The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

It’s no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #251
    Senior Member betastas's Avatar
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    No problem. I think you would enjoy some of Richard Dawkins writings. The Blind Watchmaker is an excellent book to start with, doesn't bash religion (as far as I have seen) and illustrates how evolution could have proceeded. It covers lots of material and is explained clearly. It gives lots of food for thought and doesn't discount the existence of God.

  2. #252
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    Oh my Science...
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  3. #253
    It's a Republic dammit! reloaded's Avatar
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    The existence of a god who could create all of this simply begs for more questions, such as who god is and where he came from. Many religious people state "Well, he always was, you can't understand god!"
    I think this is something that people think about wrong. Many people think of creation and God in terms of linear time, i.e. past->present->future. But I don't think we can think of God like this is a linear manner. I think you can only think about God in terms of a circle, or neverending cycle...kind of like a neverending spiral.
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  4. #254
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordanbcool View Post
    So. It was a great discussion and I liked hearing another side with intelligent facts and knowledge that supports what they say. Most of my family is also extremly religious and their answer for everything is "god did it" that always drove me nuts. I hate that. No explination at all. If god exists, convince me he does. If he doesnt....convince me he doesnt........

    Anyways, thanks.
    I take back like 95% of the negative things I said previously.
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  5. #255
    Is cutting down to 9% Jordanbcool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belial View Post
    I take back like 95% of the negative things I said previously.
    lol.

    I will see you at some random arnold and we'll have a good laugh about it.

    P.S. If I'm ever about to get banned or something. Put in a good word to relentless for me
    Last edited by Jordanbcool; 12-13-2006 at 08:02 PM.
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  6. #256
    Superman sharkall2003's Avatar
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    I've been looking further into the God thing. I am also currently going to pick up a few Stephen Hawking's books and read them. I want to be more informed. I have read some material on evolution and deism and on the big bang, but I have never thoroughly navigated through texts that address the theory.
    Last edited by sharkall2003; 12-13-2006 at 10:19 PM.
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  7. #257
    Smeagol on Steroids Mercuryblade's Avatar
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    I've been looking further into the God thing. I am also currently going to pick up a few Stephen Hawking's books and read them. I want to be more informed. I have read some material on evolution and deism and on the big bang, but I have never thoroughly navigated through texts that address the theory.
    Science and religion are not incompatible, I don't see why people need to feel they are.
    What if God's whole great plan of giving us free will, was to give us the intellect to explore the bible itself, and rather than reading it like it was a textbook, decipher what actually makes sense and what doesn't? Thus only those individuals who actually took the time to study the bible, and the philosophy of the world would have a better understanding of the "true" religion.
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  8. #258
    Senior Member betastas's Avatar
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    Why not read the Qur'an? Or Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching (Not exactly a religious script, but highly relevant none the less)? In your reply it appears that you state Christianity is the true religion. Is this not a little unfair? I am assuming that you have not studied world religions in depth, evaluated their principles and teachings and determined in an unbiased matter (which would require proof) that Christianity is the true religion.

    Perhaps you meant that there really is only one religion per say, which is a mishmash of all of them?

  9. #259
    Superman sharkall2003's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by betastas View Post
    Why not read the Qur'an? Or Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching (Not exactly a religious script, but highly relevant none the less)? In your reply it appears that you state Christianity is the true religion. Is this not a little unfair? I am assuming that you have not studied world religions in depth, evaluated their principles and teachings and determined in an unbiased matter (which would require proof) that Christianity is the true religion.

    Perhaps you meant that there really is only one religion per say, which is a mishmash of all of them?
    I was thinking he was mishmashing Christianity with other scientific theories, ideas, facts etc. I think I have came to the conclusion that there are so many possibilities that I am willing to look into other ideas more closely and widen my horizons. I believe in Jesus Christ as my savior, but the best gift I was given was free will. I am free to do what I want and I want to learn, live, and expand. I won't quit the traditions of the Roman Catholic Church, but I might find and learn about other theoretical ideas on how the Universe came into existence.
    Last edited by sharkall2003; 12-14-2006 at 07:09 AM.
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  10. #260
    Senior Member betastas's Avatar
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    I am assuming that he meant the line is a little more blurred. The "true" religion probably refers to the ideal following of a particular sect (like a true christian, true muslim, etc.).
    I'm sure he'll elaborate.

