' arm strength seems to grow fast.
    I won't pick on you because you're so young. Just do some research on the subject.
    Forever Goal: Strength

    Weightlifting sucks. I just like to lift heavy things.

  15. #14
    Hulk Smash! LouPac's Avatar
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    It's obvious that some people are born with genetics that make them excel in sports a lot quicker than others. The rest of us have to work a lot harder. You can't blame genetics for not making progress. If you're not making progress it's because you'r not working hard enough or you're not eating enough.

  16. #15
    Senior Member betastas's Avatar
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    Genetic limitations are definitely there. They're the whole basis of your body being what it is. However, too many people say "Well it's my genetics".

    You didn't reach your limitations THAT fast, get back under that bar.

  17. #16
    Eat Chicken Chris686's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absolute
    Both play a large factor, but when someone says that they're fat because their family is fat, then they're making an excuse.
    Ah, and for the record genetics don't usually play a large role in people being fat.
    If your mom and dad are fat, it's their diet. You're born into the same family, therefore you inherit their diet; you'll eat the same things they do. So while there is some merit to what they say in the sense they're fat because of their family, it's not something that's uncontrollable by any means.
    Forever Goal: Strength

    Weightlifting sucks. I just like to lift heavy things.

  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by LouPac
    It's obvious that some people are born with genetics that make them excel in sports a lot quicker than others. The rest of us have to work a lot harder. You can't blame genetics for not making progress. If you're not making progress it's because you'r not working hard enough or you're not eating enough.
    No, but I can blame genetics for the fact that when I work as hard as person X for some specific period of time, my squat only goes up by 20 lbs., while person X's goes up by 50 or more in the same timeframe.
    Last edited by SpecialK; 11-13-2006 at 08:52 PM.

  19. #18
    Hulk Smash! LouPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialK
    No, but I can blame genetics for the fact that when I work as hard as person X for some specific period of time, my squat only goes up by 20 lbs., while person X's goes up by 50 or more in the same timeframe.
    Did you read what I first said in my post?

  20. #19
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    [QUOTE=-Superman Speed is a great example. It isn't something you can improve greatly if you don't have it because it's something you are born with.
    [/QUOTE]

    I agree with the whole genetic potential, but speed is something you can greatly improve upon. I think most people with great training could hit a 4.6 40. However I dont think everyone could hit a 4.2 with great training.

  21. #20
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    I think genetics is a lot more complicated than either "good" or "bad". I think there is some selection bias that occurs with the pros. Those who have "good" genetics, or develop at a young age, are going to be more attracted to weight training. This would give them an edge over someone the same age, but who started later.

    I also think there are few people who ever reach their genetic potential. In fact I think it is impossible to know what your personal potential is. Even when you've been training since you were 13, you'll make gains for a LONG time. As long as you're making gains, you haven't reached your potential.

    For the most part, however, people use genetics as a big cop out.

  22. #21
    The Man of Steel -Superman-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gator
    I agree with the whole genetic potential, but speed is something you can greatly improve upon. I think most people with great training could hit a 4.6 40. However I dont think everyone could hit a 4.2 with great training.
    That's what I meant . I mean, only a few individuals could ever run a 4.2 or run a 100 m dash in under 11. It is just something that can only be improved to your "genetic potential".
    From 155 lbs to 200 lbs (PICS/VIDS INCLUDED)

    Height: 6'0"; BW: 202lbs; Age: 24; BF: ~11%
    155lbs [07-01-06] 176lbs [09-14-06] 179lbs [09-21-06] 182lbs [10-02-06] 184lbs [10-18-06] 186lbs [10-23-06] 187lbs [11-08-06] 189lbs [11-19-06] 190lbs [11-21-06] 191lbs [12-21-06] 194lbs [12-31-06]

    Bench: 250lbs; Squat: 350lbs lbs; Deadlift: 430 lbs

    Military: 111lbsx8; Dips: BWx30; Pullups: BWx10; WChestP: 360lbsx7; 45LegP: 470lbsx20; C Raise: 360lbs; BB Curl: 105lbsx3; Lat Pull: 195lbsx5

  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by LouPac
    Did you read what I first said in my post?
    OK, I guess I misred it the first time. Yea, anyone should be able to make SOME progress. I was just expressing my frustration at not being able to match others' rate of progress.

  24. #23
    Hulk Smash! LouPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialK
    OK, I guess I misred it the first time. Yea, anyone should be able to make SOME progress. I was just expressing my frustration at not being able to match others' rate of progress.
    That's the thing, you shouldn't be worried about that. There's always going to be someone stronger than you, the sooner you realize that the better off you'll be. All you have to worry about is being as strong as YOU can possibly be.

  25. #24
    Eat Chicken Chris686's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LouPac
    There's always going to be someone stronger than you
    Unless you're Andy Bolton.
    Forever Goal: Strength

    Weightlifting sucks. I just like to lift heavy things.

  26. #25
    Hulk Smash! LouPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris686
    Unless you're Andy Bolton.
    Just because there isn't someone else competing in contests doesn't mean there isn't someone stronger.

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