The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

It’s no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Banned must_eat's Avatar
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    Creatine and half squats...

    hi guys, well i have a few questions real quick. ok the first one is my brother left some creatine on the refrigerator and i was wondering if i started to take that would i get bigger?

    because i heard with creatine that you have to continue to take it or else you will get smaller.

    ok my second question is squats, when i do my squats i do ATF, but i was wondering about just doing half squats, not going all the way down instead for a little bit? i think i can do more weight that way, dont you think?

    anyways thanks guys and dont mind the punctuation and spelling cuz its early in the morning and im tired.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member teenathlete3030's Avatar
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    As far as creatine I can't help you, because all I take is whey protein. I was told to steer clear as an athlete.

    As far as squats, keep doing them ATF. Yes, you won't be able to do as much weight, but who cares? You'll be getting a much better workout. It's actually a lot more stressful for the knees to only go 1/2 way. When you go ATF, the weight is transfered into the hips, and your quads, glutes, and hamstrings all get worked. You'll be incorporating more muscle groups, and get bigger. Just remember to eat. With a few months of doing ATF squats, you'll be doing 1.5X bodyweight easy.
    6'0" 180
    Vertical 29" Running= 37" 40= 4.70
    Big 3: Squat= 320
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  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by teenathlete3030 View Post
    I was told to steer clear as an athlete.
    Why is that? Many athletes use creatine. You just have to ensure you drink enough water.

    OP: Do full squats, they'll make you functionally stronger and they are easier on your knees. A good resource for creatine is www.creatinemonohydrate.net . That and searching this site should give you all the info you need about creatine.

  5. #4
    The Man of Steel -Superman-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teenathlete3030 View Post
    As far as creatine I can't help you, because all I take is whey protein. I was told to steer clear as an athlete.

    As far as squats, keep doing them ATF. Yes, you won't be able to do as much weight, but who cares? You'll be getting a much better workout. It's actually a lot more stressful for the knees to only go 1/2 way. When you go ATF, the weight is transfered into the hips, and your quads, glutes, and hamstrings all get worked. You'll be incorporating more muscle groups, and get bigger. Just remember to eat. With a few months of doing ATF squats, you'll be doing 1.5X bodyweight easy.
    I hope you are right about that. I have been doing squats for 6 months and have just now reached my bodyweight. I need to increase by almost 100 lbs to get to 1.5X bodyweight.

    From 155 lbs to 200 lbs (PICS/VIDS INCLUDED)

    Height: 6'0"; BW: 202lbs; Age: 24; BF: ~11%
    155lbs [07-01-06] 176lbs [09-14-06] 179lbs [09-21-06] 182lbs [10-02-06] 184lbs [10-18-06] 186lbs [10-23-06] 187lbs [11-08-06] 189lbs [11-19-06] 190lbs [11-21-06] 191lbs [12-21-06] 194lbs [12-31-06]

    Bench: 250lbs; Squat: 350lbs lbs; Deadlift: 430 lbs

    Military: 111lbsx8; Dips: BWx30; Pullups: BWx10; WChestP: 360lbsx7; 45LegP: 470lbsx20; C Raise: 360lbs; BB Curl: 105lbsx3; Lat Pull: 195lbsx5

  6. #5
    ANVIL POWER Detard's Avatar
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    of course you'll be able to do more weight with half squats. it doesnt mean that its better though. that would be like benching and only going half the distance to your chest. stick with atf, or at least parallel.
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  7. #6
    Team Chesticles! Unholy's Avatar
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    Maybe you should half bench and do more weight there as well? Maybe do half range of motion on all exercises and just up the weight.
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  8. #7
    DeaTH BeFoRe WeaKNeSs sCaRz*Of*PaiN's Avatar
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    Never do parallel squats. They are very bad for your knees. ATF squats are a great knee strengthening exercise when done with proper form. Keep doing full range of motion squats. That's how the body was meant to do them.
    "The only easy day was yesterday."

