The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Senior Member 123 champ's Avatar
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    Leg press routine for strength?

    hey, my lower back is messed up right now so i can't squat so i have to use the leg press machine along with leg extension and leg curl machines to get my leg workout in. Does anyone have a good strength training routine with these machines?
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  3. #2
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    I sure as hell wouldn't be doing leg press if I was worried about my back...
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
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  4. #3
    Senior Member 123 champ's Avatar
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    the doctor told me to do leg press instead of squat because it doesn't compress my back
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  5. #4
    Super Moderator vdizenzo's Avatar
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    How is your back messed up at 15?

  6. #5
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
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    I had to drop leg press and back squats when I fubar'd my back last year.

    I switched to fronts and they worked great - better quad stimulation with less weight, and they don't hurt my back. Problem solved.

    If your doctor said leg press won't hurt your lower back, find a better doctor.

  7. #6
    Senior Member 123 champ's Avatar
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    is it ok to lift heavy on front squats till failure? cause i can front squat 180 at least 1x12 if not more.
    Last edited by 123 champ; 03-15-2007 at 10:41 PM.
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  8. #7
    ANVIL POWER Detard's Avatar
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    Dont lift to failure if you have a back injury. Keep it light if you MUST workout. Let your injuries heal dude. ESPECIALLY back injuries.
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  9. #8
    Senior Member Anthony's Avatar
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    Your doctor is an idiot. Leg press is one of the leading causes of back problems.
    Facebook - BW166 SQ585 BP405 DL660 CL310

  10. #9
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 123 champ View Post
    is it ok to lift heavy on front squats till failure? cause i can front squat 180 at least 1x12 if not more.
    Your upper back will fatigue more quickly than you quads. Probably not the best idea to do higher reps to failure w. front squats - you're going to risk putting your back in a compromising position.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  11. #10
    Senior Member 123 champ's Avatar
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    well can anyone give me a a set and rep scheme for front squat like with percents?
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  12. #11
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    %s will vary depending on your experience with the exercise.

    Stick w. relatively low reps on front squats (1-6 reps).

    Like detard said, let your injuries heal. Then, work on technique. You shouldn't be having to train around injuries at 15.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  13. #12
    Senior Member DNL's Avatar
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    why don't you try variation of lunges, step up, body weight squat, one legged squat. you'll be getting some work done while letting your back heals.

  14. #13
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    At 15, you had a doctor tell you to leg press because your back is 'fubar'?

    What, EXACTLY is wrong with your back? Did he tell you that? If not, call him and find out. Or are you reading more into what he said because you don't like to squat?

    As mentioned above, pretty much anyone who suggests a leg press to a 15 year old who has a back problem so severe it requires them to limit training is ignorant at best.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
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  15. #14
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    I strained a muscle in my back pretty badly about a year ago. I made the mistake of not quitting leg presses. I am still suffering from sciatica a year later. I don't know if the leg presses played a role in the improper healing of my back or not, but if I had it to do over again i would have stopped training completely except for rehab work. I'm still afraid to do heavy deadlifts. Just let it heal man. At 15 you've got a lot of years of lifting ahead of you, but you don't want permanent back problems following you. Better safe than sorry.

  16. #15
    Senior Member 123 champ's Avatar
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    i have stress fractures in my lower back from the weight on my shoulders compressing my spinal cord. thats why he told me to do leg press, so my spinal cord was not compressed. he said it was caused by just doing heavy loads of weight for my size, and not necessarily bad form.
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    RAW Lifts
    Squat: 295x5
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    Deadlift: 300x5

  17. #16
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Spinal flexion (rounding) will generally cause a lot of disc compression, and that's exactly what you'll get with leg press unless you limit the range of motion so much that you're barely bending the knees at all.

    We've had this discussion about the dangers of leg press a lot. Do a search.

    I'm not an MD and I'm not suggesting you ignore his advice, but IMHO you'd be better off just resting rather than doing leg presses to train around the injury.

    At 15, you squat about 2.5xbdwt.... That's pretty impressive. How long had you been training when you hit that number? I'd be interested to see a video of it if you have one. I have no doubt that training too heavy too quickly and/or form issues are the cause of your stress fractures.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  18. #17
    ANVIL POWER Detard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    At 15, you squat about 2.5xbdwt.... That's pretty impressive. How long had you been training when you hit that number? I'd be interested to see a video of it if you have one. I have no doubt that training too heavy too quickly and/or form issues are the cause of your stress fractures.
    I too would like to see a video because as said before, your probobly trying too much too quickly which is making your form suffer. And when form = bad, injuries = likely.
    Last edited by Detard; 03-17-2007 at 08:35 AM.
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  19. #18
    Senior Member 123 champ's Avatar
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    well my coach always told me that i had good form. in fact my first 2 years he didnt even let me fully max out to make sure that i got my form down, which i think is the reason why i can squat as much as i do now. And I know there are a lot of crazy coaches out thereÖbelieve me... but he is pretty good compared to the other ones. He is anti-pain. i have been training for 4 years and have been in the same weight class all 4 years because my body fat keeps dropping while my strength keeps going up.

    As for the video, sorry your outta luck. I donít never recorded any videos or pictures of me squatting and itís too late to do one now. The only picture I have is me doing a 325lb dead lift at 120.2 pounds. Ill link it below:

    http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/8...ft120lbpj5.jpg
    Last edited by 123 champ; 03-17-2007 at 12:10 PM.
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  20. #19
    Senior Member 123 champ's Avatar
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    btw i failed to mention that it might have been deadlifting that messed up my back....look at my face in the link before and u can see im in a lot of stress
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    Deadlift: 300x5

  21. #20
    Eat Chicken Chris686's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 123 champ View Post
    btw i failed to mention that it might have been deadlifting that messed up my back....look at my face in the link before and u can see im in a lot of stress
    That looks like you're lifting heavy weight... It doesn't look like you're "In a lot of stress."
    Forever Goal: Strength

    Weightlifting sucks. I just like to lift heavy things.

  22. #21
    Senior Member 123 champ's Avatar
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    i popped 2 blood vessels in my eyes and about 20 in my neck doing that lift lol.
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    Deadlift: 300x5

  23. #22
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 123 champ View Post
    i have stress fractures in my lower back from the weight on my shoulders compressing my spinal cord. thats why he told me to do leg press, so my spinal cord was not compressed. he said it was caused by just doing heavy loads of weight for my size, and not necessarily bad form.

    Then you should not be lifting at all, you should be workign with a physical therapist and an otrhopeadic surgeon to get you healthy.

    You need to switch doctors, immediately.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
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  24. #23
    Senior Member 123 champ's Avatar
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    the doctor is an otrhopeadic surgeon.
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    Deadlift: 300x5

  25. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by 123 champ View Post
    the doctor is an otrhopeadic surgeon.
    You should ask him why it's ok to be doing any sort of lifting while you have stress fractures in your spine. Does it not seem a little crazy that you have a fractured back and your doctor is basically allowing you to use more weight in a more compromising position?

    Seriously, get a second opinion.

  26. #25
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    Off topic:

    I need spell check.

    On Topic:

    Either have the doc explain exactly what is wrong, or find another doc. What you are describing doesn't make any sense to me. Now, it could very well be you have a good doc, and you are misunderstanding the diagnosis.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
    I has a facebook.

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