  11. #261
    Smeagol on Steroids Mercuryblade's Avatar
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    I am assuming that he meant the line is a little more blurred. The "true" religion probably refers to the ideal following of a particular sect
    It was just a question, nothing more should be implied from it.

    I believe in Jesus Christ as my savior, but the best gift I was given was free will. I am free to do what I want and I want to learn, live, and expand. I won't quit the traditions of the Roman Catholic Church, but I might find and learn about other theoretical ideas on how the Universe came into existence.
    This is pretty much the answer I was looking for.
    Last edited by Mercuryblade; 12-14-2006 at 04:27 PM.
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  12. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercuryblade View Post
    I posted those contradictions, and said some of them weren't correct, and said it wasn't my work, debunking some of them doesn't prove anything.
    Take this:
    Is God omnipotent?
    • Jeremiah 32:27 "Behold, I am the Lord, the God of all flesh: is there anything too hard for me?
    • Matthew 19:26 "But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."

    vs.

    • Judges 1:19 "And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron."

    Does God change his mind?
    • Malachi 3:6 "For I am the Lord; I change not."

    vs.
    • Exodus 32:14 "And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people."
    See Genesis 18:23-33, where Abraham gets God to change his mind about the minimum number of righteous people in Sodom required to avoid destruction, bargaining down from fifty to ten. (An omniscient God must have known that he was playing with Abraham's hopes for mercy--he destroyed the city anyway.)

    FYI: Don't assume I'm one of those atheists out to destroy religion. I'm just trying to get others to admit the bible is a flawed document, which it clearly is. I'm not attempting to destroy other people's faiths.
    I'm not assuming that you are one of those atheists that are out to destroy religion. I feel like we have had a very civil discussion so far and I enjoy testing my faith like this discussion is doing.

    Is God omnipotent?

    In the first two examples God is speaking about His might and sovereignty. In Judges 1:19, when it says "he" it is referring to Judah, not God.

    Does God change his mind?

    When God says in Malachi For I am the Lord; I change not, He is speaking about His nature and character. But this does not mean that He cannot change how He works with people throughout history.

    Exodus 32:14 is speaking of the Lord “repenting,” and that seems to be contrary to what other verses teach about God as unchanging. In the original language, the word that is translated as “repent,” or “relent” and that is the Hebrew expression of “to be sorry for.” Being sorry for something does not mean that a change has occurred; it simply means that there is regret for something that has taken place.

    When I say God does not “change” I do not think anyone is so naive as to think that this means that God is static, never does anything, or never says anything. Nor can it be asserted to mean that God does not alter stated plans in reaction to human freewill choices.

    The story in Genesis 18:23-33, indicates that with intercession, God will make a change in an announced plan. But you say if God is omniscient, then He knew in advance what Abraham would ask for and knew also what the end result would be. God asked rhetorically in Genesis 18:17, whether He should tell Abraham what His plans are, and that the number of possible righteous goes only to 10 -- the next logical increment, 5, would have been less than the number of Lot's family of 6. All Abraham is really doing is pleading for Lot's safety here. God dealt with Abraham in human terms for his own sake; but even before the conversation started, the matter was decided. God did not change or compromise, but he dropped a very strong hint that intercession on Abraham's part was desired. This incident was more than a typical barter-exchange. It was a meeting that laid down the terms upon which God would relate to His covenant people. He knew what they would do; but He also wanted them to come to Him in their need.

  13. #263
    Senior Member Invain's Avatar
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  14. #264
    Senior Member Invain's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Jordanbcool]So. It was a great discussion and I liked hearing another side with intelligent facts and knowledge that supports what they say. Most of my family is also extremly religious and their answer for everything is "god did it" that always drove me nuts. I hate that. No explination at all. If god exists, convince me he does. If he doesnt....convince me he doesnt........
    QUOTE]

