The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Back on track.. ray34iyf's Avatar
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    Deadlift speed training?

    Hey all-
    I got my bottle of thermocin I ordered today and in the box it had a sheet with the top ten deadlifting tips. In these tips, it mentioned how the deadlift shouldn't be a weekly thing but should possibly integrated with some speedtraining. Can someone elaborate on this? Has anyone done this?
    It says to do 60% of 1rm with 1 rep singles of 5-8 sets.
    Age: 20
    Height: 5-9
    Weight:~160 @ 13-15 bf%?....starting figure after nearly a year of battling CFS/mono...so not too bad imo.

    http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJ...Owner=ray34iyf
    Max Lifts:
    Don't know anymore..don't care atm.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member deeder's Avatar
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    What? Deadlift not a weekly thing? That's blasphemy!
    Full Powerlifting
    Squat - 595lbs -- 270kg -- Dec. 31, '09 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Bench - 374lbs -- 170kg -- Dec 20, '08 (@100kg class)
    Dead - 589lbs -- 267.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Total: 1537lbs -- 697.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)
    Bench Only -- 358lbs -- 162.5kg -- Nov. 25, '07 (Provincial Record @ 90kg class)
    Bench Only -- 376lbs -- 171kg -- Jan. 26, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)

  4. #3
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    Yeah I do speed pulls with 50-60% of my max for 6-10 singles, right after my box squats. I do the speed pulls every other week.

  5. #4
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    its basically straight out of westside...

  6. #5
    Back on track.. ray34iyf's Avatar
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    When you say 6-10 singles, you mean you do ONLY one and then rest for a short time and then another?
    Can you explain a bit more how to correctly do deadlift speed reps?
    Age: 20
    Height: 5-9
    Weight:~160 @ 13-15 bf%?....starting figure after nearly a year of battling CFS/mono...so not too bad imo.

    http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJ...Owner=ray34iyf
    Max Lifts:
    Don't know anymore..don't care atm.

  7. #6
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    There's only a concentric portion to a deadlift, so you should train them for singles. Get set, grab the bar and pull it as explosively as possible, then drop it. Repeat 6-10 times.

  8. #7
    Senior Member deeder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wannabepua View Post
    its basically straight out of westside...
    Yeah I know... I'm not a big believer in Westside anymore...

    Props to anyone getting results deadlifting once a week or every 2 weeks... I wish I could add pounds to my deadlift doing that. They aren't the most fun but they are a neccessary evil IMO. I'm pulling twice a week right now.
    Full Powerlifting
    Squat - 595lbs -- 270kg -- Dec. 31, '09 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Bench - 374lbs -- 170kg -- Dec 20, '08 (@100kg class)
    Dead - 589lbs -- 267.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Total: 1537lbs -- 697.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)
    Bench Only -- 358lbs -- 162.5kg -- Nov. 25, '07 (Provincial Record @ 90kg class)
    Bench Only -- 376lbs -- 171kg -- Jan. 26, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by deeder View Post
    Yeah I know... I'm not a big believer in Westside anymore...

    Props to anyone getting results deadlifting once a week or every 2 weeks... I wish I could add pounds to my deadlift doing that. They aren't the most fun but they are a neccessary evil IMO. I'm pulling twice a week right now.
    i dont believe that you are not a believer in west side, everyone should be, it works, as proven time and time again by some of the strongest in the country.

    now whether it works FOR YOU is different, given that your younger you can probably get away with pulling twice a week (i do it as well, the joys of youth ). but to say you are not a believer in something that has given the community some of its strongest players makes me do this:

    you dont like deadlifting though? ooooh its fun

  10. #9
    Gaglione Strength Chris Rodgers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deeder View Post
    Yeah I know... I'm not a big believer in Westside anymore...

    Props to anyone getting results deadlifting once a week or every 2 weeks... I wish I could add pounds to my deadlift doing that. They aren't the most fun but they are a neccessary evil IMO. I'm pulling twice a week right now.
    In due time you will realize that with all the other heavy lifting, pulling heavy often will hinder gains. I have to make myself not pull heavy because I love it. I could pull heavy 2-3 times per week, but it's no the optimal thing.
    Best Meet Lifts(Raw w/wraps):
    @165- 435 SQ 270 BE 560 DL.....1255 total
    @181- 515 SQ 295 BE 570 DL.....1375 total
    Best Meet Lifts(Multi-ply):
    @148- 575 SQ 315 BE 515 DL.....1400 total
    @165- 680 SQ 380 BE 540 DL.....1555 total
    @181- 700 SQ 375 BE 535 DL.....1605 total
    Best Gym Lifts(Raw w/wraps)
    515 SQ 302.5 BE 585 DL

