The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Its no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Super Moderator vdizenzo's Avatar
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    A backloading thread

    I know backloading is becoming more popular. This thread is not to argue if it's an original idea or for those who don't believe in it. This will be a thread where people who backload can share ideas. It's also a place where people who are interested can learn about the practice.

    I have a great tip that I happened upon for backloading. A principle of backloading is to consume less than 30 grams of carbs during the day. Well, those are net carbs. That means you can subtract the fiber from the overall carb number. Mission makes a great soft tortilla that is only 8 net grams of carbs. Made a few cheesesteaks on them last night and they were excellent. I have also made luncheon meat wraps. They definitely open up more meal options. Also, I am sure there are other soft tortilla's out there that are low net carbs, but those are the ones I found at my grocery store.


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  3. #2
    Moderator joey54's Avatar
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    Very good thread idea Vincent. Hope this one becomes popular.


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  4. #3
    Senior Member huskybear's Avatar
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    Hey Vincent,

    How did you decide to try the carb backloading?

    What nutritional approach pushed you in this direction if any?

    I ask as, having finally experienced a serious diet and proper eating, I see that I need carbs for my progress, but I need to control them to get my results. So I'm not sure whether to control my carb intake in a more traditional method or whether this is an approach that would be worthwhile.

    Thoughts?
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  5. #4
    Super Moderator vdizenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huskybear View Post
    Hey Vincent,

    How did you decide to try the carb backloading?

    What nutritional approach pushed you in this direction if any?

    I ask as, having finally experienced a serious diet and proper eating, I see that I need carbs for my progress, but I need to control them to get my results. So I'm not sure whether to control my carb intake in a more traditional method or whether this is an approach that would be worthwhile.

    Thoughts?
    I did carb cycling with Shelby. It worked very well, but it was very difficult. It needed to be. I started with him at around 24% bf. Unfortunately when I was done I rebounded a bit. I could not lead that discipline of an eating lifestyle. I held it together as much as possible, but I was definitely sliding. I saw some guys using and talking about backloading. It just made sense with me. I know I can be disciplined all day, but in the evening I'd love to loosen things up a bit. I did it on my own for a bit with some fair results. Then I worked with Kiefer and made some nice gains. Between Kiefer and his book I have learned a lot. This is truly and eating lifestyle for me now.


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  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by huskybear View Post
    Hey Vincent,

    How did you decide to try the carb backloading?

    What nutritional approach pushed you in this direction if any?

    I ask as, having finally experienced a serious diet and proper eating, I see that I need carbs for my progress, but I need to control them to get my results. So I'm not sure whether to control my carb intake in a more traditional method or whether this is an approach that would be worthwhile.

    Thoughts?
    I've seen Vincent make great progress with this. It's still a very disciplined approach. if I remember you from another thread, you might want to just try some basic dieting ideas before you dive into this. I'm not saying you can't or shouldnt do it,b ut I think you can make some solid progress towards your goals before going this route.

    If I do remember, you haven't quite grasped the training ideas in 5/3/1. Why add another concept in before you've mastered one? Just my take. Have at it.

  7. #6
    Senior Member huskybear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post
    I've seen Vincent make great progress with this. It's still a very disciplined approach. if I remember you from another thread, you might want to just try some basic dieting ideas before you dive into this. I'm not saying you can't or shouldnt do it,b ut I think you can make some solid progress towards your goals before going this route.

    If I do remember, you haven't quite grasped the training ideas in 5/3/1. Why add another concept in before you've mastered one? Just my take. Have at it.
    Sweet blunt honesty... you are completely correct in that assessment and logic Matt.

    Vincent, thanks for the reply... makes complete sense and I feel similarly in the discipline so I will consider it...

    But not now I'm thinking. While I was disciplined for the past 3 months and figured things out diet wise, I suspect that Matt's advice is bang on... I'll stay basic and make some small changes to the program that was working meal wise and see how that works towards getting to my goals over a longer period of time. Then I can work in a new concept.

    This is why its great to be back on here. Thanks guys. Much appreciated!
    He who gains victory over other men is strong; but he who gains victory over himself is strong(er)

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  8. #7
    Senior Member DontTakeEmOff31's Avatar
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    I listened to a couple of your Just Big shows where you talked about back loading (one was an interview with Kiefer). I thought back loading was interesting and did have a couple questions.

    How much of your actual calorie input came from before / after lifting? Right now I'm doing a bulk (4500 - 5000 calories) but most of those come from before I lift since I can't get to the gym until around 6 or 7, and by the time I am done its late and I have almost no appetite after lifting. I'm debating switching to back loading after I'm at a weight I want to maintain, not sure if I could eat enough after lifting to make the back loading worth while though.

