The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    ... weightlifting forever leetuck's Avatar
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    I've been told 12 sets is overtraining, need advice

    I've probably spent about 10 hours on these forums in the last couple of days looking at training tips etc. All very good information. I've tried to help out a bit too (only when I sort of knew what I was on about).

    I've finally sorted my diet out and I'm eating about 2500 - 3000 cals a day, and try and eat about 200g of protein. I used to eat about 1500 cals a day and wondered why I wasn't progressing.

    Basically, I have always performed about 12 sets per muscles group and I've been told this is overtraining big time.

    For example: My chest exercises are typically, 3 x Flat bench (BB), 3 x Dec Bench(DB), 3 x Incline (DB) and 3 x flys.

    I generally aim for 10 reps, 8 reps then 6 reps as the sets progress although I will mix it up and sometimes and just do heavy sets.

    Most people say this is too much but seem to be talking about training for power and say the 5x5 routine is brill. At the moment I wanna train for a bit of size, yes I do want to get stronger but that's not important at the moment.

    So what I am asking is, in order to gain a bit of size, should I train the way I am now or is it still overtraining for my goal. I now train each muscle group twice a week. I could get rid of the incline bench as the upper chest will prob be trained while doing shoulders.


    One things I'd like to say is I seem to have very good stamina. After each set I am hammered but after about 2 mins I'm fine to hammer out another set. My energy doesn't seem do depleat.
    Many thanks.
    Last edited by leetuck; 01-09-2007 at 03:51 PM.
    Lee

    Height: 6ft 4
    Current weight: 226 lbs

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  3. #2
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    here is a question for you. Have you been gaining size and strength training like this? There is no reason to change something if it is working for you. If you have stopped gaining, maybe you should consider changing your routine. Have you looked into wbb1, yet?

  4. #3
    ... weightlifting forever leetuck's Avatar
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    Thanks for the reply ...

    This is where I get slapped around the face.

    I've been training about 2 years but since day one I have been dieting to lose fat and although I'm quite slim I didn't do it the correct way.

    For example: My typical daily calorie intake would be 3 bowls of cereal and 1 protein shake. Thats it! However, in my defence, I didn't start training to get bigger originally, I just wanted to get a bit stronger and be very light so football(soccer) would be easier. However, now I want to get a little bigger as I'm 6ft 3 and 14st 4 (ish)... too light.

    I have made a lot of gains in strength the first year (like everyone else) but since then only a little bit but not much in the way of size. I simply couldn't get any bigger eating the crap I was.

    Anyway to cut a long story short, I've started eating properly as from last week so time will tell if this routine will work. It's the same routine as before just a much better diet.

    I just wanted to make clarify is people still thought I was overtraining for my goal still.
    Last edited by leetuck; 01-09-2007 at 04:10 PM.
    Lee

    Height: 6ft 4
    Current weight: 226 lbs

  5. #4
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    Once again, why don't you try following wbb1 program?

  6. #5
    is taking names. Can'tstopnow's Avatar
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    I love the 5x5, pick a weight you can do for all 5 sets and go until you progress up. Add 5-10lbs and repeat. I normally do 2-3 excercises for each group. I will get 24,25reps for big3(bench/squat/dead) movenents and 22-25 reps for assistance excercises. If you can recover quick enough to train each group 2x week and gain then do it. Listen to your body, if you are tired then rest. Best of luck.
    Change is the constant, the signal for rebirth, the egg of the phoenix.

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  7. #6
    ... weightlifting forever leetuck's Avatar
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    The only reason I wouldn't like to try a new plan at the moment is because I don't want to change too many variables. I've changed my diet first... will see how that goes first.

    My routine is a little similar to wbb1 though...
    Chest/Back one session. Shoulders/Arms another and legs once a week (but just started doing legs)

    I don't rely on a 7 day pattern either as I work out in the spare bedroom and garage. I basically "Train 1 day , rest 1 day".

    For example:
    Day1 - Chest/Back
    Day2 - Rest
    Day 3 - Shoulders/Arms
    Day 4 - Rest

    Then the cycle starts again. I fit leg work around when I play football (soccer) which changes each week.
    Last edited by leetuck; 01-09-2007 at 04:30 PM.
    Lee

    Height: 6ft 4
    Current weight: 226 lbs

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by leetuck View Post
    Day1 - Chest/Back
    So you are doing 12 sets for your chest and 12 sets for your back in one workout?

