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Thread: String theory/M theory etc.

  1. #1
    Is cutting down to 9% Jordanbcool's Avatar
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    String theory/M theory etc.

    Can someone PLEASE explain a few of these theories (I guess string theory first off) in normal, human, layman's terms.

    I was watching a couple specials on the science channel last night about it and I got some basic concepts but 99% of it was over my head. I'm no idiot, but I'm no Stephen hawking's either.

    Anyways, the special was about alternate universes and different laws of physics and what not for each alternate dimensional universe. It also tried to explain how the big bang started....with two different dimensions collided and produced a ass load of matter/energy.

    Anyways, they went on to say that such things as ghosts and other paranormal activities could defiantly be a logical and realistic possibility within these dimensions. Now thats cool.....maybe one day I can join this dimension and scare the crap out of some mortal humans

    Also, apparently you cannot pinpoint an atoms exact location.....they think this is because they could be in many differnt places at one "time".
    Last edited by Jordanbcool; 01-03-2007 at 09:29 AM.
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    Is cutting down to 9% Jordanbcool's Avatar
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    Mang.

    I was hoping I wasn't the only meat head extremely interested in science
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    Senior Member Invain's Avatar
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    Did you try wiki yet?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_theory

    I've heard about it, but I rarely pay much attention to new far-fetched theories. I really don't know where scientists pull this crap from sometimes.
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    Is cutting down to 9% Jordanbcool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Invain View Post
    Did you try wiki yet?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_theory

    I've heard about it, but I rarely pay much attention to new far-fetched theories. I really don't know where scientists pull this crap from sometimes.
    I agree.

    In reality most of the theories are completely made up.....however, there are certain mathematical calculations that can somewhat explain part of these theories.

    Its still interesting though.
    Getting back in the groove
    "I'll tell you a secret. Something they don't teach you in your temple. The Gods envy us. They envy us because we're mortal, because any moment might be our last. Everything is more beautiful because we're doomed. You will never be lovelier than you are now. We will never be here again." - Achilles, (Troy 2004)
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    Is cutting down to 9% Jordanbcool's Avatar
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    haha.

    Even the scientists that came up with the theory arent even sure of its total meaning........
    Getting back in the groove
    "I'll tell you a secret. Something they don't teach you in your temple. The Gods envy us. They envy us because we're mortal, because any moment might be our last. Everything is more beautiful because we're doomed. You will never be lovelier than you are now. We will never be here again." - Achilles, (Troy 2004)
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  7. #7
    .::.:::...:.:..:::::.::.. : Thexile's Avatar
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    its stupid, a theory to describe everything w/e. i watched the special with that japanese guy from japan
    nemo me impune lacessit

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    Senior Member betastas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordanbcool View Post
    I agree.

    In reality most of the theories are completely made up.....however, there are certain mathematical calculations that can somewhat explain part of these theories.

    Its still interesting though.
    Completely made up? How about tentatively theorized based upon foundational laws of science and empirical observation and evidence?

    Theories are indeed theories. But they aren't completely made up with no logical foundations or support. The scientific method is part of it. A theory also has implications to other parts of science. Because they don't understand the theory entirely means there is missing information such as unaccounted variables and a lack of knowledge on the implications on other scientific theories. Granted that it may be false, but it is a step in the right direction towards finding out the true theory/theories.


    Want to learn more on String Theory, pick up some books by Brian Greene, Gould and Hawkings to start somewhere. It's like trying to explain advanced calculus to someone without rudimentary knowledge of math. That being said, my own knowledge on the subject matter isn't that great, and I will undertake some of those books in the future when I'm finished with my biology and evolutionary books.

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    Pick up Brian Greene's "The Elegant Universe" for starters. He has a knack for explaining things to the average person. Don't get me wrong, though, it'll still be a bit of a challenge to wrap your head around many of the concepts (like there being 11 dimensions), but if you're patient you'll learn a lot.

    String theory is the closest thing we have to a theory of everything at this point. Saying it's completely made up is just silly. People don't just pluck these ideas out of mid-air.

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    Is cutting down to 9% Jordanbcool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by betastas View Post
    Completely made up? How about tentatively theorized based upon foundational laws of science and empirical observation and evidence?

