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Thread: Our purpose as a whole

  1. #26
    Is cutting down to 9% Jordanbcool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddegroff View Post
    Its closer than we all think. We already have AI robots who can learn. So when it happens. Ill be in the mountains watch the **** hit the fan.

    As far as what is our purpose?

    Who cares, do what you want to do. And when its over, its over. how are you going to really know the difference?
    Meh. This stuff just interests me ALOT. So much that I'm seriously considering making my minor in college biology related. Organisms, genes, evolution etc. etc. fascinate me.

    I dont know why we are designing robots for competition? For example: Instead of trying to make super computers we should be trying to design memory chips that can be inplanted in our brains. This will enhance cognition, and a host of other brain related functions; Making us faster, smarter, and enhance our senses 10 fold.

    I also think this will be better in the long run. Instead of trying to make a few things super smart we should concentrate more on improving our entire race.
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  2. #27
    Back in business WBBIRL's Avatar
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    To further my input on this thread:

    I fully believe in god. I accept and believe he sent his only son into the world to pay for our transgressions. I do believe that I will go to heaven when I do pass on.

    But theres a logical side to me that has to analyze everything, meticulously and sometimes downright annoyingly (to other people). This may be a very poor overly crude example, but its like people who say something tastes like crap. I, sometimes to be a smart ass, then say "How do you know, did you ever eat ****?".

    The human brain, IMHO, is far too complex for manipulations of the kind mentioned here. We still have no cures for cancer or even the common cold. When you look how far we've (humans) come as a whole, you can predict that the ball will only keep rolling. Too bad none of us will be around to see much of a difference.

    On that note I hated biology. Mainly because I've hated every single Bio teacher I've ever had with a passion, but the subject itself never did much for me. Now science on the other hand, particularly physics, is my cup of tea.

  3. #28
    Senior Member Sidior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordanbcool View Post
    Meh. This stuff just interests me ALOT. So much that I'm seriously considering making my minor in college biology related. Organisms, genes, evolution etc. etc. fascinate me.

    I dont know why we are designing robots for competition? For example: Instead of trying to make super computers we should be trying to design memory chips that can be inplanted in our brains. This will enhance cognition, and a host of other brain related functions; Making us faster, smarter, and enhance our senses 10 fold.

    I also think this will be better in the long run. Instead of trying to make a few things super smart we should concentrate more on improving our entire race.
    Don't you think it would make more sense to fix all the major problems our race and world has before we try to enhance ourselves further?
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  4. #29
    Senior Member betastas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WBBIRL View Post

    The human brain, IMHO, is far too complex for manipulations of the kind mentioned here. We still have no cures for cancer or even the common cold.When you look how far we've (humans) come as a whole, you can predict that the ball will only keep rolling. Too bad none of us will be around to see much of a difference.

    On that note I hated biology. Mainly because I've hated every single Bio teacher I've ever had with a passion, but the subject itself never did much for me. Now science on the other hand, particularly physics, is my cup of tea.
    Colds are viral. You can't cure them. They use the biology of the human body to reproduce.
    Cancer is an effect of gene mutations. You can potentially repair genes, but thats still in its infancy.

  5. #30
    Senior Member betastas's Avatar
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    Personally, I think that humans are just as greedy, selfish and petty as they have ever been. The only difference is the scale has grown and the stakes have increased. Logically, the next 100 years will see several things.


    1. Greed and Corruption. The top 2% richest in the world currently own 50% of the wealth. The poorest 50% currently own less than 1% of the wealth. This gap will continue to widen. Large corporations will keep growing and outsourcing jobs to poorer nations. Fossil fuels keep getting burned, cars keep getting driven, energy consumption growth outpaces energy supply growth (as is currently happening). As China and India become more advanced, the demand for energy and consumer goods will increase beyond the capabilities of production. The energy shortage causes a stall in the global economy.

    2. Global Warming continues. Many equatorial countries fall into civil war from lack of food due to drought and desertification. The Malthusian dilemma begins on a smaller scale. Desertification, drought and lower crop yields hit other countries in succession, just as the waves of refugees begin to enter the nations. A cascading collapse begins as the Malthusian dilemma continues in more advanced places in the world such as the first world nations.
    Food supplies drop due to drought, and combined with an influx of immigrants, things become volatile. The decrease in ability to produce food, combined with increased localized population ensures localized conflicts.

