The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Its no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Wannabebig Member
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    Gain strength but not weight?

    Simple question really, Is it possible develop power without having to pile on the pounds?

    I want to stay out of the super heavy weight class for boxing but get those numbers shifting too.

    Am I asking too much?

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  3. #2
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    Don't eat over your maintenance level.

  4. #3
    Senior Member KevinStarke's Avatar
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    I'm a prime example of this, i've been 160 for a good long while now but have made good strength gains in all my lifts since I moved up from the 148 class to the 165 class. The key in my opinion is to just eat when your hungry but make sure the foods are healthy, quality foods and train in the low rep/high weight range when you lift. Its easily doable.

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinStarke View Post
    The key in my opinion is to just eat when your hungry
    Doesn't really work for everyone. I know that if I didn't track what I ate I would definately lose a lot of weight.

  6. #5
    Senior Member KevinStarke's Avatar
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    Well after enough training/eating you should know your body well enough to know when your over or undereating...

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by pulpmelon View Post
    Simple question really, Is it possible develop power without having to pile on the pounds?

    I want to stay out of the super heavy weight class for boxing but get those numbers shifting too.

    Am I asking too much?
    No, that's not asking for too much, you can gain a lot of strength without gaining a pound, but you might lose fat in the process

  8. #7
    Hulk Smash! LouPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sexybeast777 View Post
    No, that's not asking for too much, you can gain a lot of strength without gaining a pound, but you might lose fat in the process
    I have to disagree with this.

  9. #8
    THUNDER THIGHS! Fuzzy's Avatar
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    Boys! Play nice lol.

    How about both of you state WHY you disagree... then agree to disagree?

    Please, Id really like to know

    This topic is of interest to me. Right now, Im trying to lose as much weight as possible.

    Come next year, rowing offseason April-August, I wanna get very damn strong, training hard, 3-5 reps, alot of sets.

    If its possible, Id prefer not to put on any weight, and I wouldent mind losing some. Stay light for the boat.
    Being a strong teenager means nothing.

    My wrists hurt, but some people don't have wrists to be sore. My knees have tendinitis, but some people don't have legs to get tendinitis in. I seem to be going backwards with training, yet some people can't even walk let alone lift 400 pounds on a daily basis.

    Dust out the vagina, and keep on lifting.

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
    Boys! Play nice lol.

    How about both of you state WHY you disagree... then agree to disagree?

    Please, Id really like to know

    This topic is of interest to me. Right now, Im trying to lose as much weight as possible.

    Come next year, rowing offseason April-August, I wanna get very damn strong, training hard, 3-5 reps, alot of sets.

    If its possible, Id prefer not to put on any weight, and I wouldent mind losing some. Stay light for the boat.
    Fuzzy, I must admit, I admire your incredible enthusiasm! It's rare now a days to see 14yr olds being so serious and determined about their physical goals and stuff, I wish more kids were like you

  11. #10
    THUNDER THIGHS! Fuzzy's Avatar
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    Hehehe, thanks sexy.

    Now, answer the question!
    Being a strong teenager means nothing.

    My wrists hurt, but some people don't have wrists to be sore. My knees have tendinitis, but some people don't have legs to get tendinitis in. I seem to be going backwards with training, yet some people can't even walk let alone lift 400 pounds on a daily basis.

    Dust out the vagina, and keep on lifting.

  12. #11
    HomeYield WillKuenzel's Avatar
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    Do any of ya'll know anything about CNS recruitment?

    You can get stronger without gaining or losing any weight. You can get stronger while putting on muscle or losing fat. It doesn't matter. Strength is going to be a matter of nervous system adaptation as it could be with muscle gain. When a muscle contracts, its possible that not every fiber has to be utilized. Otherwise when you bent over to pick up a box it would seem like a 1RM attempt. Your body is lazy and will only do what little bit it has to in order to get the job done.

    That being said, when do go to do a 1RM attempt your body might not understand what's happening and only utilitze about 60-70% of the muscle fibers needed to do the work. Keep training to do the exercise and keep training the exercise itself and you gradually be able to get more out of muscles when they adapt to the exercise.

    There is some carryover from lifts to movements but if you really want to get better at a movement you have to do it more often and under harder circumstances to force your body to adapt, either muscular or nervous.
    What is elite?
    "Those who work the hardest often complain the least." -anonymous
    Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.

  13. #12
    Iced Earth - Stormrider ArchAngel777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HomeYield View Post
    Do any of ya'll know anything about CNS recruitment?

    You can get stronger without gaining or losing any weight. You can get stronger while putting on muscle or losing fat. It doesn't matter. Strength is going to be a matter of nervous system adaptation as it could be with muscle gain. When a muscle contracts, its possible that not every fiber has to be utilized. Otherwise when you bent over to pick up a box it would seem like a 1RM attempt. Your body is lazy and will only do what little bit it has to in order to get the job done.

    That being said, when do go to do a 1RM attempt your body might not understand what's happening and only utilitze about 60-70% of the muscle fibers needed to do the work. Keep training to do the exercise and keep training the exercise itself and you gradually be able to get more out of muscles when they adapt to the exercise.

    There is some carryover from lifts to movements but if you really want to get better at a movement you have to do it more often and under harder circumstances to force your body to adapt, either muscular or nervous.
    I do now, thanks!

  14. #13
    HomeYield WillKuenzel's Avatar
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    Its a very very crude explanation but that's the general idea of how powerlifters or anybody else gets stronger without going up or down in their respective weight classes.
    What is elite?
    "Those who work the hardest often complain the least." -anonymous
    Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.

