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Thread: Strength loss during a cut =/

  1. #26
    Meathead Philosopher Pup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill View Post
    Pup have you written anything on cutting? Or do you have anything you would suggest?
    I don't write articles...but if you want to lose bodyfat while maintaining strength, I suggest calorie and carb cycling.

    Like Kyle and I have said in the thread, you have to manipulate your calories around your training. If you want faster fat loss, I would suggest a Hi/Low cycle of calorie and carb cycling. Your low days should be similar to a PSMF (1.25-1.5g protein, trace carbs and fat), high days should be 1-1.25g/lb protein, .5/lb fat, 2g/lb carbs (put 25% at breakfast, the rest at post and post-post workout).

    If you don't particularly like the calorie counting stuff, I suggest looking at Galileo's journal and read how he does the intermittent PSMF with 5 hour refeeds post training.
    May you be in heaven an hour before the devil knows you're dead.

  2. #27
    Meathead Philosopher Pup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMcGuire View Post
    Now the thing that remains .. still... is how to incorporate that..lol.
    The point is simple...the leaner you are, the bigger the hit your leptin levels take a hit from calorie restriction.

    How do you prevent muscle loss? Adequate protein. How do you maintain satiety? Either modest deficit with sufficient EFA intake or PSMF with refeeds around training. Things like insulin sensitivity and insulin resistance improve with training, not dieting like a moron improves them further. The bottom line is whether you want a slow and steady diet where the scale slowly creeps or something more radical that takes planning and strict attention to the post workout window and intelligent refeeding protocols.
    May you be in heaven an hour before the devil knows you're dead.

  3. #28
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    Would the refeed protocols be what you outlined in you previous post?
    Complication breeds desperation.

  4. #29
    Meathead Philosopher Pup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Con View Post
    Would the refeed protocols be what you outlined in you previous post?
    The manner in which you refeed depends entirely on how you diet.

    If you do a low carb approach during the week (100g or lower)...then you could do a clean carb load 1x a week. Aim for 600g or so, keep the fat down and be fine. If you are doing a ketogenic diet, it becomes more complicated.

    For diets like Lyle's UD2 or his PSMF, you have a bit more stringent guidelines that he outlines in his books.

    If you do the IF approach with refeeds timed around workouts, posttraining is PRO+CHO shake, refeed lasts 5 hours, you can have a bit more "rebellious" food during this period because partitioning will be at an optimum.
    Last edited by Pup; 01-14-2007 at 07:54 AM.
    May you be in heaven an hour before the devil knows you're dead.

  5. #30
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    What exactly do you mean by "leptin sensitivity"? High leptin levels means you'll fell satiated, right?

    And as a side note, since overfat people have higher levels of leptin, wouldn't that mean they feel satiated more often? Which would lead me to the conclusion of "they're eating while feeling full"

    Ugh, I don't do well with bio.

  6. #31
    Senior Member Invain's Avatar
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    Hmmmmm. Thanks everybody. Didn't know this would start into a debate, but at least my question was answered.

    Btw, Pup, what part of Mid-Michigan do you live in? I'm near Caro up in the Thumb.
    Best lifts: 615/475/660, Raw w/ Wraps
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by FortifiedIron View Post
    Set up your nutrition around your training. Dont stay in a defiect all week and have set up refeeds. This will help minimize strength loss and if you do it correctly you can drop a large amount of bodyfat and increase your strength when doing so.

    Kc
    i do something like this, during the week im in a pretty big defiect with probley 20-30 carbs all day, then on friday night and saturday i eat what ever i want but not over abundance, im down 8 lbs in 2 1/2 weeks and i still feel good.
    2000 or bust

  8. #33
    Journalist galileo's Avatar
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    lol @ all of this.

    Listen to Pup, for he knows what he's saying.

  9. #34
    Tearing **** Up FortifiedIron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by galileo View Post
    lol @ all of this.

    Listen to Pup, for he knows what he's saying.
    I second that suggestion.