    Theories are indeed theories. But they aren't completely made up with no logical foundations or support. The scientific method is part of it. A theory also has implications to other parts of science. Because they don't understand the theory entirely means there is missing information such as unaccounted variables and a lack of knowledge on the implications on other scientific theories. Granted that it may be false, but it is a step in the right direction towards finding out the true theory/theories.


    Want to learn more on String Theory, pick up some books by Brian Greene, Gould and Hawkings to start somewhere. It's like trying to explain advanced calculus to someone without rudimentary knowledge of math. That being said, my own knowledge on the subject matter isn't that great, and I will undertake some of those books in the future when I'm finished with my biology and evolutionary books.
    You pretty much said what I was meaning.

    Even though its "made up" (which every theory is) they have certain mathematical calculations that can explain (somewhat) these radical theories....so yea I didn't mean that they pulled it out of their ass. But there are considerably large parts of it that are unknown.

    Anyways. String theory is so interesting to me because it may help to explain our very beginnings and thus the overall purpose of life or our civilization or universe. Living life just to live is an extremely unsatisfying answer.
    Last edited by Jordanbcool; 01-03-2007 at 01:26 PM.
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    "I'll tell you a secret. Something they don't teach you in your temple. The Gods envy us. They envy us because we're mortal, because any moment might be our last. Everything is more beautiful because we're doomed. You will never be lovelier than you are now. We will never be here again." - Achilles, (Troy 2004)
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    Superman sharkall2003's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordanbcool View Post
    Living life just to live is an extremely unsatisfying answer.
    Why? Is living life to appease a omniscient God any better? A God that may very well not exist?
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    Wannabebig Member TopQuark1028's Avatar
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    ohh string theory; It's one of the most hated things amongst physicists - I'll explain why it started and a little about it:


    As you may know there are 4 fundamental forces that dictate all known interactions in the universe. These are Gravity, Electromagnetism, the strong nuclear force, and the weak nuclear force.
    In physics we work hard to understand all these forces as best as possible and explain how they interact with each other and why there are 4 and not 1 or 98349024.

    Ok with that being said there are currently 2 "fundamental" theories in physics that explain each of their respective fields quite well, but both of these theories don't agree.

    These theories are:
    General Relativity - Which explains gravity.

    The standard model of particle physics (my specialty actually ) - Which explains the other 3 forces.

    The problem is that these 2 theories don't agree when you try to explain certain physical phenomena that require you to use both at the same time.

    This is where string theory comes in. String theory is a more "fundamental" theory that unites these 2 theories into a single "theory of everything".

    I'm simplifying alot of stuff and leaving out alot of the reasoning, but I'd be happy to fill you in if you ask some more specific questions hehe.

    1 other thing I should say is that there isn't 1 string theory like some people think. String theory is a whole branch of a whole bunch of different theories that use a similar idea.

    Of all the string theories, the one that is currently accepted amongst most particle physicists is called the Randell Sundrum model. This one, as well as alot of other string theories, will be either confirmed or ruled out in the next 5 years with the start up of the LHC (Large hadron collider at CERN in Switzerland)

    Feel free to ask me questions hehe.
    -Blake

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    Wannabebig Member TopQuark1028's Avatar
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    p.s. I'm a physics grad student and I work in experimental particle physics so I may be a bit bias haha
    -Blake

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    Wannabebig Member TopQuark1028's Avatar
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    Also, apparently you cannot pinpoint an atoms exact location.....they think this is because they could be in many differnt places at one "time".
    This is the uncertainty principle in quantum mechanics. You can pinpoint the location of an "atom" to infinite precision but if you do, you loose all information about it's momentum and velocity. but let me explain a little more closely.

    There are 3 uncertainty principles all having to do with either:
    energy and time
    angular momentum and angular displacement (how fast something is spinning)
    momentum and position

    all of these relations can be written down with a simple formula, namely
    dA*dB >= "h bar"/2

    which in english means:
    The change in A times the change in B is always greater than "h bar" (planck's constant = 6.23 x 10^-32 J*s if i remember correctly) divided by 2

    Where A is: either Energy, angular momentum, or momentum
    and B is: it's counter part: time, angular displacement, or position

    hope I didn't confuse you to much there hehe
    -Blake

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    Banned Tofer's Avatar
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    I saw you post in a thread a while ago, and figured you had to be a Physics geek with a name like TopQuark.

    That's pretty cool though, man. You must be involved in some pretty interesting work.