    Also, when you switched to back loading were you trying to loose weight or was it more to maintain / recomp? I've always had a hard time maintaining a weight, and if this diet allowed you to maintain or recomp slightly at a current weight I'd seriously consider using it once I'm done bulking.
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  9. #8
    Super Moderator vdizenzo's Avatar
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    I eat at least half my calories post workout. I love to eat, so this is not an issue I have regardless of time. Believe me, on no carbs all day you will have plenty of an appetite after training.

    I decided to backload to recomp and maintain. It's been really easy to maintain on this program and I have gotten stronger.


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  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by DontTakeEmOff31 View Post
    I listened to a couple of your Just Big shows where you talked about back loading (one was an interview with Kiefer). I thought back loading was interesting and did have a couple questions.

    How much of your actual calorie input came from before / after lifting? Right now I'm doing a bulk (4500 - 5000 calories) but most of those come from before I lift since I can't get to the gym until around 6 or 7, and by the time I am done its late and I have almost no appetite after lifting. I'm debating switching to back loading after I'm at a weight I want to maintain, not sure if I could eat enough after lifting to make the back loading worth while though.

    Also, when you switched to back loading were you trying to loose weight or was it more to maintain / recomp? I've always had a hard time maintaining a weight, and if this diet allowed you to maintain or recomp slightly at a current weight I'd seriously consider using it once I'm done bulking.
    Its important to note that Kiefer recommends to not count your calories. You eat when you are hungry until you are no longer hungry, and you dont eat if you arent hungry. Also, because the pre-training part has you eating P+F, which are very filling, it is likely that you will be eating less calories. For example, i only have one meal before i train (i train at 7) and i find myself not being hungry at all.

    Regarding the backloading part, Kiefer provides several adjustments if your training time is different than the recommended time. Whilst not being the most optimal, it will still give great results. Also, i can get 400-500 grams of carbs in post workout and i only have around 1.5-2 hours after my training.

    I can really recommend the book. It is one of the best i have read so far.

  11. #10
    Super Moderator vdizenzo's Avatar
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    Something I have also notice for me the past few weekends, I need to stay away from backloading carbs such as ice cream and cookies as snack foods after my post workout meals. I put on weight too easily from them. The additional fat in those items vs rice cakes, pudding, bread, and pretzels carry additional calories. I also felt like I got a little softer in the process. I can do a little bit one night, but not on all four of my backloading nights.


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  12. #11
    LuNa
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    Quote Originally Posted by vdizenzo View Post
    Something I have also notice for me the past few weekends, I need to stay away from backloading carbs such as ice cream and cookies as snack foods after my post workout meals. I put on weight too easily from them. The additional fat in those items vs rice cakes, pudding, bread, and pretzels carry additional calories. I also felt like I got a little softer in the process. I can do a little bit one night, but not on all four of my backloading nights.
    I have experienced the same thing. When using higher fat carb sources like the ones you mentioned i tend to get bloated and it takes longer to get rid of it. I now mostly use white rice and kid's cereal as backloading food and try to keep fat intake down.

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by vdizenzo View Post
    I know backloading is becoming more popular. This thread is not to argue if it's an original idea or for those who don't believe in it. This will be a thread where people who backload can share ideas. It's also a place where people who are interested can learn about the practice.

    I have a great tip that I happened upon for backloading. A principle of backloading is to consume less than 30 grams of carbs during the day. Well, those are net carbs. That means you can subtract the fiber from the overall carb number. Mission makes a great soft tortilla that is only 8 net grams of carbs. Made a few cheesesteaks on them last night and they were excellent. I have also made luncheon meat wraps. They definitely open up more meal options. Also, I am sure there are other soft tortilla's out there that are low net carbs, but those are the ones I found at my grocery store.
    Nice thread.
    I am back loading carbs for about a month and half now with HCT12. Initially it was pretty hard to mentally to eat no carbs through the day. This was because I was coming off Kris Gethin's 12 week hardcore trainer ( along with the diet ). But as i kinda eased in to this, it started getting easier and better. A few food recommendations eating out through the day.

    # Salad at chipotle with cheese, meats and salsa. Less than 10 grams of carbs. This is probably the best choice for lunch for me.
    # Subway salads with grilled chicken.
    # Carl's Jr or Hardees, they will replace bun with wrapping lettuce on all the sandwiches.

    The problem i am currently having is in managing the rest days. How do you handle the rest days in terms of diet and cardio.

  14. #13
    Super Moderator vdizenzo's Avatar
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    I keep two of my rest/cardio days low carb. I try to stay within 30 net grams of carbs. My other day I backload in the evening because I bench heavy the next day.


