The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Senior Member Invain's Avatar
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    Strength loss during a cut =/

    Yes, I know how to search, and yes I know there's been threads like this before, but I need some help.

    I'm pretty much ready to cut, but I just can't mentally make myself start. I keep putting it off and sayin, "Ok, 5 more pounds" or "I'll start the beginning of the next month." I know I have to get with it soon, as now I can really notice my body fat creeping up, but I just don't want to. Like other poeple, I'm so afraid I'm going to lose too much strength. I've come such a long ways and I now consider myself pretty strong compared to other guys my age, that I don't want to start cutting and see my lifts go backwards.

    I'm just curious, for all you guys that have run cuts before, did you lose much strength wise? Is it possible to really not lose any? Has anybody actually made small gains while on a cut?
    Last edited by Invain; 01-13-2007 at 11:50 AM.
    Best lifts: 615/475/660, Raw w/ Wraps
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  3. #2
    Back on track.. ray34iyf's Avatar
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    Well, I've never cut but I'm pretty close to needing one. I guess from what's been said the general consensus is the closer your cutting cals are to maintanance, the easier it'll be to keep up strength, even gain some. I'd also say that carb cycling is a good idea. I'm definitely going to use it.
    Hey, and don't worry about losing that much strength. You're in a MUCH better position to cut than alot of people, like myself, who's lifts aren't all that high.
    Age: 20
    Height: 5-9
    Weight:~160 @ 13-15 bf%?....starting figure after nearly a year of battling CFS/mono...so not too bad imo.

    http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJ...Owner=ray34iyf
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    Don't know anymore..don't care atm.

  4. #3
    Fountainhead Organichu's Avatar
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    Don't dip too far below maintenance, keep pushing it hard in the gym.

    It's possible to keep at decreases at bay.
    20 y/o, 6'1", 186 lbs, 14% BF
    bench: 350 deadlift: 560 parallel squat: 465
    total: 1375 @ 186

  5. #4
    Back in business WBBIRL's Avatar
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    So far I've yet to see a decrease and I'm down over 30 pounds. Strength gains have been minimal but I continue to improve on the lifts I still can do (hand injury) very very slowly. The way my bodys dealing with fatigue and recovery is less then on par with when I was eating at or slightly above maintance, but its to be expected.

  6. #5
    1000 or bust motoko013's Avatar
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    keep the weights heavy...it's natural to lose strength....if your nutrition is great you might even be able to keep progessing slowly....just make sure you don't drop cals too fast

    Reach down between your legs and find a pair of balls. That's what it takes to lift big weights. Genetics is the weak man's excuse for why he sucks at life. Don't be that guy - RhodeHouse

    Any man under 200lbs is a woman - RhodeHouse

  7. #6
    Tearing **** Up FortifiedIron's Avatar
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    Set up your nutrition around your training. Dont stay in a defiect all week and have set up refeeds. This will help minimize strength loss and if you do it correctly you can drop a large amount of bodyfat and increase your strength when doing so.

    Kc

  8. #7
    Senior Member RichMcGuire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FortifiedIron View Post
    Set up your nutrition around your training. Dont stay in a defiect all week and have set up refeeds. This will help minimize strength loss and if you do it correctly you can drop a large amount of bodyfat and increase your strength when doing so.

    Kc

    Just be careful with refeeds. If your body thinks its starving and goes into starvation mode, when you get an excess of calories randomly, it can be stored as body fat.
    First Bulk pics VS Starting pics, take a look!! http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...=1#post1616109

    Progress pics of a cut using bodyweight only movements http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...45#post2405745

    Generally, if you read a piece of advice on the internet, assume it's wrong until proven otherwise. This applies especially to "conventional wisdom". -Belial

  9. #8
    Senior Member bill's Avatar
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    KC Would you explain the approach you would take a little more. Thanks bill
    Remember, to get big, you have to get strong. The two are interconnected. Lift heavy, work hard, and size will come. Like night follows day. It works. Arnold
    Do work son. Big Black (Rob and Big)

  10. #9
    Tearing **** Up FortifiedIron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMcGuire View Post
    Just be careful with refeeds. If your body thinks its starving and goes into starvation mode, when you get an excess of calories randomly, it can be stored as body fat.
    1 or 2 refeeds a wk are not going to trigger any gain in excessive bodyfat if you do it correctly.