  9. #8
    Senior Member stepto180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sCaRz*Of*PaiN View Post
    Never do parallel squats. They are very bad for your knees. ATF squats are a great knee strengthening exercise when done with proper form. Keep doing full range of motion squats. That's how the body was meant to do them.
    Ive actually read that doing ass to floor was where you knees begin to break down and parallel is ideal

    "The depth in the squat should be controlled, with the thighs just breaking the parallel position."



    "Much beyond this point, the reaction between the hamstrings and calf muscle begins to act as a pry to force the joint apart... stretching the ligaments."

    here's a link talking about it (dislike#2 but number #1 is also helpful)
    http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1389282

  10. #9
    DeaTH BeFoRe WeaKNeSs sCaRz*Of*PaiN's Avatar
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    That would be incorrect. Read Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe. You probably won't find a more detailed explanation on the biomechanics of the squat anywhere else. And it literally isn't ass to floor. That would be impossible. And people have different body structures, which when...doing proper ATF squats...looks different for each person. It looks deeper on some than others and various things like that. But parallel squats are very bad for the knees and stress the ACL. With proper form ATF squats, there is almost no stress on the ACL. People with ACL problems can do ATF squats when done properly. ATF is full range of motion squats. It is how the body was biomechanically meant to do squats. Babies don't learn to start walking with partial squats. They learn to stand from the ground up. Sensei's signature explains better than I can. And squats are mostly a hip/glute movement and that's where a lot of the power comes from. ATF squats, FTW! To argue that natural movement the way it's biomechanically meant to be is inferior is preposterous.
    Last edited by sCaRz*Of*PaiN; 01-11-2007 at 04:45 PM.
    "The only easy day was yesterday."

  11. #10
    Senior Member stepto180's Avatar
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    hmm well i looked up the book you were talking about but didnt get much from it as I onlysaw a preview but one thing i did see was a incorrect diagram
    where they said this was and ideal squat position and the diagrams knees were way over its toes( i could see why it would stress your acl if you did them like that)
    i would be hesitant to believe something like that but I didnt get to see the part it talked about ass to floor squats and id like to im always willing to learn

    babies also have very loose and undeveoped muscles but i get ur point the article i posted talks about the same thing
    what does FTW mean?

  12. #11
    DeaTH BeFoRe WeaKNeSs sCaRz*Of*PaiN's Avatar
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    It means "For The Win". The previews don't do anything. I looked at the previews and it isn't even remotely an insight into the plethora of information in the book. It's good to learn a lot and if you're not convinced after reading the book, that choice is up to you. It's a book that teaches coaches and trainers to basically...coach and train beginners and to spot any possible flaws in form and how to correct them. After reading the section on squats, I new exactly why I was unable to do them and what I needed to do to correct my form/increase my flexibilty. I am now able to do squats with full flexibilty, and this is after having partial knee replacement surgery a little over a year ago.
    Last edited by sCaRz*Of*PaiN; 01-11-2007 at 06:08 PM.
    "The only easy day was yesterday."

  13. #12
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    What do you mean by "half squats" exactly? Do you mean to parallel? The reason I ask is because a lot of people who say they squat ATF (aka a "full squat"), don't and many who say they squat to parallel, don't.

    You'll hear arguments on both sides of the fence as far as whether full squats or parallel squats are better/worse for the knees. Personally, I don't know - I've known people on either side who've screwed up their knees AND others who've been squatting one way for decades and we're perfectly fine. I think that as long as you aren't doing too much too soon and using proper technique (and you don't have a predisposition to injury), either is fine on the knees.

    From a bodybuilding perspective, I don't think it matters much. Include both and you'll be covered.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
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  14. #13
    Senior Member HeavyBomber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    What do you mean by "half squats" exactly? Do you mean to parallel? The reason I ask is because a lot of people who say they squat ATF (aka a "full squat"), don't and many who say they squat to parallel, don't....[clip]...
    Sensei,
    I know a lot of people are confused with the terminology...

    For those that are,
    1/2 squats are squats done to parallel.

    So knowing that, it's strange to me when I hear people advising against 1/2 squats.
    Last edited by HeavyBomber; 01-11-2007 at 07:36 PM.