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    Is cutting down to 9% Jordanbcool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharkall2003 View Post
    Why? Is living life to appease a omniscient God any better? A God that may very well not exist?
    No. It could have something to do with god. I just don't find existing just because or just to exist a satisfying answer at all. Maybe I'm asking the wrong thing or simply trying to find something that isn't there.

    I think I'm more concerned with the subject of consciousness then god. Like, why am I allowed to waste my time thinking about all this junk?

    I'm still debating on whether or not I believe in a god. If there is life after we die or loss consciousness thought (within our bodies) I think we would be transformed into another "parallel" universe with which our "souls" or conscious minds would exist to think for all eternity........again since consciousness isn't a "living" thing but a state of mind. On the flip-side though, if there isn't a parallel universe where we end up in and things just happen to happen.......I don't find that terribly unsettling. I think I would grow quite bored with myself or experiences if I were allowed to have them without limit i.e. if I'm allowed to exist for eternity.

    My problem now is trying to figure out which part of me I agree with more. I think both explanations have merit but I don't know which one I agree with most. Again, the first one being- Things just happen because they do or that there is some underlying force or power that has influence in our realm that we aren't yet aware of.
    Last edited by Jordanbcool; 01-03-2007 at 03:06 PM.
    Getting back in the groove
    "I'll tell you a secret. Something they don't teach you in your temple. The Gods envy us. They envy us because we're mortal, because any moment might be our last. Everything is more beautiful because we're doomed. You will never be lovelier than you are now. We will never be here again." - Achilles, (Troy 2004)
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    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    Blake, what's your field?

    Took an interesting class on string theory at Duke my freshman year. Don't remember much of it, but always had an academic interest in theoretical physics of all sorts.
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    Is cutting down to 9% Jordanbcool's Avatar
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    I re-watched the show (thank you tivo). It seems that string theory/M theory etc. is an attempt to explain events in our universe that don't exactly work like they should. However, by adding parallel universes and what not, it sounds like its over-complicating things.......the show admits that we wouldn't be able to measure, see or study any of these "alternate universes".

    If there is no way of measuring or studying them at all then we can never disprove that they do or don't exist, which is again very unsatisfying. It just sounds like things are being made up to describe things that may not relate.

    I'm so glad bodybuilding isn't like this....lol.
    Getting back in the groove
    "I'll tell you a secret. Something they don't teach you in your temple. The Gods envy us. They envy us because we're mortal, because any moment might be our last. Everything is more beautiful because we're doomed. You will never be lovelier than you are now. We will never be here again." - Achilles, (Troy 2004)
    Stats
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    Bench- Two 100lbs DB's four times
    190lbs 15% BF (Estimate)

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    I think he said his field is in experimental particle physics.

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    Wannabebig Member TopQuark1028's Avatar
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    Freshman year course on string theory!? haha that sounds crazy it must of been like a popular science course because the math in string theory is extremely challenging.

    Ya I work in experimental particle physics (Fermi Lab d0 experiment to be exact hehe) , but I goto talks pretty often given by the theory groups to stay sharp on their latest stuff hehe
    -Blake

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    Superman sharkall2003's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordanbcool View Post
    No. It could have something to do with god. I just don't find existing just because or just to exist a satisfying answer at all. Maybe I'm asking the wrong thing or simply trying to find something that isn't there.

    I think I'm more concerned with the subject of consciousness then god. Like, why am I allowed to waste my time thinking about all this junk?

    I'm still debating on whether or not I believe in a god. If there is life after we die or loss consciousness thought (within our bodies) I think we would be transformed into another "parallel" universe with which our "souls" or conscious minds would exist to think for all eternity........again since consciousness isn't a "living" thing but a state of mind. On the flip-side though, if there isn't a parallel universe where we end up in and things just happen to happen.......I don't find that terribly unsettling. I think I would grow quite bored with myself or experiences if I were allowed to have them without limit i.e. if I'm allowed to exist for eternity.

    My problem now is trying to figure out which part of me I agree with more. I think both explanations have merit but I don't know which one I agree with most. Again, the first one being- Things just happen because they do or that there is some underlying force or power that has influence in our realm that we aren't yet aware of.
    Yes, I know what you are saying. Heaven to me is just knowing that my family will do well if I do the best I can. And that I will live in their memory. As of now, I am looking further into the existence of God.