    Kc

  11. #10
    Learning as I progress
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    Could you explain how to do that?
    Complication breeds desperation.

  12. #11
    Meathead Philosopher Pup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMcGuire View Post
    Just be careful with refeeds. If your body thinks its starving and goes into starvation mode, when you get an excess of calories randomly, it can be stored as body fat.
    Depends on the length of the refeed. Several people (check out Galileo's journal) use an intermittent fasting approach with refeeds timed around training and he's not only peeling body fat, but recomping like a superhero.

    Define randomly? Are you referring to denovo lipogenesis, spillover from spiking insulin then consuming a lot of dietary fat? Also, are you taking into consideration protein amounts during periods of dieting?

    I'm not trying to be a nitpicky douchebag here, but, I see people say they are afraid to refeed for the reasons you seem to be implying and the science does not support the conclusion. The science does show however that if you diet for extended periods, you will see massive drops in leptin sensitivity "hitting the wall" and periodic refeeds with certain conditions will prevent extended dieting plateaus.
    May you be in heaven an hour before the devil knows you're dead.

  13. #12
    Senior Member RichMcGuire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FortifiedIron View Post
    1 or 2 refeeds a wk are not going to trigger any gain in excessive bodyfat if you do it correctly.

    Kc
    Im not really sure about the time frames.. But i do know it can be risky. I may be wrong but.. the best fuel source your body has is fat.. except, if it thinks its starving, it will save the fat and burn "useless" muscle and hoard any incoming nutrients as fat to live off later. This is why lifting heavy on a cut is so important. You give your body a reason to keep that muscle and instead burn off that fat.
    First Bulk pics VS Starting pics, take a look!! http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...=1#post1616109

    Progress pics of a cut using bodyweight only movements http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...45#post2405745

    Generally, if you read a piece of advice on the internet, assume it's wrong until proven otherwise. This applies especially to "conventional wisdom". -Belial

  14. #13
    Senior Member RichMcGuire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pup View Post
    Depends on the length of the refeed. Several people (check out Galileo's journal) use an intermittent fasting approach with refeeds timed around training and he's not only peeling body fat, but recomping like a superhero.

    Define randomly? Are you referring to denovo lipogenesis, spillover from spiking insulin then consuming a lot of dietary fat? Also, are you taking into consideration protein amounts during periods of dieting?

    I'm not trying to be a nitpicky douchebag here, but, I see people say they are afraid to refeed for the reasons you seem to be implying and the science does not support the conclusion. The science does show however that if you diet for extended periods, you will see massive drops in leptin sensitivity "hitting the wall" and periodic refeeds with certain conditions will prevent extended dieting plateaus.
    And I have to question, how much of a calorie deficit is this based on again? This is probably why a moderate calorie reduction is best.
    First Bulk pics VS Starting pics, take a look!! http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...=1#post1616109

    Progress pics of a cut using bodyweight only movements http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...45#post2405745

    Generally, if you read a piece of advice on the internet, assume it's wrong until proven otherwise. This applies especially to "conventional wisdom". -Belial

  15. #14
    Eat Chicken Chris686's Avatar
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    I did lose some strength on my cut. Though relative to the 20 pounds I lost in weight, I didn't lose all that much strength.
    Forever Goal: Strength

    Weightlifting sucks. I just like to lift heavy things.