    I was 260-265 the first time I worked with Pup and about 8-10 weeks later he had me down to 230 pounds with visible abs.

    Kc

  10. #35
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    Well approaches like this make dietin see so much easier. Guess ill listen to pup as well.

    Btw KC, which approach did you take and what bf% did you start at?
    Complication breeds desperation.

  11. #36
    no matter what SaVvY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Invain View Post
    Yes, I know how to search, and yes I know there's been threads like this before, but I need some help.

    I'm pretty much ready to cut, but I just can't mentally make myself start. I keep putting it off and sayin, "Ok, 5 more pounds" or "I'll start the beginning of the next month." I know I have to get with it soon, as now I can really notice my body fat creeping up, but I just don't want to. Like other poeple, I'm so afraid I'm going to lose too much strength. I've come such a long ways and I now consider myself pretty strong compared to other guys my age, that I don't want to start cutting and see my lifts go backwards.

    I'm just curious, for all you guys that have run cuts before, did you lose much strength wise? Is it possible to really not lose any? Has anybody actually made small gains while on a cut?
    ive droped from 18% to 12% body fat an gained strength all the time - you shouldn't be massively starving yourself, and you should also be doing strength training while cutting

  12. #37
    Meathead Philosopher Pup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSpikeyThing View Post
    What exactly do you mean by "leptin sensitivity"? High leptin levels means you'll fell satiated, right?

    And as a side note, since overfat people have higher levels of leptin, wouldn't that mean they feel satiated more often? Which would lead me to the conclusion of "they're eating while feeling full"

    Ugh, I don't do well with bio.
    Think of it like this:

    1. If you are lean and dieting, the amount of leptin in your body is less. Leptin is made by bodyfat, so what little bit lean individuals have determines how fast they can lose bodyfat. Leptin isn't so much about satiety (i believe that is Ghrelin, but don't quote me) its about the hormonal regulation of fat loss. If you can periodically "spike" leptin levels, your body is tricked into thinking that you aren't trying to kill it and when you resume calorie restriction, the feedback inhibition isn't so strong.

    2. If you are overfat, you have an abundance of leptin, but can't use it (sensitivity). This is a major reason why people with high bodyfat levels can use protein sparing modified fasts (PSMF) and diet for a long time without hitting the wall (they have a lot of leptin, calorie restriction improves its usage and with adequate protein intake, there is minimal lbm loss).
    Last edited by Pup; 01-14-2007 at 02:12 PM.
    May you be in heaven an hour before the devil knows you're dead.

  13. #38
    Meathead Philosopher Pup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Invain View Post
    Hmmmmm. Thanks everybody. Didn't know this would start into a debate, but at least my question was answered.

    Btw, Pup, what part of Mid-Michigan do you live in? I'm near Caro up in the Thumb.

    On forums like these, debates usually provide the best information.

    I live in Rose City, headed to Saginaw in the fall to start up my BSN at SVSU.
    May you be in heaven an hour before the devil knows you're dead.

  14. #39
    Senior Member Vapour Trails's Avatar
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    All you need to know: Ultimate Diet 2.0

    Forget strength size maintenance while losing bodyfat, how about muscle gain with loss of body fat.
    That's a picture of Scarlett Johansson.

  15. #40
    Iced Earth - Stormrider ArchAngel777's Avatar
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    UD 2.0 is a good... I just hate the low carb days :-/ Until you eliminate carbs, you have no idea what you are missing. I didn't think I was carb dependant (I wasn't that much) but I really was, because going under 100g is difficult for me. I am on my third week of UD 2.0 and this carb restriction is still a pain... Food is so bland. I can only spike chicken breasts up in so many ways... Mostly with Cheyanne peppers or what not... Hmmm... Anyway, UD 2.0 has been awesome for me so far. But honestly, I am very very tempted to move to a carb cycling aproach... Low, Mid, High type days. Going without carbs for one day is easy, going without carbs for 4 days straight just really sucks.

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