    3. We're all living in a overheated, strife filled world where conflict is common, the quality of living has decreased significantly and there are still no solutions to the problems. Someone blows up a nuke in a crowded US city.

    4. We fight against mutant cockroaches with sticks and stones.

  6. #31
    Is cutting down to 9% Jordanbcool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by betastas View Post
    Colds are viral. You can't cure them. They use the biology of the human body to reproduce.
    Cancer is an effect of gene mutations. You can potentially repair genes, but thats still in its infancy.
    Even virus's follow basic principles. If they were unstoppable we probably wouldnt exist because they would kill us all off outright.

    Maybe we'll develop an advanced way to denature proteins surronding viruses causing them to basically die (if they are even alive) while saving the surronding organs or tissues.

    I'd reply more to yours and other posts later, I gotta go somewhere. Be back in an hour.

    Scary thing is. Antibiotics stop our defense systems from evolving enough to counteract the super-viruses we are making daily. I smell another plauge within our lifetime.
    Last edited by Jordanbcool; 12-10-2006 at 02:30 PM.
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordanbcool View Post
    I think it will be computers and machines. I think one day, we'll design something so perfect and intelligent that it will wonder what the hell its doing listening to us and turn on us. I really think that something off the matrix or the terminator movies will happen. It could def. happen with nuclear weapons (like in the terminator) and we'll be left to deal with the fallout.
    This is one thing I like to debate (it's my major ) and it is quite a topic. My personal belief is that I see no reason for it not to happen. We understand how the brain works in terms of its basic functional unit, the neuron. We can make a program that uses a neural network which mimics the brain in a simple form. Neural nets are capable of learning and adpating to its inputs and outputs. You could consider these changes evolution, if you wanted.

    There are many interesting and potentially scary things about neural nets. For example, it is commonly accepted that humans have "horizontal" and "vertical" line detection units in the brain. If I remember, this was done in a study where cats were shown horizontal or vertical lines and different parts of the brain were activated. Well, someone made a program, using a neural net, that classified horizontal and vertical lines. Guess what? It evolved these "detectors". It appeared as if certain parts of the network were devoted to identifying different types of lines, when in fact it had not been programmed this way.

    The only difference between the human brain and a computer running a neural net is the degree of parallelism and interconnectivity. The power of the brain comes from many small simple units doing something at the same time. If we are ever capable of developing this kind of machine, computers will have emotion. And I don't know what to think of that.

  8. #33
    Senior Member betastas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordanbcool View Post
    Even virus's follow basic principles. If they were unstoppable we probably wouldnt exist because they would kill us all off outright.

    Maybe we'll develop an advanced way to denature proteins surronding viruses causing them to basically die (if they are even alive) while saving the surronding organs or tissues.

    I'd reply more to yours and other posts later, I gotta go somewhere. Be back in an hour.

    Scary thing is. Antibiotics stop our defense systems from evolving enough to counteract the super-viruses we are making daily. I smell another plauge within our lifetime.
    Hopefully. Humanity blows.

  9. #34
    Senior Member betastas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSpikeyThing View Post
    The only difference between the human brain and a computer running a neural net is the degree of parallelism and interconnectivity. The power of the brain comes from many small simple units doing something at the same time. If we are ever capable of developing this kind of machine, computers will have emotion. And I don't know what to think of that.
    It's interesting that just because humanity can make something, it then proceeds to do it. Not everything needs to be made. I like some excitement though. See above.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordanbcool View Post
    Even virus's follow basic principles.
    That's the conundrum of life. Everything follows the basic principles of physics which, arguably, we understand. The complexity comes not from the rules, but from the size of the domain the rules are applied to.

    Ever seen the the game of life? The rules are simple. The game takes place on a grid. Each cell is marked as alive or dead. At each iteration, these rules are applied:
    If a cell is alive and:
    - has 0 or 1 neighbours (lving cells beside it), it dies from lonliness
    - has 4 or more neighbours, it dies from overpopulation
    - has 2 or 3 neighbours, it lives

    a dead cell with three neighbours comes back to life. (kind of kinky when you think about it )

    Those are the only rules. It becomes interesting because there is no known way to predict the pattern of cells that wil emerge without actually simulating it. And, as the size of the grid increases, the patterns produced become more and more complex.

  11. #36
    Is cutting down to 9% Jordanbcool's Avatar
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    I seriously do not understand what that game is trying to convey.......lol.

