The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Wannabebig Member
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    Please Dont Flame Me

    I get flammed on other forum because of this topic, I dont know why. Please dont flame me.


    I was wondering if any of you guys ever delt with a person with a body type that is both endomorph and ectomorph, such as myself (skinny arms and legs, but a fat face and stomach).

    In my case I'm 5'7 19 y/o male 140lbs at the moment with a very slow matabolism. But with the ability of gaining muscle like an ectomorph (little to none). One pass bulk for instance I would put on 5-6lbs of fat per pound of muscle on a clean bulk (I gained 3lbs of muscle in 12 weeks and almost 30lbs of fat. Which is very bad, On a clean bulk! you can see the ecto and endo in the numbers

    My diet is good, I helped two guys get huge (muscle weight) with my diets. Sadly I stayed the same.

    So I was wondering if any of you guys have any advice on how to get around such opposing forces. Right now Im cutting to get down to single digits since I refuse to bulk again unless I start out at 7%


    I know I'm light at 140lbs but im aorund 15%-17% body fat, it would be unwise for me to bulk at a bodyfat like that. Especially with my low motabolism and genetics to gain little muscle.

    Im not a newbie though I have been lifting for 5 years seriously, I did alot of powerlifting/ Bodybuilding in 6 week cycles and have the highest bench press in my weightclass in school. And I was the diet expert in my school instead of the trainer.

    Normally someone would post "your cutting at 140lbs? GO EAT BIG AND LIFT HEAVY"

    Please dont do that, It doesnt work in my case as you can see from my post.

    Im trying to post alot of info because I dont want flamming.
    Last edited by Arcane1337; 05-01-2007 at 07:24 PM.

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  3. #2
    The Body Never Lies Nosaj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcane1337 View Post
    I get flammed on other forum because of this topic, I dont know why. Please dont flame me.


    I was wondering if any of you guys ever delt with a person with a body type that is both endomorph and ectomorph, such as myself (skinny arms and legs, but a fat face and stomach).

    In my case I'm 5'7 19 y/o male 140lbs at the moment with a very slow matabolism. But with the ability of gaining muscle like an ectomorph (little to none). One pass bulk for instance I would put on 5-6lbs of fat per pound of muscle on a clean bulk (I gained 3lbs of muscle in 12 weeks and almost 30lbs of fat. Which is very bad, On a clean bulk! you can see the ecto and endo in the numbers

    My diet is good, I helped two guys get huge (muscle weight) with my diets. Sadly I stayed the same.

    So I was wondering if any of you guys have any advice on how to get around such opposing forces. Right now Im cutting to get down to single digits since I refuse to bulk again unless I start out at 7%


    I know I'm light at 140lbs but im aorund 15%-17% body fat, it would be unwise for me to bulk at a bodyfat like that. Especially with my low motabolism and genetics to gain little muscle.

    Im not a newbie though I have been lifting for 5 years seriously, I did alot of powerlifting/ Bodybuilding in 6 week cycles and have the highest bench press in my weightclass in school. And I was the diet expert in my school instead of the trainer.

    Normally someone would post "your cutting at 140lbs? GO EAT BIG AND LIFT HEAVY"

    Please dont do that, It doesnt work in my case as you can see from my post.

    Im trying to post alot of info because I dont want flamming.
    Damn bro, 5lbs of muscle and 30lbs of fat? That's some serious partitioning issues. You say your diet is clean, post it up on www.fitday.com for a week, go from there.
    Scars are tatoos with better stories.

  4. #3
    DeaTH BeFoRe WeaKNeSs sCaRz*Of*PaiN's Avatar
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    Have you had your thyroid checked? I would suggest getting that tested immediately for your metabolism. Post your diet and your routine.

    Are you tracking your calories? How did you go about your process of gaining weight when you gained "30 pounds of fat and 3 pounds of muscle"? What did you do?

    And like Nosaj suggested, sign up for a free account on www.fitday.com and start tracking EVERYTHING you eat starting tomorrow. Do this for seven days and we'll have a look at your average diet. You can post a link directly to your FitDay journal from that site. Let's find out the problem here so we can help you.
    Last edited by sCaRz*Of*PaiN; 05-01-2007 at 07:29 PM.
    "The only easy day was yesterday."