    Convince me everything the entire universe at one point took up less space than a tiny dot. Convince me that the earth was created billions of years ago, and we evolved from a bunch of goo. The arguments for religion and science could go on forever, and both will never be proven. Yes, science is science and many things are known to be fact, but much of it is also theory, and no matter what they claim to say, scientisits really don't have any more of a clue how the earth formed than you do. Hey, I could pull something out of my ass too, like, a giant panda sneezed and the universe evolved from organisms living in his snot.... Now say I'm a very presitious scientist and a large portion of the scientific community backs my theory. Where did the big bang come from anyways? Some dude made it up. If you can believe some rediculous claim made by a few individuals just because they are scientists, then please don't get mad at your parents when they give you their opinion. Believing in evolution is just as far-fetched as believing in god, and it all boils down to personal opinion and faith.
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  15. #265
    Superman sharkall2003's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Invain;1563030]
    Quote Originally Posted by Jordanbcool
    So. It was a great discussion and I liked hearing another side with intelligent facts and knowledge that supports what they say. Most of my family is also extremly religious and their answer for everything is "god did it" that always drove me nuts. I hate that. No explination at all. If god exists, convince me he does. If he doesnt....convince me he doesnt........
    QUOTE]

    Convince me everything the entire universe at one point took up less space than a tiny dot. Convince me that the earth was created billions of years ago, and we evolved from a bunch of goo. The arguments for religion and science could go on forever, and both will never be proven. Yes, science is science and many things are known to be fact, but much of it is also theory, and no matter what they claim to say, scientisits really don't have any more of a clue how the earth formed than you do. Hey, I could pull something out of my ass too, like, a giant panda sneezed and the universe evolved from organisms living in his snot.... Now say I'm a very presitious scientist and a large portion of the scientific community backs my theory. Where did the big bang come from anyways? Some dude made it up. If you can believe some rediculous claim made by a few individuals just because they are scientists, then please don't get mad at your parents when they give you their opinion. Believing in evolution is just as far-fetched as believing in god, and it all boils down to personal opinion and faith.
    I agreed with everything except for what's in bold. Even the Deacon of our head church in the diocese actually said evolution did take place. And so did many of our other professors.
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  16. #266
    Senior Member betastas's Avatar
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    Yes, science is science and many things are known to be fact, but much of it is also theory, and no matter what they claim to say, scientisits really don't have any more of a clue how the earth formed than you do. Hey, I could pull something out of my ass too, like, a giant panda sneezed and the universe evolved from organisms living in his snot.... Now say I'm a very presitious scientist and a large portion of the scientific community backs my theory. Where did the big bang come from anyways? Some dude made it up. If you can believe some rediculous claim made by a few individuals just because they are scientists, then please don't get mad at your parents when they give you their opinion. Believing in evolution is just as far-fetched as believing in god, and it all boils down to personal opinion and faith.[/QUOTE]

    Scientists base theories off of facts and other theories. You are correct that a theory has no conclusive proof, only portions of proof. Theories aren't just made up without a foundation. That's what we call foolishness and fake science, which is effectively filtered out of mainstream academics.

    The difference between you and your panda theory and other more mainstream theories is that you are unable to scientifically defend your theory. You are not a respected academic in the field of theoretical physics nor cellular biology. You do realize that theories undergo substantial peer-review and criticism, and are actually torn apart far more viciously than you can imagine. If the theory still stands up after all this examination, then it is considered plausible.

    I do understand that you know little about the big bang theory, universal expansion and quantum particles. I also understand that you know little about what true evolution is. Perhaps you should educated yourself on these things before you make broad assertions that all scientists are phony.

  17. #267
    Smeagol on Steroids Mercuryblade's Avatar
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    You are not a respected academic in the field of theoretical physics nor cellular biology. You do realize that theories undergo substantial peer-review and criticism, and are actually torn apart far more viciously than you can imagine. If the theory still stands up after all this examination, then it is considered plausible.
    More people need to know this about theories. I don't know how many times I've tried to explain to people that a theory is not quite what they think it is. Alot of famous contributions to many fields of science are just "theories". The idea of the molecule itself is just a scientific theory. Why? Because nobody has ever actually seen a molecule before, yet there have been literally thousands upon thousands of experiments that cooincide with the proposed model.

    Invain if you have questions about how evolution works or why certain theories like the primordial soup are actually feasible I can glady answer them.


