Results 1 to 21 of 21

Thread: Help! Is My Routine Gonna Help Me Gain Size and Strength???

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    PaddleSkiBikeClimbHikeLift Hunt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    On the trail...
    Posts
    230

    Help! Is My Routine Gonna Help Me Gain Size and Strength???

    I am coming back from a sports-related shoulder injury and would really like to make some major gains in size and strength. I have designed a program for myself (with the following elements) and would like to get some feedback on what I might change/add/remove to make it better:

    1) 3-5 Sets per exercise / 6-10 reps per set / increase weight each set

    2) 4 Day split routine as day 1 = chest and triceps, day 2 = legs and biceps, day 3 = back and shoulders, day 4= REST

    I have gone through two cycles of this and results from the last cycle were:

    Day 1----
    Flat Bench Press 10x85,10x95,10x105,6x115,5x115
    Incline Bench Press 10x75,10x75,8x85,6x85,5x85
    Decline Bench Press 10x90,8x100,8x100,6x110,6x110
    Flat Bench Flys 10x30,10x30,8x40,6x40,6x40
    Machine Flys 10x50,9x70,8x70,7x80,6x80
    Close Grip Bench Press 10x45,10x55,8x55,7x55,6x55
    Skull Crushers 10x35,10x45,8x45,6x45,5x45
    Dips Press Machine 10x44,10x44,10x55,8x55,8x66

    Day 2----
    Squats 10x95,10x105,10x115,10x125,6x135
    Leg Presses 10x90,10x180,10x180,10x180,7x200
    Leg Extensions (Naut.) 10x70,10x80,10x90,10x100,8x110
    Leg Curls (Pannatta) 10x55,10x66,6x77,6x77,6x77
    Ham Flexor 10x40,10x40,10x40,6x50,6x50
    Standing Calf Raises 10x100,10x140,10x180,10x220,10x260
    Seated Calf Raises 10x45,10x95,10x135,10x145,10x150
    Standing Straight Bar Curls 10x35,10x35,10x35,10x45,7x45
    BB Preacher Curls 10x25,10x45,10x50,8x60,7x60
    Cross-Body Hammer Curls 10x15,8x15,8x15,6x20,6x20
    BB Wrist Curls 10x25,10x25,10x35,10x45,10x45
    Reverse Wrist Curls 10x25,10x25,10x25,10x25,10x25

    Day 3-----
    Bent Over BB Rows 10x25,10x35,10x45,10x55,10x55
    T-Bar Rows 10x25,10x35,9x45,6x50,7x50
    Lateral Pulldowns 10x50,10x90,10x110,10x130,10x140
    DB One Arm Rows 10x20,10x25,10x25,7x30,7x30
    Shrugs 10x55,10x65,10x75,10x85,9x95
    Military Press 12x40,10x50,10x60,9x80,7x90
    Upright Rows 7x25,10x30,10x30,10x30,5x40
    Front DB Raises 10x20,10x24,6x30,6x30,5x30
    Lateral DB Raises 10x20,10x20,10x20,9x20,7x24
    Reverse DB Raises 10x30,9x50,7x50,7x50,6x50

    Thanks again for any suggestions you might have.

  2. #2
    Forsaken by Destiny jell999's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Beyond Your Depth of Perception
    Posts
    661
    How long does it take you in the gym each day!?!
    Thats like 3 hours of lifting each day!

    Ummm... you might want to cut back on the volume there...
    Try doing only 3 sets per exercise, for no more than 10 reps per set. Also, try cutting it back to only 2 exercises per muscle, keep the big lifts though (squats, bench, deads).

    Add deadlifts to your back day.

  3. #3
    Senior Member MonStar1023's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    2,460
    Hunt-
    Wow where do I start.. hehe first of all a 3 on, 1 off routine is not what I would recommend at all. Even for advanced trainees thats a very demanding split. I would recommend an every other day, or 2 on, 1 off type of split instead. Anyways.. lets take a look at what youre doing..

    Day 1----
    Flat Bench Press 10x85,10x95,10x105,6x115,5x115
    Incline Bench Press 10x75,10x75,8x85,6x85,5x85
    Decline Bench Press 10x90,8x100,8x100,6x110,6x110
    Flat Bench Flys 10x30,10x30,8x40,6x40,6x40
    Machine Flys 10x50,9x70,8x70,7x80,6x80
    Close Grip Bench Press 10x45,10x55,8x55,7x55,6x55
    Skull Crushers 10x35,10x45,8x45,6x45,5x45
    Dips Press Machine 10x44,10x44,10x55,8x55,8x66


    Wow this is EXTREMELY excessive. 3 presses and 2 fly movements for your pecs is ridiculous. Looks like one of Arnold's old routines or something. I would drop a few exercises and lower the sets drastically. 2 presses and a 1 fly movement sounds okay. 1-3 worksets per exercise. For example flat BB press, incline BB or dips, and flat flyes. Your tricep routine is always extremely excessive. I would keep the CG bench and just do 2 worksets to failure, and then do 2 worksets of skulls.