  9. #8
    Senior Member RichMcGuire's Avatar
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    Initially, just about anyone will gain strength on any program. This is largely due to muscle memory. Youre taller and doing a lot of work. 2500-3500 calories may actually be not enough calories. Youre also getting just one growth cycle in with your program. I would prefer a 3x a week program with simple compound movements. Theres no reason to do flats, inclines, declines, and flies in one workout.
    First Bulk pics VS Starting pics, take a look!! http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...=1#post1616109

    Progress pics of a cut using bodyweight only movements http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...45#post2405745

    Generally, if you read a piece of advice on the internet, assume it's wrong until proven otherwise. This applies especially to "conventional wisdom". -Belial

  10. #9
    Eat Chicken Chris686's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMcGuire View Post
    Initially, just about anyone will gain strength on any program. This is largely due to muscle memory. Youre taller and doing a lot of work. 2500-3500 calories may actually be not enough calories. Youre also getting just one growth cycle in with your program. I would prefer a 3x a week program with simple compound movements. Theres no reason to do flats, inclines, declines, and flies in one workout.
    I agree.
    Flies feel pretty worthless to me.
    Stick to something like flat/incline, flat/decline, or maybe even incline/decline.
    That's it.
    Forever Goal: Strength

    Weightlifting sucks. I just like to lift heavy things.

  11. #10
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    2,500 - 3,000 isn't going to cut it. Edit: try increasing that a bit. I didn't see results until I hit 4,000+.

    Dive in the deep end - try a 5 x 5 approach AND eat more. You've dallied in your current routine long enough. Time to change it up.

    Your current situation, as I see it - you've got a little V6 that you're looking to soup up a bit. Some of us are recommending that you pull that V6 and drop in a V8. Give the V8 enough gas, and you'll start seeing results.

    That's it. I'm here all week folks!

    Seriously though, if you're going to do this right, then do it right. What you have been doing isn't working, so try something else. I can understand trying to change only one variable at a time, but at some point, you've got to abondon the hypothesis and go in a new direction. I think that time is now.
    Last edited by jkirkpatrick; 01-09-2007 at 09:11 PM.

  12. #11
    Senior Member Levantar's Avatar
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    Your question was:

    "So what I am asking is, in order to gain a bit of size, should I train the way I am now or is it still overtraining for my goal."

    People have suggested the 5 x 5 routine. You sound like you don't want to try that. Maybe you should look into the HST routine (Hypertrophy specific training)?

  13. #12
    Senior Member BFGUITAR's Avatar
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    Wheres your leg training?
    Theyre extremely important.

  14. #13
    Bodybuilding Mythbuster
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    Quote Originally Posted by BFGUITAR View Post
    Wheres your leg training?
    Theyre extremely important.
    Read the last sentence of his post again.

  15. #14
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    Your shoulders and tris are being hit for about 100 reps every 2 days.

  16. #15
    ... weightlifting forever leetuck's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies guys ...

    Will def drop the number of sets then. On chest and back day it can sometimes take about 2 hours to complete including warmup etc BUT I don't generally train them in the same session. I would normally do chest in the morning and back in the evening. I work and train from home so I can do this.

    I'm looking into the 5x5 routine aswell. I know I should really be eating about 4000 calories but I find this really hard to do. Eatin about 2800 is difficult enough for me and feel full all the time! I'm used to eating the minimum.

    OK ... I will try and eat about 3500 cals (gonna be hard) and look into changing to the 5x5. Then all I need to do is see how it goes.

    One thing I will say is that over the last weeks I've trained 3 times and eat between 2500 and 3000 yet still lost 1lb in weight. So I guess if I hit 3500 cals daily, that should be enough to gain some size. I'm not interested in gaining size fast as I play football (soccer) and don't wanna struggle cos of the extra weight.

    Thanks for your help. Most people ask for advice and then don't take it when given. I will do my best and see how things go for a month or so.