    I thank death every morning when I know that it will take me long before most of this garbage happens.

    Red- Do you really think we could map the brain the well to replicate it? I think we'll have done time travel before we'll map out the whole brain. Its constantly changing with each expirence and thought a person has.

    I would go so far as to say, it would be impossible.....i've heard/seen a few scientists make this remark already. But of course, we've done other "impossible" things....so I dunno.
    Last edited by Jordanbcool; 12-10-2006 at 05:05 PM.
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    "I'll tell you a secret. Something they don't teach you in your temple. The Gods envy us. They envy us because we're mortal, because any moment might be our last. Everything is more beautiful because we're doomed. You will never be lovelier than you are now. We will never be here again." - Achilles, (Troy 2004)
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  12. #37
    Senior Member betastas's Avatar
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    We wouldn't map the brain to make an effective artificial intelligence. In this case we can actually play "intelligent creator" and make the brain to specifications of our desire. It would be far simpler and cheaper. Plus if we put in some reproductive parameters it would be possible to develop a reproductive system where it can make more and more of itself. Awesome.

  13. #38
    Is cutting down to 9% Jordanbcool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by betastas View Post
    We wouldn't map the brain to make an effective artificial intelligence. In this case we can actually play "intelligent creator" and make the brain to specifications of our desire. It would be far simpler and cheaper. Plus if we put in some reproductive parameters it would be possible to develop a reproductive system where it can make more and more of itself. Awesome.
    Once I got into a huge discussion with my biology teacher about genetic mutations and artifical selection. Soon we'll understand more about genetic makeup and gene expression...

    One day, maybe I can melt things like cyclops can....with muh eyebalz
    Getting back in the groove
    "I'll tell you a secret. Something they don't teach you in your temple. The Gods envy us. They envy us because we're mortal, because any moment might be our last. Everything is more beautiful because we're doomed. You will never be lovelier than you are now. We will never be here again." - Achilles, (Troy 2004)
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  14. #39
    monster in training DarrenEff's Avatar
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    +1 vote for us turning into a single AA battery...



    (matrix roolz!)
    Last edited by DarrenEff; 12-10-2006 at 07:16 PM.

  15. #40
    Is cutting down to 9% Jordanbcool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrenEff View Post
    +1 vote for us turning into a single AA battery...



    (matrix roolz!)
    That would suck sooo much. They liquify the dead to feed the living!
    Getting back in the groove
    "I'll tell you a secret. Something they don't teach you in your temple. The Gods envy us. They envy us because we're mortal, because any moment might be our last. Everything is more beautiful because we're doomed. You will never be lovelier than you are now. We will never be here again." - Achilles, (Troy 2004)
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  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordanbcool View Post
    I seriously do not understand what that game is trying to convey.......lol.
    The game is trying to drive home the point that simple rules + big system = complex behaviour. This is much like our own universe in that the laws of physics are (relatively) straight forward, but it is the size of the domain (number of atoms in the universe) that make the results interesting. This is analogous to the human brain in that it is not the neurons themselves that are complicated, it is the fact that there are 100 billion of them.

    Red- Do you really think we could map the brain the well to replicate it? I think we'll have done time travel before we'll map out the whole brain. Its constantly changing with each expirence and thought a person has.
    I don't think it would be so much mapping out a human brain as (digitally) evolving one. If we ever had the computing power to do 100 billion calculations in parallel then, in theory, we could give the machine some form of input and output and basically tell it to go nuts. Eventually it would figure out what to do.

    Also, time travel is a whole other can of worms. I say that time travel is not possible because of this one simple question: If time travel will be possible some time in the future, wouldn't the people from the future have come to visit us?

  17. #42
    Senior Member betastas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSpikeyThing;
    If time travel will be possible some time in the future, wouldn't the people from the future have come to visit us?
    They have. But then someone else came back to stop them, thereby changing the reality back again. It's a cyclical pattern.

    As Dogbert put it, the purpose of life is to be an "organic pain collector speeding towards certain oblivion".

    yay Dogbert!

  18. #43
    Is cutting down to 9% Jordanbcool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSpikeyThing View Post
    Also, time travel is a whole other can of worms. I say that time travel is not possible because of this one simple question: If time travel will be possible some time in the future, wouldn't the people from the future have come to visit us?
    Although I agree with you, your explination is grossly oversimplified. People can go back in time and still never come in contact with another human being.