    Day 2----
    Squats 10x95,10x105,10x115,10x125,6x135
    Leg Presses 10x90,10x180,10x180,10x180,7x200
    Leg Extensions (Naut.) 10x70,10x80,10x90,10x100,8x110
    Leg Curls (Pannatta) 10x55,10x66,6x77,6x77,6x77
    Ham Flexor 10x40,10x40,10x40,6x50,6x50
    Standing Calf Raises 10x100,10x140,10x180,10x220,10x260
    Seated Calf Raises 10x45,10x95,10x135,10x145,10x150
    Standing Straight Bar Curls 10x35,10x35,10x35,10x45,7x45
    BB Preacher Curls 10x25,10x45,10x50,8x60,7x60
    Cross-Body Hammer Curls 10x15,8x15,8x15,6x20,6x20
    BB Wrist Curls 10x25,10x25,10x35,10x45,10x45
    Reverse Wrist Curls 10x25,10x25,10x25,10x25,10x25


    Damn what the hell... leg routine is excessive. Maybe stick to squats, leg ext. and leg curls. 1-3 work sets each. I would do 1-2 sets per calf exercise. God knows why your training your biceps with legs. But anyways.. if you insist, I would drop the volume on them too. Barbell curls and hammer curls are all you need. I am forearm OBSESSED and your forearm routine is excessive. 1-2 worksets per exercise will be fine for your lower arms.

    Day 3-----
    Bent Over BB Rows 10x25,10x35,10x45,10x55,10x55
    T-Bar Rows 10x25,10x35,9x45,6x50,7x50
    Lateral Pulldowns 10x50,10x90,10x110,10x130,10x140
    DB One Arm Rows 10x20,10x25,10x25,7x30,7x30
    Shrugs 10x55,10x65,10x75,10x85,9x95
    Military Press 12x40,10x50,10x60,9x80,7x90
    Upright Rows 7x25,10x30,10x30,10x30,5x40
    Front DB Raises 10x20,10x24,6x30,6x30,5x30
    Lateral DB Raises 10x20,10x20,10x20,9x20,7x24
    Reverse DB Raises 10x30,9x50,7x50,7x50,6x50


    Okay again back & shoulders is a good combo dont get me wrong. But your OVER doing it! Back I would suggest chins, t-bar rows, and maybe deadlifts or something along those lines. 1-3 worksets. I would do my shrugs AFTER my shoulder workout because traps are a major stabilizer muscle in all of your overhead presses. I would suggest behind-neck presses and maybe side-laterals. Your doing about 10 different shoulder exercises. Your shoulders WILL NOT grow if you hit them with chest and then 2 days later hammer them directly. Neither will your biceps if you train them directly the day before back.



    Good luck!.. maybe try a split like this.

    Mon- LEGS
    Wed- PULL
    Fri- PUSH


  4. #4
    Senior Member MonStar1023's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    2,460
    Good advice jell999.


  5. #5
    PaddleSkiBikeClimbHikeLift Hunt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    On the trail...
    Posts
    230

    Thanks MonStar and Jell

    Thanks alot for both of your replies - I am a relative novice (I know how to do the exercises and I work very hard on good form and slow, controlled movement); however, I am pretty damn aggressive and thought after two cycles of that workout that I might be doing too much. Your criticisms are great and just what I was looking for.

    One question to MonStar (if you read this again): you talk about not working biceps with legs - should I keep chest+triceps, back+shoulders and then add bis somewhere in there???

    Thanks again.

  6. #6
    Senior Member MonStar1023's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    2,460
    Hunt-
    How you doing bro? Yeah no problem I hope your routine, whichever way you decide to go with it, works great for you. Anyway... I would maybe try adding biceps in on chest day.. okay maybe something like this..

    day 1- chest, biceps, triceps (this way your tris are given a little rest after chest)
    day 2- rest
    day 3- legs, calves, (maybe abs)
    day 4- rest
    day 5- back, shoulders, traps
    day 6- rest
    day 7- rest / start over with day 1



    Good luck! And lower that volume!
    Last edited by MonStar1023; 02-12-2002 at 08:19 PM.