  16. #15
    Meathead Philosopher Pup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMcGuire View Post
    And I have to question, how much of a calorie deficit is this based on again? This is probably why a moderate calorie reduction is best.
    Are you referring to the decrease in leptin sensitivity? I've seen research that shows the act of calorie reduction itself will decrease leptin sensitivity. A lot will depend on what bodyfat you are starting at. People who are severly overfat will have a lot of leptin, but they just don't use it very well. The leaner you get the more hits to leptin sensitivity you'll get (remember that leptin is a hormone secreted by fat cells).

    A moderate deficit is best for what? As you diet, you have to continue to drop calories to maintain fat loss, you can't do this indefinitely. While thermodynamics are certainly an important part of dieting the hormonal interplay is also just as vital. If protein levels are sufficient, atrophy can be kept at bay. Intelligent refeeds can keep muscle glycogen topped off and provide mild anabolism during a dieting period...thus keeping strength up.
    May you be in heaven an hour before the devil knows you're dead.

  17. #16
    Senior Member RichMcGuire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pup View Post
    Are you referring to the decrease in leptin sensitivity? I've seen research that shows the act of calorie reduction itself will decrease leptin sensitivity. A lot will depend on what bodyfat you are starting at. People who are severly overfat will have a lot of leptin, but they just don't use it very well. The leaner you get the more hits to leptin sensitivity you'll get (remember that leptin is a hormone secreted by fat cells).

    A moderate deficit is best for what? As you diet, you have to continue to drop calories to maintain fat loss, you can't do this indefinitely. While thermodynamics are certainly an important part of dieting the hormonal interplay is also just as vital. If protein levels are sufficient, atrophy can be kept at bay. Intelligent refeeds can keep muscle glycogen topped off and provide mild anabolism during a dieting period...thus keeping strength up.
    I think we are more interested in how to do that

    So youre from michigan? Im in Grand Rapids here

    To the mod, you should get ahold of built..shes probably the master at cutting and will be able to give you insight about str loss during a cut.
    First Bulk pics VS Starting pics, take a look!! http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...=1#post1616109

    Progress pics of a cut using bodyweight only movements http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...45#post2405745

    Generally, if you read a piece of advice on the internet, assume it's wrong until proven otherwise. This applies especially to "conventional wisdom". -Belial

  18. #17
    Meathead Philosopher Pup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMcGuire View Post
    I think we are more interested in how to do that

    So youre from michigan? Im in Grand Rapids here

    To the mod, you should get ahold of built..shes probably the master at cutting and will be able to give you insight about str loss during a cut.
    The science is there for cutting while keeping leptin up and prevent muscle loss.

    I live in Mid Michigan, i like GR.

    Who needs to talk to Built? I hope you're not talking to me. I know and respect MariAnne, but I'm pretty competent at cutting and reading research on nutritional biochem...thnx
    May you be in heaven an hour before the devil knows you're dead.

  19. #18
    Senior Member RichMcGuire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pup View Post
    The science is there for cutting while keeping leptin up and prevent muscle loss.

    I live in Mid Michigan, i like GR.

    Who needs to talk to Built? I hope you're not talking to me. I know and respect MariAnne, but I'm pretty competent at cutting and reading research on nutritional biochem...thnx
    Maybe you should read my message again..I said.. TO THE MOD
    First Bulk pics VS Starting pics, take a look!! http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...=1#post1616109

    Progress pics of a cut using bodyweight only movements http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...45#post2405745

    Generally, if you read a piece of advice on the internet, assume it's wrong until proven otherwise. This applies especially to "conventional wisdom". -Belial

  20. #19
    Tearing **** Up FortifiedIron's Avatar
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    Who would the MOD be?

    Kc

  21. #20
    Senior Member bill's Avatar
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    oops OP
    Remember, to get big, you have to get strong. The two are interconnected. Lift heavy, work hard, and size will come. Like night follows day. It works. Arnold
    Do work son. Big Black (Rob and Big)

  22. #21
    Senior Member RichMcGuire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FortifiedIron View Post
    Who would the MOD be?