    The String Theory seems interesting. I might have to give it a good read.
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  22. #22
    Is cutting down to 9% Jordanbcool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharkall2003 View Post
    Yes, I know what you are saying. Heaven to me is just knowing that my family will do well if I do the best I can. And that I will live in their memory. As of now, I am looking further into the existence of God.

    The String Theory seems interesting. I might have to give it a good read.
    The only real thing I liked about it was the scientific explanation of another dimension and therefore paving the way for a feasible explanation of God or atleast possibly making a transition and becoming a ghost.

    Just the thought of being able to maybe fly around the universe or something is really cool.

    Of course, since I'd be in another universe I could never communicate with anything outside that said universe. So, while I could surf around in my universe anyone I know now thats still alive, I wouldn't be able to contact (atleast all the time) or in a very effective way.

    I think I'm so concerned with finding out if god exists or not for my own rather selfish means.

    If my conscious mind (soul) is allowed to exist past this world for an indefinite time then no matter what I did it wouldn't be considered a waste. I could sleep for 80 years straight and never get out of my bed and it would never matter. Why? Because once I died I'd have eternity to do whatever I didn't get to do or I'd at least have some more time to do similar things.

    On the flip-side if when I die I just die, even something as monumental as becoming the first person in space or splitting apart the atom still isn't significant as our tiny world is but a spec in the far off reaches of space. Basically, that we are fairly worthless if you take the entire universe into account and no matter what we do that can't be changed. So we can split the atom. Is that going to matter when I'm dead? No.

    P.S. Shark, I'm not trying to convince you to believe in god or disbelieve in him....I don't think thats very appropriate as I have no more proof then you do. I have alot of respect for devout Christians; as I envy them...I wish I could have their strong of faith. But at the same time I don't want to believe in god because its comforting or because I was raised that way. I want to believe in god because thats what I think really exists. And since the world is so full of mis-information (like all fat makes you fat) I'm trying to search for facts that arent there. So its particularly frustrating for myself.
    Last edited by Jordanbcool; 01-03-2007 at 10:18 PM.
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    "I'll tell you a secret. Something they don't teach you in your temple. The Gods envy us. They envy us because we're mortal, because any moment might be our last. Everything is more beautiful because we're doomed. You will never be lovelier than you are now. We will never be here again." - Achilles, (Troy 2004)
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  23. #23
    Back in business WBBIRL's Avatar
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    I do like physics but I won't pretend to understand String Theory.

    I was to understand that the two great theory's were the theory of relativity and quantum mechanics.

    I've just finished reading A Brief History of Time and I'm working through On the Shoulders of Giants. The first book was a lot easier to read then the second, the second goes into depth in some areas which confuses me a good bit and I wind up spending probably 20 min or so researching online and what not to understand some of the concepts. Needless to say I've been reading for about a week or so and am less then halfway through the book =/

    I found this pretty neat

    http://www.tenthdimension.com/medialinks.php

  24. #24
    Is cutting down to 9% Jordanbcool's Avatar
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    Getting back in the groove
    "I'll tell you a secret. Something they don't teach you in your temple. The Gods envy us. They envy us because we're mortal, because any moment might be our last. Everything is more beautiful because we're doomed. You will never be lovelier than you are now. We will never be here again." - Achilles, (Troy 2004)
    Stats
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    Deadlift- 415
    Bench- Two 100lbs DB's four times
    190lbs 15% BF (Estimate)

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    Superman sharkall2003's Avatar
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    I used to be a devout Catholic, and I still am, but after reading into many of the other theories, and talking with Catholic school Alumni I have found that they were very sheltered in their education received. They learned about God and no other theory that could conflict with that. I tried talking with the girlfriend about the Big Bang Theory and the possibility of no God. She was appalled and had not a clue of what I was talking about. I'm going to explore more because I have a hard time "believing" my life is controlled by a God. No one controls me. I control myself. I'm not a puppet and I don't have to bow down to anyone. That being said, my belief system on abortion, capital punishment and other things like not telling the truth, stealing, and cheating are all the same.

    Right now I am going to read as much material on the Big Bang theory and the origins of the universe as possible. If some could recommend some beginner books to start with that would be appreciated. I can't be sheltered from other things in life. I need to look at other sources to be sure that what I believe is the truth.
    Last edited by sharkall2003; 01-04-2007 at 07:30 AM.
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