    I'd like to think humans would be smart and travel back to earlier times, like when the earth was first forming. This way we could enhance our knowledge by a much greater degree.

    Plus there are many complex theories debating the mathmatical complexities of time travel. Most of it only makes sense to einstein or stephen hawkings (sorry if I spelled either wrong).

    Most experts agree that it would only be possible if we could somehow manipulate worm wholes and space time travel.

    Other then that, the farthest someone has ever been forward in time is .022 seconds or something like that. It was an astronaut orbirting the earth.
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    "I'll tell you a secret. Something they don't teach you in your temple. The Gods envy us. They envy us because we're mortal, because any moment might be our last. Everything is more beautiful because we're doomed. You will never be lovelier than you are now. We will never be here again." - Achilles, (Troy 2004)
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  19. #44
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    lets all jump off of a bridge, hows that for BIOLOGY AND HUMANITY PURPOSES!!

    just kidding

    to complicated for me to think about it, we are here and will be here for a LONG time.
    2000 or bust

  20. #45
    Is cutting down to 9% Jordanbcool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumprrp View Post
    lets all jump off of a bridge, hows that for BIOLOGY AND HUMANITY PURPOSES!!

    just kidding

    to complicated for me to think about it, we are here and will be here for a LONG time.
    Unless you have a heart attack from completing too many squats
    Getting back in the groove
    "I'll tell you a secret. Something they don't teach you in your temple. The Gods envy us. They envy us because we're mortal, because any moment might be our last. Everything is more beautiful because we're doomed. You will never be lovelier than you are now. We will never be here again." - Achilles, (Troy 2004)
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  21. #46
    Senior Member hardgainer169's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordanbcool View Post
    Although I agree with you, your explination is grossly oversimplified. People can go back in time and still never come in contact with another human being.

    I'd like to think humans would be smart and travel back to earlier times, like when the earth was first forming. This way we could enhance our knowledge by a much greater degree.

    Plus there are many complex theories debating the mathmatical complexities of time travel. Most of it only makes sense to einstein or stephen hawkings (sorry if I spelled either wrong).

    Most experts agree that it would only be possible if we could somehow manipulate worm wholes and space time travel.

    Other then that, the farthest someone has ever been forward in time is .022 seconds or something like that. It was an astronaut orbirting the earth.

    The concept of time travel is pretty fascinating, and its implications are way beyond me. Ever read Madeline L'Engel?
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  22. #47
    Senior Member diesel_dan's Avatar
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    Has anyone ever wondered what life would be without emotions?
    Last edited by diesel_dan; 12-10-2006 at 08:52 PM.
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  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by diesel_dan View Post
    Has anyone ever wondered what life would be without emotions?
    Well, emotions, no matter what, sculpt us in every way we are right now. It's emotions that drive humans do indulge or act in particular ways. It's difficult to imagine a life without emotion, but if you look at our robots that are developed in today's world we could have an idea of what it's like. But we still wouldn't know because we have never lived without them.
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  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordanbcool View Post
    Although I agree with you, your explination is grossly oversimplified. People can go back in time and still never come in contact with another human being.
    I have a hard time believing that. Suppose that time travel is invented sometime in the future. Then humanity has the time from when it is invented to the end of the human race to screw around with the past. Lets say it is invented 1 million years from now. For simplicity, lets say humanity ends when the sun explodes. They then have 4.99 billion years to **** with the past. I'm pretty sure someone would get their hands on that bad boy and kill their grandpa, just to see what happens.

    I'd like to think humans would be smart and travel back to earlier times, like when the earth was first forming. This way we could enhance our knowledge by a much greater degree.
    I'd like to think that too
    Plus there are many complex theories debating the mathmatical complexities of time travel. Most of it only makes sense to einstein or stephen hawkings (sorry if I spelled either wrong).
    Yeah that stuff is way over my head. My knowledge of physics ends at grade 12 and anything I've learned about time travel was probably grossly oversimplified. Th eonly thing that really stuck in my mind was the double slit experiment and the ramifications of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sharkall2003 View Post
    It's difficult to imagine a life without emotion, but if you look at our robots that are developed in today's world we could have an idea of what it's like.
    That's not quite a fair statement. Humans are concious and aware that we have emotions, while robots are not concious and thus are unaware of the concept of emotion. The more interesting (read: mind-****ing) case arises when you have a concious being who is aware that they don't feel emotion. I believe that is also the definition of a psychopath.

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