    Anyone have any idea of the type of gains both in strength and weight I would make during this time? (Assuming: I'm eating about 3500 cals and doing 5x5 routine)
    Last edited by leetuck; 01-10-2007 at 04:51 AM.
    Lee

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    Current weight: 226 lbs

  17. #16
    ... weightlifting forever leetuck's Avatar
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    Oh yeh.. on the subject of fly's being worthless, I only do these to stretch the chest muscles and hopefully work the outer a bit.

    My innner chest is very defined but I don't have that full look. My outer chest is non existant but it's always been like that. Maybe it's just the way I am.

    I've been told to do fly's and wide grip BB presses. I'd like to do dips but don't have the equipment for that!

    Any other ideas on exercises that target the outer chest? I'm guessing it's just a case of "get a bigger chest" and that will sort it.

    Thanks
    Lee

    Height: 6ft 4
    Current weight: 226 lbs

  18. #17
    Banned bjohnso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leetuck View Post
    Oh yeh.. on the subject of fly's being worthless, I only do these to stretch the chest muscles and hopefully work the outer a bit.

    My innner chest is very defined but I don't have that full look. My outer chest is non existant but it's always been like that. Maybe it's just the way I am.

    I've been told to do fly's and wide grip BB presses. I'd like to do dips but don't have the equipment for that!

    Any other ideas on exercises that target the outer chest? I'm guessing it's just a case of "get a bigger chest" and that will sort it.

    Thanks
    You can't target a specific part of a muscle for growth. You work a muscle as a whole, and it grows as a whole. The shape of a muscle is genetically predetermined and is beyond your control.

  19. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by leetuck View Post
    Thanks for the replies guys ...

    Anyone have any idea of the type of gains both in strength and weight I would make during this time? (Assuming: I'm eating about 3500 cals and doing 5x5 routine)
    Hard to say. Everybody will resond differently. Give it a shot...I'm sure you will see strength gains. I know I did.

    And if you are not lactose intollerant and you're having a hard time consuming that many calories, milk is an easy source of calories.

  20. #19
    ... weightlifting forever leetuck's Avatar
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    bjohnso - I thought as much... I will just eat and train and see how things go. If the muscles gets bigger the outer will have to grow too!

    jkirkpatrick - I love milk and put plent in my protein shake to bump up the protein and add some carbs. I also have about 4 eggs a day generally, not too fussed about cholesterol at the mo. There's no one in the family with a cholesterol problem .. so i should be ok for the mean time. I hate tuna but decided I need to eat it so I've started mixing it in with my Macaroni Cheese Pasta too ... its quite nice!

    If ya interested, take a look at what I'm eating now. Do you think this is sufficient to gain muscle. At one point I lost weight eating this at the start but now i think I've put 1lb on in the week i've been eating like this. I used to eat about 1500 cals previously (saw no gains, surprise surprise).


    My Diet
    Last edited by leetuck; 01-10-2007 at 04:34 PM.
    Lee

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    Current weight: 226 lbs

  21. #20
    Banned bjohnso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leetuck View Post
    bjohnso - I thought as much... I will just eat and train and see how things go. If the muscles gets bigger the outer will have to grow too!
    Yep, that's the idea!

  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by leetuck View Post
    jkirkpatrick - I love milk and put plent in my protein shake to bump up the protein and add some carbs.
    I checked out your fitday. Looks like for this past week, you're about 12 litres of milk shy.

    When I was trying to add weight, I drank about 12-16 litres of 2% milk per week for a year. Then I cut it back to skim. Now I drink about 8-12 litres of skim milk per week.

    It worked for me. I used to be a bean pole. Now I'm not. Lots of factors contributed to that, but milk was an important ingredient.

    Good luck!

  23. #22
    Eat Chicken Chris686's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkirkpatrick View Post
    .
    Dive in the deep end - try a 5 x 5 approach AND eat more. You've dallied in your current routine long enough. Time to change it up.
    lol... Dallied.
    Forever Goal: Strength

    Weightlifting sucks. I just like to lift heavy things.

  24. #23
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  25. #24
    ... weightlifting forever leetuck's Avatar
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    12 litres!!

    Will take more now.
    Thanks
    Lee

    Height: 6ft 4
    Current weight: 226 lbs

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