  15. #14
    Senior Member stepto180's Avatar
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    ill check it out and look past the horrible diagram!!! lol Icant help but want answer now tho about why parallel squats would actually be worse...somthing about stoping before you body naturally wants to maybe??? a 12" box squats could help eliminate that??? sorry im just thinking out loud feel free to ignore me

  16. #15
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    Your sig still inspires me, Sensei.
    "The only easy day was yesterday."

  17. #16
    Banned must_eat's Avatar
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    ATF I mean going all the way down, just my azz to the ground and yeah parallel squats or half squats, but ill keep the atf because they are way better.

    what do you guys think about the creatine though, should i take it before i work out? or after?

  18. #17
    C.S.C.S. ddegroff's Avatar
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    ^5g daily, every day.

    Don't do 1/4 squats.

    EDIT: My confusion...
    Last edited by ddegroff; 01-11-2007 at 07:49 PM.
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  19. #18
    Team Chesticles! Unholy's Avatar
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    **** I feel stupid, I thought 1/2 squat meant half ROM. For me for example my fat legs mean ATF is only a few inches different from parallel. Then i see guys at my gym load up 3pps and squat 4 " thats what I thougth was meant by half squats.
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  20. #19
    Eat Chicken Chris686's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XxH0LyWaRsxX View Post
    **** I feel stupid, I thought 1/2 squat meant half ROM. For me for example my fat legs mean ATF is only a few inches different from parallel. Then i see guys at my gym load up 3pps and squat 4 " thats what I thougth was meant by half squats.
    I think the terminology there is quarter squats, or on occasion, dime squats.
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  21. #20
    Senior Member HeavyBomber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XxH0LyWaRsxX View Post
    **** I feel stupid, I thought 1/2 squat meant half ROM. For me for example my fat legs mean ATF is only a few inches different from parallel. Then i see guys at my gym load up 3pps and squat 4 " thats what I thougth was meant by half squats.
    Nah, don't feel stupid. I thought the same thing as you until I started reading about olympic lifting.

  22. #21
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    This is the part where i lose hope.

    There seems to be no definite answer.

    - Are parallel squats safe?

    - Are 'ass in the grass' squats safe?

    I'm expecting 'Yes and no.' for both questions, but if anyone does actually have a definite answer that doesn't contradict itself, im all ears and eyes.

    Plus, what's this about getting weaker if you stop taking creatine?
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  23. #22
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Portboy View Post
    This is the part where i lose hope.

    There seems to be no definite answer.

    - Are parallel squats safe?

    - Are 'ass in the grass' squats safe?

    I'm expecting 'Yes and no.' for both questions, but if anyone does actually have a definite answer that doesn't contradict itself, im all ears and eyes.
    I think that as long as you aren't doing too much too soon and using proper technique (and you don't have a predisposition to injury), either is fine on the knees.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  24. #23
    ANVIL POWER Detard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Portboy View Post
    This is the part where i lose hope.

    There seems to be no definite answer.

    - Are parallel squats safe?

    - Are 'ass in the grass' squats safe?

    I'm expecting 'Yes and no.' for both questions, but if anyone does actually have a definite answer that doesn't contradict itself, im all ears and eyes.

    Plus, what's this about getting weaker if you stop taking creatine?
    as said before. there are arguments as to which is better for your knees. parallel or ass to grass. do whichever feels better for you.

    and as for the creatine question. im not sure. i'm a little confused on this aswell(i believe that if you stop taking it but continue to lift, you will neither get smaller nor lose strength). someone will probly tell u to use the search function but mabye someone will give a direct answer.
    Last edited by Detard; 01-12-2007 at 02:50 PM.
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  25. #24
    Banned must_eat's Avatar
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    yeah if you stop taking creatine then you lose the "water weight" and muscle so you have to keep on taking creatine so you wont shrink.

    creatine is more expensive then protein so its better to not even start the creatine becaue u will eventally just lose all the water weight muscle anyways.

    atf squats are the best and you should only do atf. anything else will hurt your knees.


  26. #25
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    Relax, it wasn't a flame at all.
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