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  15. #14
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
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    This is interesting to me. Is their a book on this I can get? And what is the simple difference between carb cycling and carb backloading?
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  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoopipally View Post
    This is interesting to me. Is their a book on this I can get? And what is the simple difference between carb cycling and carb backloading?
    Cycling carbs is to eat high , medium and low carbs through the week as a cycle. This is great too. Different people implement it in different ways. With cycling carbs the major issue i had was working out the day after the no carb days.

    Back loading is eating all of your carbs after working out ( ideally between 3 to 5 pm). There is a book.
    Last edited by su9062; 05-19-2012 at 12:10 PM.

  17. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuNa View Post
    Its important to note that Kiefer recommends to not count your calories. You eat when you are hungry until you are no longer hungry, and you dont eat if you arent hungry. Also, because the pre-training part has you eating P+F, which are very filling, it is likely that you will be eating less calories. For example, i only have one meal before i train (i train at 7) and i find myself not being hungry at all.

    Regarding the backloading part, Kiefer provides several adjustments if your training time is different than the recommended time. Whilst not being the most optimal, it will still give great results. Also, i can get 400-500 grams of carbs in post workout and i only have around 1.5-2 hours after my training.

    I can really recommend the book. It is one of the best i have read so far.
    For those of you who are taking green tea or any hunger suppressing supplements this would be a key thing. I am taking green tea with all the other pre workout things the past week or so. I was taking it before i started back loading. But with backloading it might not be optimal. The reason is that you wouldn't feel like eating as much as you are supposed to.

  18. #17
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by su9062 View Post
    Cycling carbs is to eat high , medium and low carbs through the week as a cycle. This is great too. Different people implement it in different ways. With cycling carbs the major issue i had was working out the day after the no carb days.

    Back loading is eating all of your carbs after working out ( ideally between 3 to 5 pm). There is a book.
    Makes sense. Thanks.
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  19. #18
    Senior Member Jonathan E's Avatar
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    Since were talking about it:

    If your trying to 'maintain' weight and just recomp/get in better cardio shape(while still making gym gains,obviously), would carb backloading or carb cycling be better? Or does it just vary?
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  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoopipally View Post
    Since were talking about it:

    If your trying to 'maintain' weight and just recomp/get in better cardio shape(while still making gym gains,obviously), would carb backloading or carb cycling be better? Or does it just vary?
    Maintaining weight would be easier with back loading I would say. Depending on how you implement the cycling it could be easy too. The number of variables in back loading is small. I would suggest back load carbs for a few weeks, if you think you are gaining fat fast, cycle carbs for a few weeks until you find a good rhythm between both.

  21. #20
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    I am also dealing with feeling extremely warm / hot right after the back load meal post workout. It is kinda crazy and interferes with your sleep cycle I think.

  22. #21
    Super Moderator vdizenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by su9062 View Post
    I am also dealing with feeling extremely warm / hot right after the back load meal post workout. It is kinda crazy and interferes with your sleep cycle I think.
    Oh my God, my carb meal puts me to sleep. How close to your bedtime do you eat your backloading meal?


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  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by vdizenzo View Post
    Oh my God, my carb meal puts me to sleep. How close to your bedtime do you eat your backloading meal?
    I eat at about 7 Pm. One meal only, about 200 grams carbs and around 1500 calories. The increase in body temperature is giving really active brain signals, last night I had a dream, i was kinda like in a movie like the Gladiator! lol

  24. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoopipally View Post
    Since were talking about it:

    If your trying to 'maintain' weight and just recomp/get in better cardio shape(while still making gym gains,obviously), would carb backloading or carb cycling be better? Or does it just vary?
    Actually I just realized the way most people backloading carbs over the week, it in itself is a cycling approach. Someone eating 30 grams or less carbs 2 or 3 days a week and shooting about 250 - 500 grams the other days is a good cycling pattern.

  25. #24
    LuNa
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    Quote Originally Posted by su9062 View Post
    I am also dealing with feeling extremely warm / hot right after the back load meal post workout. It is kinda crazy and interferes with your sleep cycle I think.
    This is extremely normal when backloading. You are basically throwing gasoline (high amounts of carbs) on a fire (your metabolism). I tend to get the carb sweats as well.

    Like Vincent, the backload meal makes me pretty lethargic/sleepy. I eat my last meal about 20-30 mins before going to bed and sleep like a baby.

  26. #25
    Dr. Subtotal
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    I feel backloading works well with people such as myself who have an erratic schedule. One problem I had with carb cycling was when I'd schedule a high carb day for my SQ/DL days and work would put my training off that day so I just spent all day shoveling carbs with no workout. With backloading, everyday before workout is basically the same eating pattern so if I have to shift a workout, all is not lost lol.
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