  5. #4
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    I've got a similar body type. Started out at 153lbs back in Nov 2005. Joined here in Feb 06 and decided to bulk, and of course made squat and deadlift staples of my routine. I'm at 183lbs now and still bulking. Still have a gut, but my chest, arms and legs are much bigger so I look more proportionate (is that a word lol?). You said you bulked before but you gained a lot of fat? Who cares? Just get the rest of you bigger. You can eventually cut and get rid of the excess fat.
    31 years old
    5'8", 183lbs
    Current PR's:
    Bench 225lbs x 4
    Squat 255lbs x 3
    Deadlift 315lbs x 3

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcane1337 View Post
    I get flammed on other forum because of this topic, I dont know why. Please dont flame me.


    I was wondering if any of you guys ever delt with a person with a body type that is both endomorph and ectomorph, such as myself (skinny arms and legs, but a fat face and stomach).

    In my case I'm 5'7 19 y/o male 140lbs at the moment with a very slow matabolism. But with the ability of gaining muscle like an ectomorph (little to none). One pass bulk for instance I would put on 5-6lbs of fat per pound of muscle on a clean bulk (I gained 3lbs of muscle in 12 weeks and almost 30lbs of fat. Which is very bad, (1) On a clean bulk! you can see the ecto and endo in the numbers

    My diet is good, I helped two guys get huge (muscle weight) with my diets. (2) Sadly I stayed the same.

    So I was wondering if any of you guys have any advice on how to get around such opposing forces. Right now Im cutting to get down to single digits since I refuse to bulk again unless I start out at 7%


    (3) I know I'm light at 140lbs but im aorund 15%-17% body fat, it would be unwise for me to bulk at a bodyfat like that. Especially with my low motabolism and genetics to gain little muscle.

    Im not a newbie though I have been lifting for 5 years seriously, I did alot of powerlifting/ Bodybuilding in 6 week cycles and have the highest bench press in my weightclass in school. And I was the diet expert in my school instead of the trainer.

    Normally someone would post "your cutting at 140lbs? GO EAT BIG AND LIFT HEAVY"

    (4) Please dont do that, It doesnt work in my case as you can see from my post.

    Im trying to post alot of info because I dont want flamming.

    (numbers are mine)

    (I just want to say that I am NOT flaming you, even if I sound a little blunt.)

    1. First off it wasn't a clean bulk if you gained 30 lbs of fat in only 12 weeks. Either that or you were overeating.

    2. Because a diet works for a couple of other people does not automatically make it a good diet or mean it will work for you.

    3. At 140 and 5'7" you shouldn't be cutting if you want to get big and strong.


    4. Gaining weight is a result of eating. Gaining fat is a result of overeating/not exercising correctly.

    Post your diet and routine here. Then we can give more accurate advice.

  7. #6
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    Thanks for the reply guys. I did quite a few bulks, but here is one of my bulk diets.

    meal one
    5 egg whites
    2 whole eggs
    1 cup Oatmeal
    1 medium sized apple
    cals: 594


    meal two
    7 oz chicken breast
    1 cup Oatmeal
    cals: 517

    meal 3
    6 oz tuna
    4 slices wheat. bread
    cals: 626

    meal 4 (post workout shake)
    45 Grms dextrose
    45 Grms maltodextrine
    46 grams of Whey
    cals: 580

    meal 5
    1 Cup of Oatmeal
    2 turkey Burgers
    1 Large Sweat Potato
    cals: 710

    meal 6
    1 Cup Cottage Cheese
    2 or 3:1 ratio N3-N6 EFA'S--2 table spoons
    cals: 470

    total: 3497 cals

    I would switch up some thing sometimes like brown rice, chicken, olive oil and greens for meal 5 and peanut butter instead of efa's foe meal six. Brown rice instead of wheat bread. Oat and whey shake. You get the idea. also, all of the fat i gain goes to my face and stomach, my legs are always cut.

    My training routine is almost never the same for more than 2 weeks, I change things up all the time. But for example a routine of mine would be:

    Monday: Chest, Biceps
    Tuesday: Legs, Calves, Triceps
    Wednesday: Back
    Thursday: Rest day
    Friday: Shoulders, Forearms
    Weekend: Rest

    Back

    Wide Grip pulldowns to the front:
    4 sets of 8 repetitions
    2 set of 8 repetitions

    T-bar rows:
    4 sets going down (12, 10, 8, 6 repetitions)
    1 set of 8 repetitions

    Bent-over barbell rows:
    3 sets of 9 repetitions

    One-arm dumbbell rows:
    3 sets of 10 repetitions

    Hyperextensions (weighted):
    4 sets of 12 repetitions

    Abdomen

    Hanging leg raises
    4 sets of 8 repetitions

    Weighted Crunches
    4 sets of 8 repetitions





    Deltoids

    Seated Military Barbell Press:
    4 sets going down (10, 8, 6, 6 repetitions)

    Dumbbell Front Raises:
    2 sets of 8 repetitions
    2 sets of 8 repetitions

    One-Arm Dumbbell Laterals:
    4 sets of 8 repetitions

    Bent-Over Laterals (prone):
    4 sets of 8 repetitions

    Reverse Pec Deck Flys:
    3 sets of 8 repetitions
    1 set of 8 repetitions

    Forearms

    Dumbbell Wrist Curls (resting on a bench):
    4 sets of 10 repetitions

    barbell Reverse Wrist Curls (resting on a bench):
    2 sets of 10 repetitions
    2 sets of 8 repetitions




    Chest

    Flat Bench Press:
    1 set of 8 repetitions
    1 set of 5 repetitions
    1 set of 8 repetitions
    1 set of 6 repetitions
    1 set of 8 repetitions

    Incline Bench Press:
    1 set of 8 repetitions
    1 set of 6 repetitions
    1 set of 8 repetitions

    Flat Dumbbell Flys:
    3 sets of 8 repetitions

    Cable flys:
    1 set of 8 repetitions
    3 sets of 8 repetitions

    Bicep

    Standing Barbell Curls
    1 set of 8 repetitions
    1 set of 8 repetitions
    1 set of 8 repetitions
    1 set of 8 repetitions
    1 set of 8 repetitions

    High Cable Pulley Curls
    2 sets of 10 repetitions
    1 set of 10 repetitions
    1 set of 10 repetitions
    1 set of 10 repetitions (8 second hard peak contractions until failure)

    3 sets of cable 21s



    Quadriceps and Hamstrings

    Squats:
    1 set of 8 repetitions
    1 set of 6 repetitions
    2 sets of 8 repetitions

    Leg Press Machine:
    4 sets of 8 repetitions

    Leg Curls:
    2 sets of 9 repetitions
    2 sets of 9 repetitions
    1 set of 5 repetitions

    Calves

    Seated Calve Raises (Machine):
    4 sets of 8 repetitions

    Triceps

    Close-Grip benchpress:
    3 sets of 8 repetitions
    1 set of 6 repetitions

    Incline overhead cable extensions
    4 sets of 8 repetitions

    seated high-pulley concentration extension
    4 sets of 10 repetitions

  8. #7
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    No one is here to flame you. But if you have seriously lifted for the last five years and are at 140 pounds, it seems to me that perhaps you have a serious problem that is beyond simple diet and exercise.

    My advice is to talk to a doctor and dietician immediately. They may have you keep a journal for a few months to track everything you eat and do. Do what you have to do to make the changes you want to make. Good luck.

  9. #8
    Senior Member BFGUITAR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Decker87 View Post
    No one is here to flame you. But if you have seriously lifted for the last five years and are at 140 pounds, it seems to me that perhaps you have a serious problem that is beyond simple diet and exercise.

    My advice is to talk to a doctor and dietician immediately. They may have you keep a journal for a few months to track everything you eat and do. Do what you have to do to make the changes you want to make. Good luck.
    He used to powerlift, he probably wanted to maintain a certain weight.

  10. #9
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    oh no, I want to be as big as how arnold was in the 70's I bulked up to 170lbs! but stoped cuz I was to fat

    I should go check my thyroid
    Last edited by Arcane1337; 05-01-2007 at 08:48 PM.

  11. #10
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    Hmm...your diet seems okay. You may be overeating since you are gaining a lot of fat. You could try eliminating 1 meal (400-500 calories) and track your progress.


    Your routine needs a complete overhaul though.

    1. BACK:

    You have no deadlifts for back. Drop the hyperextensions, DB rows and wide grips. Not only are these not mass and strength builders, wide grips are potentially dangerous to your shoulders because of the angle. Put deadlifts as the first exercise for your back. Put T-bar rows second. The BO barbell rows are optional.

    2. DELTOIDS:

    You have FAR too much work for shoulders. Your shoulders are involved in almost every back and chest exercise you do. So they get a LOT of indirect work. To throw in 20 sets on top of that is overkill. The goal is to train the muscle not grind it into oblivion. Drop the front raises, laterals and reverse pec decks. Don't focus on small muscle groups when the goals are size and strength.

    3. FOREARMS:

    Drop the forearm work. Again no need to specialize on small muscle groups. They will be worked with heavy chest and back movements anyway.

    4. CHEST:

    Too much chest work. Drop the incline bench and flyes. Any chest exercise works the whole muscle.

    5. BICEPS:

    Drop all cable work. Once again it's overkill and counter-productive.

    6. LEGS:

    Drop leg curls and the leg press.


    7. TRICEPS:

    Drop the last two exercises for triceps. (See biceps)


    By now you are probably thinking "Well Songsangnim, what do you know about my situation?"

    More than you think. I used to be in the exact same situation you were (lean but soft stomach and skinny arms and legs) Also I was your exact weight (140 lbs) but at a height of 6'2" so even worse off than you because I had more area to fill out. Now I'm 210 and have quadrupled pretty much all the weight I used to lift before.
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 05-02-2007 at 05:20 AM.

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcane1337 View Post
    oh no, I want to be as big as how arnold was in the 70's

    You ARE joking right?

    Arnold had elite genetics and was on steroids as well. You might want to consider setting your goals a tad lower.

  13. #12
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    Thanks dude, I'll give it a shot. So I was overeating and over training? Didnt know I was overtraining, in powerlifitng I would do like 10 sets on bench.

    Also, I use arnold's as a measure stick against my own. I know I wont be as big as him, I dont know how to explain it
    Last edited by Arcane1337; 05-01-2007 at 09:12 PM.

  14. #13
    The Body Never Lies Nosaj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcane1337 View Post
    So I was overeating and over training? Didnt know I was overtraining, in powerlifitng I would do like 10 sets on bench.
    With that kind of fat gain and lack of mass building, I'd say that's a fair guess, yes. In bodybuilding, less is more in almost all senses of the statement. Less weight for more reps (8-12 range at most) and better form (squeeze it til' it burns!). Less sets than more (3 sets, 4 MAX). Less exercises (2 per bodypart, 3 MAX). The goal is to stimulate growth through hypertrophy, not win an award for the most taxing and brutal workout known to man. Keep reading, asking questions, learning. It's a lifetime process.
    Scars are tatoos with better stories.

  15. #14
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    I wasnt aware it has to be that low in sets and exercises, good stuff. How about the rest periods, I usually do 3-5 minutes.

    Regardless Im going to get down to 130lbs, I have 122lbm (lean body mass) then Im going to bulk hard and do what you guys said.I would have the starved bruce lee look at 130lbs, but when I bulk I can afford to gain a 7% increase in fat and be 13%. I use to bulk at around 17%-18% and end up with, about 30%
    Last edited by Arcane1337; 05-01-2007 at 09:37 PM.

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcane1337 View Post
    Thanks dude, I'll give it a shot. So I was overeating and over training? Didnt know I was overtraining, in powerlifitng I would do like 10 sets on bench.
    You're welcome. One final thing. I probably don't have to tell you this (as you likely know this already ) but on the exercises you have left, you must go hard and heavy for a full ROM and with good form. Simply remember this maxim. You get out what you put in or G=E (gains equals effort.)

    Good luck!

  17. #16
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    I don't see how at 140 and consuming 3500 calories you're not able to gain weight? If what you posted is more or less your regular diet and you do lift regularly or even semi regularly, then you should be MUCH heavier by now.

    What are your big three numbers? Squats, Deadlift, and Bench? I've never heard of anyone like you to be honest. Everyone around me gains weight really easily, yours truly included.

  18. #17
    DeaTH BeFoRe WeaKNeSs sCaRz*Of*PaiN's Avatar
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    I don't see how at 140 and consuming 3500 calories you're not able to gain weight?
    Because everyone's caloric needs are different.
    "The only easy day was yesterday."

  19. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by sCaRz*Of*PaiN View Post
    Because everyone's caloric needs are different.
    Can you explain that a little further?

    If he's naturally skinny and he's consuming 3500 calories on a bulk, which is a lot more than what I consume just for maintenance, then where do those calories go if it's not into the body?

    Assuming that he's not going to the bathroom a lot and what to me doesn't sound like overtraining, then how is it that he can't pack on more weight by now?

  20. #19
    Eat Chicken Chris686's Avatar
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    Rule of thumb:

    If it takes 20 inches of screen to post your entire routine, you're doing too much.

    What Scars is saying (And it seems pretty obvious to me) is that everyone's caloric needs are different.
    One guy may gain off 3000 calories, but the other may need 4000.

    The reasons behind this are the person's metabolic rate and activity levels.

    Obviously someone who does construction 5 days a week is going to need more calories than someone who sits at a desk 40 hours a week.
    Last edited by Chris686; 05-02-2007 at 12:48 AM.
    Forever Goal: Strength

    Weightlifting sucks. I just like to lift heavy things.

  21. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris686 View Post
    Rule of thumb:

    If it takes 20 inches of screen to post your entire routine, you're doing too much.

    What Scars is saying (And it seems pretty obvious to me) is that everyone's caloric needs are different.
    One guy may gain off 3000 calories, but the other may need 4000.

    The reasons behind this are the person's metabolic rate and activity levels.

    Obviously someone who does construction 5 days a week is going to need more calories than someone who sits at a desk 40 hours a week.
    That's what I am saying. Arcane already said that he has a slow metabolism and he hasn't mentioned anything to lead me to believe that his activity levels are burning those excess calories, so where does it all go?

  22. #21
    Senior Member Mr. D's Avatar
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    i dont think he said he wasnt gaining at 3500 cals. He said he was gaining not enough muscle and too much fat. 3500 cals seems to be way overkill for a 140lber with slow metabolism. He should be able to bulk ~2500 cals. And considering his partitioning isnt great, he might have to do a slow bulk at like 10% over maintence.

  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. D View Post
    i dont think he said he wasnt gaining at 3500 cals. He said he was gaining not enough muscle and too much fat. 3500 cals seems to be way overkill for a 140lber with slow metabolism. He should be able to bulk ~2500 cals. And considering his partitioning isnt great, he might have to do a slow bulk at like 10% over maintence.
    So despite the fact that he bulks on a very clean diet, his body is unable to convert it into a favorable muscle:fat ratio.

    Am I the only one who thinks there is something fundamentally wrong. It just seems like we're not getting the entire story.

    And I don't think 3500 is overkill because if he can do it then he should do it. A lot of people here struggle to eat enough, so if he's able to stuff down 3500 mostly clean calories then that is something to be desired not discouraged.

    There is just something about him processing the calories into a 1:6 muscle:fat ratio that doesn't make sense.

    The only thing I can fathom is if his body is converting the calories into fat, which is an oddity because A)he lifts a lot B)his diet is very clean and C)is it scientifically possible for the body to convert protein and carbs into mostly fat? I'm not an expert so I apologize in advance.
    Last edited by faithless; 05-02-2007 at 01:49 AM.

  24. #23
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    your cutting at 140lbs? GO EAT BIG AND LIFT HEAVY

  25. #24
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    I agree with faithless, I think until we get the whole story from a medical doctor's side, this problem may be beyond the typical scope of WBB.

  26. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by faithless View Post
    So despite the fact that he bulks on a very clean diet, his body is unable to convert it into a favorable muscle:fat ratio.

    Am I the only one who thinks there is something fundamentally wrong. It just seems like we're not getting the entire story.

    (1) And I don't think 3500 is overkill because if he can do it then he should do it. A lot of people here struggle to eat enough, so if he's able to stuff down 3500 mostly clean calories then that is something to be desired not discouraged.

    (2) There is just something about him processing the calories into a 1:6 muscle:fat ratio that doesn't make sense.

    (3) The only thing I can fathom is if his body is converting the calories into fat, which is an oddity because A)he lifts a lot B)his diet is very clean and C)is it scientifically possible for the body to convert protein and carbs into mostly fat? I'm not an expert so I apologize in advance.
    (numbers are mine)

    1. Why? This is poor reasoning. I gain on about 2800 calories, but I am more than capable of slamming down in excess of 3000. However I do not do that since I would gain mostly fat and not muscle. What other people struggle to do has absolutely no bearing on what the OP should do. Just because he can eat 3500 calories is not ANY kind of reason why he should. He already pointed out that he gains too much fat on that.

    2. Everyone's body is different. Some people partition more muscle than fat, some people more fat than muscle. It depends on a number of variables. If the OP is overeating a lot, then the fat gain is going to be far higher than the muscle gain.


    3. Why ever not? The body stores ALL unused calories as fat. It does NOT matter whether they come from protein, fat, or carbs. These calories don't just disappear. They have to go somewhere and if not used to meet the energy needs of the body they are stored as fat, which is happening in the case of the OP.
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 05-02-2007 at 05:34 AM.

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