  11. #10
    Senior Member Sidior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Rodgers View Post
    In due time you will realize that with all the other heavy lifting, pulling heavy often will hinder gains. I have to make myself not pull heavy because I love it. I could pull heavy 2-3 times per week, but it's no the optimal thing.
    I think alot has to do with the individual and their level of experience. Someone who has only been training for a few years can get away with pulling much more often than an elite athlete.
    PRs: 655/525/645 = 1825 Total
    Meet PRs: Bench Only 525

    Deadlifts bring people together. It's a fact. - Chris Rodgers

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidior View Post
    I think alot has to do with the individual and their level of experience. Someone who has only been training for a few years can get away with pulling much more often than an elite athlete.
    :withstupi

  13. #12
    Senior Member deeder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wannabepua View Post
    i dont believe that you are not a believer in west side, everyone should be, it works, as proven time and time again by some of the strongest in the country.

    now whether it works FOR YOU is different, given that your younger you can probably get away with pulling twice a week (i do it as well, the joys of youth ). but to say you are not a believer in something that has given the community some of its strongest players makes me do this:

    you dont like deadlifting though? ooooh its fun
    I guess what I put in bold is my issue with Westside then. I tried a westside routine for a while, saw decent bench and squat gains but struggled to maintain my deadlift.

    Also, it has given the powerlifting community some of its strongest players in the WPO and IPA right? Yes, that's a statement and question combined in one. The gear they use is very different than what is used in the IPF (where I compete) and I feel it calls for different styles of training (as do many people that I've talked to who compete in the IPF).

    I don't mind deadlifting, hate bench pressing, LOVE squatting.
    Full Powerlifting
    Squat - 595lbs -- 270kg -- Dec. 31, '09 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Bench - 374lbs -- 170kg -- Dec 20, '08 (@100kg class)
    Dead - 589lbs -- 267.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Total: 1537lbs -- 697.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)
    Bench Only -- 358lbs -- 162.5kg -- Nov. 25, '07 (Provincial Record @ 90kg class)
    Bench Only -- 376lbs -- 171kg -- Jan. 26, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)

  14. #13
    Gaglione Strength Chris Rodgers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wannabepua View Post
    :withstupi
    :withstupi
    Best Meet Lifts(Raw w/wraps):
    @165- 435 SQ 270 BE 560 DL.....1255 total
    @181- 515 SQ 295 BE 570 DL.....1375 total
    Best Meet Lifts(Multi-ply):
    @148- 575 SQ 315 BE 515 DL.....1400 total
    @165- 680 SQ 380 BE 540 DL.....1555 total
    @181- 700 SQ 375 BE 535 DL.....1605 total
    Best Gym Lifts(Raw w/wraps)
    515 SQ 302.5 BE 585 DL

  15. #14
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    One thing I would caution the novice about when DLing, and especially if they are going to try a "speed DL session", make absolutely sure that you are not jerking the bar off the floor and going loosey-goosey after you get some momentum w. the weight.

    I love WS, but I don't think that novice lifters (or intermediate lifters for that matter) really have much need of "speedy" DL work.

    Just like any other lift, I'm a firm believer in practicing the DL if you want to see improvement - that doesn't mean you have to go heavy all the time, of course. It sure seems like WS does a lot more DLing on a regular basis than they did, say, 5-7 years ago.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  16. #15
    Senior Member deeder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidior View Post
    I think alot has to do with the individual and their level of experience. Someone who has only been training for a few years can get away with pulling much more often than an elite athlete.
    I agree with this too. I'm sure if I had an 800lb deadlift I'd be less willing to pull up to 80% twice a week.
    Full Powerlifting
    Squat - 595lbs -- 270kg -- Dec. 31, '09 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Bench - 374lbs -- 170kg -- Dec 20, '08 (@100kg class)
    Dead - 589lbs -- 267.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Total: 1537lbs -- 697.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)
    Bench Only -- 358lbs -- 162.5kg -- Nov. 25, '07 (Provincial Record @ 90kg class)
    Bench Only -- 376lbs -- 171kg -- Jan. 26, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)

  17. #16
    Gaglione Strength Chris Rodgers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deeder View Post
    I guess what I put in bold is my issue with Westside then. I tried a westside routine for a while, saw decent bench and squat gains but struggled to maintain my deadlift.

    Also, it has given the powerlifting community some of its strongest players in the WPO and IPA right? Yes, that's a statement and question combined in one. The gear they use is very different than what is used in the IPF (where I compete) and I feel it calls for different styles of training (as do many people that I've talked to who compete in the IPF).