  7. #7
    Forsaken by Destiny jell999's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Beyond Your Depth of Perception
    Posts
    661
    A common 4 day split is:
    Day 1 - Back/Bis
    Day 2 - Chest/Tris
    Day 3 - Legs
    Day 4 Shoulders/Traps

    If you want to keep the 3 day split, try:
    Day 1 - Back/Bis/Traps
    Day 2 - Chest/Tris/Shoulders
    Day 3 - Legs
    This is not as common, but it has worked for a few people I know.

  8. #8
    Senior Member MonStar1023's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    2,460
    jell999-
    Good suggestion.. also remember rest days are your friend! Theyll do more help then harm. I always recommend to undertrain rather than to overtrain. Overtraining creates all kinds of problems with your immune system etc.


  9. #9
    Forsaken by Destiny jell999's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Beyond Your Depth of Perception
    Posts
    661
    Good Post Monstar.

  10. #10
    Forsaken by Destiny jell999's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Beyond Your Depth of Perception
    Posts
    661
    I guess I could have put rest days in there, but I assumed that he would work that over a typical week. As long as you dont hit the same muscles more than once in a 6-7 day period, you'll be fine.

  11. #11
    Senior Member MonStar1023's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    2,460
    jell999-
    Yeah exactly. For example whatever split your doing bro I would suggest training them ONLY once per week. Your muscles will grow fine hitting them once every 6-7 days. Once you get to know your body youll realize if your body needs more or less rest. Be careful not to hit your tris too many times during the week though. Theyre hit hard with delts and chest..


  12. #12
    Senior Member TreeTrunks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Foot up TCD's ass
    Posts
    2,169
    Yeah you can gain lots of mass off that routine, btw how much juice you taking?

  13. #13
    PaddleSkiBikeClimbHikeLift Hunt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    On the trail...
    Posts
    230

    Awesome

    Jell and MonStar:

    Thanks again bros - awesome advice from both of you - I was wondering why after my leg day again today why I was having trouble walking. Hey - I made 1 set of 320 on Leg Press today though so I felt pretty damn good.

    I definitely will be dropping my set number down to 3 max and will be keeping my rep # at 10 or lower (is it best to try to get to failure or close on each set - raising the weight and lower the reps each set on a specific exercise?).

    Looks like I could cut out an exercise or two per muscle group and keep them in reserve to switch in and out to mix things up.

    As far as the spilt routine goes - is the three day difficult or just strange? The two day seems like it packs too much on one day (but maybe this is good to get compound movements together that release GH?? or does it lead too many muscles begging for protein and repair at the end of the day?). Is the four day a pretty common one for strength and size??

    A couple more questions to pick your brains bros - I dont really want to do the whole supplement routine (at least not yet) however, I am wondering whether I might do a protein shake thing (like Whey Protein Isolate). I typically eat a sandwich before lifting - then lift (for two hours!! not anymore) - and come home immediately and have a can of tuna and some milk and orange juice. Should I add a whey protein drink at the post-workout phase - or am I getting the protein that I need from my pre- and post- meals?

    Thanks again.

  14. #14
    PaddleSkiBikeClimbHikeLift Hunt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    On the trail...
    Posts
    230

    Another Q

    Forgot to add another question. I really like to run and have been running on every day but my leg days - usually do between 3 and 5 miles. Is this too much - is it gonna keep me from getting the size and strength in my upper body that I want??

    Thanks for your answers.

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    847
    These guys are giving you good advice. Your volume on the other one is unneccessarily high. It will work if your young and a beginner, but there's no need.

    Try this routine, and don't worry about reps. Should be anywhere from 4-12 per set, just think about intensity and slow movements. Do back first, that way on leg day your chest isn't sore while doing squats reaching back for the bar.

    Mon (Back, Bis):

    Warm up with 3 min cardio, then a few sets of light rear delt type rows, then do

    2-3 sets DUMBBELL ROWS
    2-3 sets PULL-UPS
    2-3 sets SHRUGS
    2-3 sets CURLS
    1 set HAMMER CURLS


    Wed (Legs)

    Warm up with 3 min cardio, then 2 light sets of squats, then do

    2-3 sets SQUATS (deep)
    2 sets HAMSTRING CURL or SLDL (better)
    3 sets CALVES (2 heavy, one for 25-50 reps)


    Fri (Chest, Shoulders, Tris)

    Warm up with 3 min cardio, then 2 light sets of dumbbell presses, then do.