    On a different note, good reponse LC.
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  18. #268
    Superman sharkall2003's Avatar
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    The only problem I have with a theory is this: There are hundreds and hundreds of them and then which one sounds the best and is most "factually based" as you say is chosen. Well, I was taught that theories are far from the truth and as far as we know it there are very very few facts that human know of.
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  19. #269
    Is cutting down to 9% Jordanbcool's Avatar
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    Evolution is all around us. The most prominent form we have in the super bacteria we are creating with our mis-use of antibiotics. We can see that in real time right in front of our eyes.

    However, this doesn't mean that god didn't have a hand in evolution. He could have created us and then allowed evolution to take place so we could better adapt to our ever changing environments.

    Of course scientists have alot of evidence to support evolution and what not which I have a ton of respect for. Really, all science is are people trying to explain our world with logical thoughts and ideas. We wont know everything and we certainly wont know how we came to be or our underlying purpose on this earth....but right now we should just believe whatever we'd like to or what we make our minds up about based on facts or guts.
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    "I'll tell you a secret. Something they don't teach you in your temple. The Gods envy us. They envy us because we're mortal, because any moment might be our last. Everything is more beautiful because we're doomed. You will never be lovelier than you are now. We will never be here again." - Achilles, (Troy 2004)
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  20. #270
    Is cutting down to 9% Jordanbcool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharkall2003 View Post
    The only problem I have with a theory is this: There are hundreds and hundreds of them and then which one sounds the best and is most "factually based" as you say is chosen. Well, I was taught that theories are far from the truth and as far as we know it there are very very few facts that human know of.
    Yup.

    Remember how flat the world used to be? After a while of sailing we'd eventually just fall off into space.
    Getting back in the groove
    "I'll tell you a secret. Something they don't teach you in your temple. The Gods envy us. They envy us because we're mortal, because any moment might be our last. Everything is more beautiful because we're doomed. You will never be lovelier than you are now. We will never be here again." - Achilles, (Troy 2004)
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  21. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharkall2003 View Post
    The only problem I have with a theory is this: There are hundreds and hundreds of them and then which one sounds the best and is most "factually based" as you say is chosen. Well, I was taught that theories are far from the truth and as far as we know it there are very very few facts that human know of.
    I'm not quite sure what you mean by "far from the truth". This implies that we know the correct answer and that theories are simplified version of them

    Theories are ideas, concepts and/or explanations of observed facts that are capable of being tested through experimentation. They must also be falsifiable; that is be able to proven false by observation (ex: I saw an apple float up, so the theory of garvoty is wrong). The theory must also be able to provide a single specific predition about the outcome of a situation. This prediction must also be falsifiable. I can't be a weather man and say "well it's either going to rain, or not rain".

    This is where I have a problem with the "God is all, we can't understand him" statement. There is no way to prove it false.


    PS I'm back in this thread....I don't want to study computer archetecture (sp? I think there's an "i" in there somewhere) anymore.

  22. #272
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    Oh, and just throw this out there about the alien life forms:

    Drake equation
    The Drake equation states that:

    N = R* x fp x ne x fl x fi x fc x L

    where:

    N is the number of civilizations in our galaxy with which we might expect to be able to communicate at any given time

    and

    R* is the rate of star formation in our galaxy
    fp is the fraction of those stars that have planets
    ne is average number of planets that can potentially support life per star that has planets
    fl is the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop life
    fi is the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop intelligent life
    fc is the fraction of the above that are willing and able to communicate
    L is the expected lifetime of such a civilization

    Here's the wikipedia article this is from. It has a lot of arguments for/against the Drake equation. It's definately a good read. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation

  23. #273
    Iced Earth - Stormrider ArchAngel777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sCaRz*Of*PaiN View Post
    ^^

    Actually the sun has about 5 billion years left of juice.
    Is that all? Dang... I am gonna start working on tech to fix that!

  24. #274
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    Mercuryblade and anyone else who do not believe in God:
    What do you think of about all of the prophecies in the bible that have been fulfilled and how do you explain all of these prophecies?

  25. #275
    Senior Member betastas's Avatar
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    Can you please specify the prophecies and when and how they took place, including references to scripture that is as close to the original as you can find?
    Thanks.

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