    I don't mind deadlifting, hate bench pressing, LOVE squatting.


    IPF!

    I'm sorry to hear that.
    Best Meet Lifts(Raw w/wraps):
    @165- 435 SQ 270 BE 560 DL.....1255 total
    @181- 515 SQ 295 BE 570 DL.....1375 total
    Best Meet Lifts(Multi-ply):
    @148- 575 SQ 315 BE 515 DL.....1400 total
    @165- 680 SQ 380 BE 540 DL.....1555 total
    @181- 700 SQ 375 BE 535 DL.....1605 total
    Best Gym Lifts(Raw w/wraps)
    515 SQ 302.5 BE 585 DL

  18. #17
    Senior Member deeder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Rodgers View Post
    IPF!

    I'm sorry to hear that.
    Haha, that seems to be the sentiment of many powerlifters!

    Funny thing is, all the IPF lifters I know scoff at all the other feds...

    I'm pretty new to all this but I'm gonna stick with the IPF for a while. I haven't even started wearing equipment yet so single ply gear is a good place to start!
    Last edited by deeder; 04-19-2007 at 11:18 PM.
    Full Powerlifting
    Squat - 595lbs -- 270kg -- Dec. 31, '09 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Bench - 374lbs -- 170kg -- Dec 20, '08 (@100kg class)
    Dead - 589lbs -- 267.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Total: 1537lbs -- 697.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)
    Bench Only -- 358lbs -- 162.5kg -- Nov. 25, '07 (Provincial Record @ 90kg class)
    Bench Only -- 376lbs -- 171kg -- Jan. 26, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)

  19. #18
    Senior Member Sidior's Avatar
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    To add a bit more to the westside stuff. I think the reason most of those guys can get away with only pulling once and awhile, or doing full free squats very rarely is because most have been practicing the movements for years. I also feel adding equipment (particularly breifs) allows for the large amount of wide box squatting and other training they do which would cause issue with a raw trainee (it did for me anyways).

    Also I plan to compete in the IPF, its all we have around here lol.
    PRs: 655/525/645 = 1825 Total
    Meet PRs: Bench Only 525

    Deadlifts bring people together. It's a fact. - Chris Rodgers

  20. #19
    Gaglione Strength Chris Rodgers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deeder View Post
    Haha, that seems to be the sentiment of many powerlifters!

    Funny thing is, all the IPF lifters I know scoff at all the other feds...
    That sounds right. The IPF/USAPL just isn't very lifter friendly. The first few meets I did just left a bad taste in my mouth. The meets I do now I have sooo much more fun at. I'd rather have fun and bomb out than go to a IPF/USAPL meet and watch lifters who trained their ass off get robbed over and over by ridiculous judging.

    That's just my opinion. You Canada guy's are screwed, lol.
    Last edited by Chris Rodgers; 04-19-2007 at 11:25 PM.
    Best Meet Lifts(Raw w/wraps):
    @165- 435 SQ 270 BE 560 DL.....1255 total
    @181- 515 SQ 295 BE 570 DL.....1375 total
    Best Meet Lifts(Multi-ply):
    @148- 575 SQ 315 BE 515 DL.....1400 total
    @165- 680 SQ 380 BE 540 DL.....1555 total
    @181- 700 SQ 375 BE 535 DL.....1605 total
    Best Gym Lifts(Raw w/wraps)
    515 SQ 302.5 BE 585 DL

  21. #20
    Senior Member deeder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Rodgers View Post
    That sounds right. The IPF/USAPL just isn't very lifter friendly. The first few meets I did just left a bad taste in my mouth. The meets I do now I have sooo much more fun at. I'd rather have fun and bomb out than go to a IPF/USAPL meet and watch lifters who trained their ass off get robbed over and over by ridiculous judging.

    That's just my opinion. You Canada guy's are screwed, lol.
    What do you mean by ridiculous judging? My experience is that it can seem very inconsistent at times.

    If you're talking more about depth rules for squats, pauses for bench, technical type stuff... Well you know the rules coming in. Lift in accordingly and you won't get 'robbed'.
    Full Powerlifting
    Squat - 595lbs -- 270kg -- Dec. 31, '09 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Bench - 374lbs -- 170kg -- Dec 20, '08 (@100kg class)
    Dead - 589lbs -- 267.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Total: 1537lbs -- 697.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)
    Bench Only -- 358lbs -- 162.5kg -- Nov. 25, '07 (Provincial Record @ 90kg class)
    Bench Only -- 376lbs -- 171kg -- Jan. 26, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)

  22. #21
    Gaglione Strength Chris Rodgers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deeder View Post
    What do you mean by ridiculous judging? My experience is that it can seem very inconsistent at times.