    Kc

    The mod of the subject..i was implying the person we were suppose to be helping. The one that started the thread........
    First Bulk pics VS Starting pics, take a look!! http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...=1#post1616109

    Progress pics of a cut using bodyweight only movements http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...45#post2405745

    Generally, if you read a piece of advice on the internet, assume it's wrong until proven otherwise. This applies especially to "conventional wisdom". -Belial

  23. #22
    Senior Member bill's Avatar
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    Pup have you written anything on cutting? Or do you have anything you would suggest?
    Remember, to get big, you have to get strong. The two are interconnected. Lift heavy, work hard, and size will come. Like night follows day. It works. Arnold
    Do work son. Big Black (Rob and Big)

  24. #23
    Senior Member bill's Avatar
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    I asked KC, but he said to seek you out. Something about teaching you everything he knew.















    J/K
    Last edited by bill; 01-13-2007 at 08:28 PM.
    Remember, to get big, you have to get strong. The two are interconnected. Lift heavy, work hard, and size will come. Like night follows day. It works. Arnold
    Do work son. Big Black (Rob and Big)

  25. #24
    Meathead Philosopher Pup's Avatar
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    Here is a study to compare how leptin levels compare in fasted obese v. lean subjects (notice how overall bodyfat effects the serum leptin concentrations)

    The influence of short-term fasting on serum leptin levels, and selected hormonal and metabolic parameters in morbidly obese and lean females.Haluzik M, Matoulek M, Svacina S, Hilgertova J, Haas T.
    Third Department of Medicine, First Faculty of Medicine, Charles University and University Hospital, Prague, Czech Republic. mhalu@lfl.cuni.cz

    The aim of our study was to compare the changes of serum leptin levels after 24-h fasting in morbidly obese and lean females and to search for hormonal and metabolic factors responsible for the changes in serum leptin levels. Fourteen morbidly obese and twelve lean females were included in the study. The blood for leptin, insulin, cortisol, blood glucose (BG), beta-OH-butyrate (beta-OH), dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) and DHEA-sulphate (DHEA-S) measurements was withdrawn before and after a 24-h fast. Basal body mass index (BMI), serum leptin, insulin and beta-OH levels were significantly higher in the obese compared to the lean group. The 24-h fasting decreased significantly BMI, serum leptin (by 20% in obese vs. 62% in lean subjects), insulin (by 23.3% in obese vs. 23.1% in lean subjects) and increased beta-OH (by 36% in obese vs. 1300% in lean subjects). Basal serum leptin levels correlated positively with BMI in both groups and with insulin levels in the obese group. The multiple regression analysis using delta leptin as dependent and the basal values of the rest of studied parameters as independent variables revealed that in lean subjects serum cortisol together with DHEA-S and BMI accounted for 71% of variations of the change of serum leptin levels (delta leptin = 0.31- 0.0101 cortisol + 0.0012 DHEA-S + 0.37 BMI). In obese subjects the 43.9% of variations of the change of serum leptin levels was explained by BMI together with age and DHEA-S levels (delta leptin = 36.09 + 0.35 BMI - 0.717 age- 0.008 DHEA-S). The drop of serum leptin levels after 24-h starvation is significantly blunted in obese compared to lean subjects. The reason for the difference is probably the insulin resistance possibly further modified by different DHEA-S levels.
    May you be in heaven an hour before the devil knows you're dead.

  26. #25
    Senior Member RichMcGuire's Avatar
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    Now the thing that remains .. still... is how to incorporate that..lol.
    First Bulk pics VS Starting pics, take a look!! http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...=1#post1616109

    Progress pics of a cut using bodyweight only movements http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...45#post2405745

    Generally, if you read a piece of advice on the internet, assume it's wrong until proven otherwise. This applies especially to "conventional wisdom". -Belial

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