  15. #14
    THUNDER THIGHS! Fuzzy's Avatar
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    Hmmm.

    That is very cool!

    So, on an ergo, or in a boat, Ill pull the handle and oar 20,000 times in a week. Im sire thats some muscle recruitment lol.

    Is this also why routines are good, in order to achieve good CNS?

    I have every session planned down. ALl excersizes everything, and I follow it in a religious routine.

    Thats cool, thanks guys.
    Being a strong teenager means nothing.

    My wrists hurt, but some people don't have wrists to be sore. My knees have tendinitis, but some people don't have legs to get tendinitis in. I seem to be going backwards with training, yet some people can't even walk let alone lift 400 pounds on a daily basis.

    Dust out the vagina, and keep on lifting.

  16. #15
    THUNDER THIGHS! Fuzzy's Avatar
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    Hmmm.... random thought.

    Would going to failure, then assisted for 3 reps after help with the CNS thing, cause you really have to activate every bit of the muscle????

    (Slam me if Im wrong)
    Being a strong teenager means nothing.

    My wrists hurt, but some people don't have wrists to be sore. My knees have tendinitis, but some people don't have legs to get tendinitis in. I seem to be going backwards with training, yet some people can't even walk let alone lift 400 pounds on a daily basis.

    Dust out the vagina, and keep on lifting.

  17. #16
    T.J.W. nhlfan's Avatar
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    you don't want to tire out your CNS excessively.
    -Matt
    gym lifts: squat: 341lbs, deadlift: 374lbs, bench: 275lbs
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  18. #17
    THUNDER THIGHS! Fuzzy's Avatar
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    But... is my thinking logical?

    Not saying excessive, but to failure, and bit beyond.
    Being a strong teenager means nothing.

    My wrists hurt, but some people don't have wrists to be sore. My knees have tendinitis, but some people don't have legs to get tendinitis in. I seem to be going backwards with training, yet some people can't even walk let alone lift 400 pounds on a daily basis.

    Dust out the vagina, and keep on lifting.

  19. #18
    Who me? Chubrock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
    But... is my thinking logical?

    Not saying excessive, but to failure, and bit beyond.


    They are one in the same thing.

    Fuck, fight, or hold the light.

  20. #19
    HomeYield WillKuenzel's Avatar
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    Fuzzy, no. Because at that point the CNS has already fatigued. Training to muscular failure is more of a CNS failure than muscular. It takes longer for the CNS to recover than muscles and you don't train the muscles to failure every time so you definitely don't train the CNS to failure all the time either. Getting a few forced reps here and there ain't a bad idea but its not something to do on a regular basis.
    What is elite?
    "Those who work the hardest often complain the least." -anonymous
    Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.

  21. #20
    next-tyson-but-white arnoldsclone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HomeYield View Post
    Fuzzy, no. Because at that point the CNS has already fatigued. Training to muscular failure is more of a CNS failure than muscular. It takes longer for the CNS to recover than muscles and you don't train the muscles to failure every time so you definitely don't train the CNS to failure all the time either. Getting a few forced reps here and there ain't a bad idea but its not something to do on a regular basis.
    i always seem to gasin tons of strength when i lift to failure on every set though........ you think if i only did failure on my last set or to ( i do a 5 by 5) i'd gain more strength?

    Ahnold says, " milk is for babies!"
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  22. #21
    Senior Member KevinStarke's Avatar
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    For as long as I trained at Hollywoods with Phil I think he made me go to failure during a set once.. maybe twice. I dont see how forced reps would help your strength very much at all.

  23. #22
    Back in business WBBIRL's Avatar
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    Forced maybe not, but assisted reps can help a lot. Again something to be used sparingly, but using weights for a portion of a rep (say the eccentric portion of a bench) that you can use for the whole motion create a lot more intensity then the body is use to for obvious reasons.

    I've done it both ways, I put on a lot of weight with relatively low strength upon gaining all that weight and I've lost weight while putting on decent strength. Like mentioned above, most of the increases you will see in strength is nothing more then training your body to recruit more muscle fibers when you lift.

  24. #23
    Who me? Chubrock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WBBIRL View Post
    Forced maybe not, but assisted reps can help a lot. Again something to be used sparingly, but using weights for a portion of a rep (say the eccentric portion of a bench) that you can use for the whole motion create a lot more intensity then the body is use to for obvious reasons.

    I've done it both ways, I put on a lot of weight with relatively low strength upon gaining all that weight and I've lost weight while putting on decent strength. Like mentioned above, most of the increases you will see in strength is nothing more then training your body to recruit more muscle fibers when you lift.

    There's a difference between working certain parts of a lift (Concentric GMs, Rack Squats etc) and doing assisted reps. IMO anyway.

    Fuck, fight, or hold the light.

  25. #24
    Senior Member KevinStarke's Avatar
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    If you need assistance your not doing the rep and I really dont see it helping you rather than tiring you out before your next set.

  26. #25
    no matter what SaVvY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pulpmelon View Post
    Simple question really, Is it possible develop power without having to pile on the pounds?

    I want to stay out of the super heavy weight class for boxing but get those numbers shifting too.

    Am I asking too much?
    no your not - its very simple, strength train and dont eat enough to grow

    without the food to build your body up, it will instead be forced to get stronger, as it must deal with the heavy weights your pushing it to do

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