    If you're talking more about depth rules for squats, pauses for bench, technical type stuff... Well you know the rules coming in. Lift in accordingly and you won't get 'robbed'.

    One meet- guy was redlighted on a perfect squat because the head judge saw some of his boxer shorts sticking out of his squat suit leg. This was a small, state meet(not a big national or world event). That is ridiculous! Same meet I saw numerous lifters dunk squats and just get reds. No reason.


    How can you not have a press call? That is one of the dumbest things. Everyone has to guess when to press. I see some guys sit there for 3 seconds while others barely stop. There should always be a command.

    There really is nothing I like about the fed, that's just my opinion and I'm happy to not lift in it.
    Best Meet Lifts(Raw w/wraps):
    @165- 435 SQ 270 BE 560 DL.....1255 total
    @181- 515 SQ 295 BE 570 DL.....1375 total
    Best Meet Lifts(Multi-ply):
    @148- 575 SQ 315 BE 515 DL.....1400 total
    @165- 680 SQ 380 BE 540 DL.....1555 total
    @181- 700 SQ 375 BE 535 DL.....1605 total
    Best Gym Lifts(Raw w/wraps)
    515 SQ 302.5 BE 585 DL

  23. #22
    Senior Member deeder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Rodgers View Post
    One meet- guy was redlighted on a perfect squat because the head judge saw some of his boxer shorts sticking out of his squat suit leg. This was a small, state meet(not a big national or world event). That is ridiculous! Same meet I saw numerous lifters dunk squats and just get reds. No reason.


    How can you not have a press call? That is one of the dumbest things. Everyone has to guess when to press. I see some guys sit there for 3 seconds while others barely stop. There should always be a command.

    There really is nothing I like about the fed, that's just my opinion and I'm happy to not lift in it.
    Briefs only in the IPF. No boxer shorts allowed! As for the press command, we have one now! It's a new rule this year.

    I'm not trying to say you should or shouldn't lift in the IPF, I don't know much about other federations other than the difference in gear so these types of conversations always interest me.
    Full Powerlifting
    Squat - 595lbs -- 270kg -- Dec. 31, '09 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Bench - 374lbs -- 170kg -- Dec 20, '08 (@100kg class)
    Dead - 589lbs -- 267.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Total: 1537lbs -- 697.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)
    Bench Only -- 358lbs -- 162.5kg -- Nov. 25, '07 (Provincial Record @ 90kg class)
    Bench Only -- 376lbs -- 171kg -- Jan. 26, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)

  24. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by wannabepua View Post
    i dont believe that you are not a believer in west side, everyone should be, it works, as proven time and time again by some of the strongest in the country.
    I agree

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Rodgers View Post
    In due time you will realize that with all the other heavy lifting, pulling heavy often will hinder gains. I have to make myself not pull heavy because I love it. I could pull heavy 2-3 times per week, but it's no the optimal thing.
    Oh yeah, I hear ya....I'm already crippled at 24.

    Quote Originally Posted by wannabepua View Post
    :withstupi
    :withstupi

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Rodgers View Post
    :withstupi
    :withstupi

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Rodgers View Post
    IPF!

    I'm sorry to hear that.
    I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sidior View Post
    box squatting
    Do you guys realize that box squatting also has a large carry-over to your deadlift?? This is one of the reasons I don't pull every week. My box squat stance is the same width as my deadlift stance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sidior View Post
    Also I plan to compete in the IPF, its all we have around here lol.
    Go and compete in the US like I did. All it took was 1 meet in the US, and I'll never eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeever go back to the IPF....never......ever.....never.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Rodgers View Post
    That sounds right. The IPF/USAPL just isn't very lifter friendly. The first few meets I did just left a bad taste in my mouth. The meets I do now I have sooo much more fun at. I'd rather have fun and bomb out than go to a IPF/USAPL meet and watch lifters who trained their ass off get robbed over and over by ridiculous judging.

    That's just my opinion. You Canada guy's are screwed, lol.
    OH HELLS YEAH!!! I couldn't agree more CR. This is why I take the time to cross the border and compete.

    Quote Originally Posted by deeder View Post
    What do you mean by ridiculous judging?
    Just wait dude.....you'll see.

  25. #24
    Super Human kingkrs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    One thing I would caution the novice about when DLing, and especially if they are going to try a "speed DL session", make absolutely sure that you are not jerking the bar off the floor and going loosey-goosey after you get some momentum w. the weight.
    Well put. Yes do not yank or jerk the bar. Problems will result.tuttut
    The difference between the freaks and the flock is the ****ing fork!
    You wanna gain weight? Then it's time to squat!

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