    2 sets FLAT DUMBBELL PRESSES
    2 sets INCLINE DUMBBELL PRESSES
    2 sets SHOULDER PRESS
    1 set FRONT RAISES (or lateral, mix em up)
    2 sets TRICEPS PUSHDOWN
    1 set TRICEPS KICKBACK

    You of course can substitute some excersises for your fave's, but each workout should take about 45min. 30 if your fast, 1hr if your rest a lot.

  16. #16
    Forsaken by Destiny jell999's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Beyond Your Depth of Perception
    Posts
    661

    Re: Awesome

    Originally posted by Hunt
    I definitely will be dropping my set number down to 3 max and will be keeping my rep # at 10 or lower (is it best to try to get to failure or close on each set - raising the weight and lower the reps each set on a specific exercise?).
    Only go to failure on your last set. It should be:
    Set 1 - 8-10
    Set 2 - 8-10
    Set 3 - 4-6 to failure

    As far as the spilt routine goes - is the three day difficult or just strange? The two day seems like it packs too much on one day (but maybe this is good to get compound movements together that release GH?? or does it lead too many muscles begging for protein and repair at the end of the day?). Is the four day a pretty common one for strength and size??


    Personally, I like the 4 day. I use the one that I posted earlier. Some people can just fit the 3 day split into their schedule better. I find that I am rushed if I use the 3 day, and I spend too much time int eh gym per day.

    I am wondering whether I might do a protein shake thing (like Whey Protein Isolate). I typically eat a sandwich before lifting - then lift (for two hours!! not anymore) - and come home immediately and have a can of tuna and some milk and orange juice. Should I add a whey protein drink at the post-workout phase - or am I getting the protein that I need from my pre- and post- meals?
    If there is any one supplement you take, make it protien. Take it immediately after working out (or as soon as you get home). Pre and post workout meals are very important, make sure you dont skip them. You should be taking in 0.7-1.0 grams of protien per pound of body weight. I also recommend a good multi-vitamin. They are cheap, and you should be taking one anyway.

    Forgot to add another question. I really like to run and have been running on every day but my leg days - usually do between 3 and 5 miles. Is this too much - is it gonna keep me from getting the size and strength in my upper body that I want??


    If you are going for muscle mass, cut down the amount of cardio. Your body requires 10,000 calories to make one pound of muscle. If you burn all those calories, how can your body make muscle? If you want to do cardio, cut it down to one, or maybe 2 intense workouts a week, 20 minutes or less.

    Most people go through a bulking and cutting phase. Bulking, they eat more, and do significantly less cardio. On the cutting phase, they eat less total calories, keep the amount of protien, and increase the cardio. This ensures that you retain as much muscle mass as possible, while getting cut up, and looking good.


    Follow this, and I assure you, you will grow.
    Good luck.

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    847
    jell - I don't think it's 10,000. 3,500?

  18. #18
    PaddleSkiBikeClimbHikeLift Hunt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    On the trail...
    Posts
    230

    Resting - Short and Long?

    Marshall and Jell:

    Thanks for the further input on these things. Reminds me of another set of quick questions: what should be the length of the rest between sets and the rest between exercises?? I am currently using 30-60sec between sets and 1-2min between exercises (when not part of a superset group). Also, what is a SLDL? Is it OK to do my Squats as a Smith Press Squat with feet out far in front (while I dont have a bud or spotter)? What is the best way to do deadlifts (some guy was telling me at the gym today to avoid the stiff-leg because it can lead to a bent back and dropped shoulders - he was doing some sort of "romanian" deadlift??

    Thanks for the help again. This is really giving me a whole bunch of stuff to get my workout together.

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    847
    Hunt, I usually wait longer because of the intensity of my sets. 1.5-2 min between excersises about 3-5 between sets. SLDL is a stiff legged deadlift. Fine for your back (don't bend it though!), it will actually pull your shoulders back from working the back muscles. Benching can droop your shoulders though, from tightening. my $.02

    I think Smith squats suck for a variety of reasons. Just go light, deep and slow on squats, no need to go to all the way to failure, just get close. I never squat over 225lbs.

  20. #20
    PaddleSkiBikeClimbHikeLift Hunt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    On the trail...
    Posts
    230

    Sounds Good

    Sounds good Marshall thanks for the advice.

  21. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    847
    No prob, just remember, lot's of ways to skin a cat. My workout is pretty time efficient and it's allowed me to put on 25lbs of muscle over the past 9 months - naturally. That includes lots of travel, serious stress in my life, and being sick for the past 3 weeks, losing 13lbs. So, it has worked, at least for me. But when I say intensity, I mean intensity. And my diet, while not travelling, has been decent.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •