The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

It’s no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Let's weightlift! backdraft005's Avatar
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    I'm done w/ Powercleans, need alter.

    I can sqaut 275, bench 235, deadlift 300, mil press 135 but when it comes to powercleans I can only do them properly at very low weights. Sooo...

    Screw powerclean. I know its part of SS but I'm done with them, before I hurt myself trying to do that ******ed technique.

    So throw me some alternatives. this is non negotiable, as powercleans sap all the enjoyment i get out of weightlifting!
    Stats:
    5'8"
    240lbs
    Just started SS:
    Bench: 235 (as of 8/7/09)
    Squat:275 (as of 8/11/09)
    Military Press: 135 (as of 8/12/09)
    Deadlift: 300 (as of 8/12/09)
    PowerClean: not doing anymore

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  3. #2
    Senior Member tmor6's Avatar
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    No powercleans? ...

    Grab some 15 pound dumbells, move to within 3 inches of the mirror, and curl 100 times grunting/moaning/screaming. Repeat
    6'1"/203 (down 12 pounds since 5/2012)
    B: 410
    S: 480
    D: 575
    2-mile run: 13:23

  4. #3
    Senior Member tmor6's Avatar
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    Just kidding man, I'm actually not sure how to best replace powercleans. I'm sure someone else will have some suggestions...are you sure you don't just want to decrease the weight? IMO powercleans are pretty fricken fun, and a great full body effort.
    6'1"/203 (down 12 pounds since 5/2012)
    B: 410
    S: 480
    D: 575
    2-mile run: 13:23

  5. #4
    Let's weightlift! backdraft005's Avatar
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    yeah but just cant do them at higher weights? they contribute nothing at such low weights. and whats the point of them if i cant move forward doing them? beside i look like an ******* when i fail them in gym. so i'd rather do something else.
    Stats:
    5'8"
    240lbs
    Just started SS:
    Bench: 235 (as of 8/7/09)
    Squat:275 (as of 8/11/09)
    Military Press: 135 (as of 8/12/09)
    Deadlift: 300 (as of 8/12/09)
    PowerClean: not doing anymore

  6. #5
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    Barbell bent-over rows
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  7. #6
    Let's weightlift! backdraft005's Avatar
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    off road, i know i asked you that a while ago, ill give it a try. but barbell bent over rows, do they work all the same muscles as powercleans?
    Stats:
    5'8"
    240lbs
    Just started SS:
    Bench: 235 (as of 8/7/09)
    Squat:275 (as of 8/11/09)
    Military Press: 135 (as of 8/12/09)
    Deadlift: 300 (as of 8/12/09)
    PowerClean: not doing anymore

  8. #7
    Senior Member jp2's Avatar
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    why not just do the cleans with weight you can handle?

  9. #8
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by backdraft005 View Post
    barbell bent over rows, do they work all the same muscles as powercleans?

    With squats, deads, and rows...you will be hitting it just fine.

    But that's just my opinion, while others swear by the cleans.
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  10. #9
    Let's weightlift! backdraft005's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp2 View Post
    why not just do the cleans with weight you can handle?
    cause it looks and feels ridiculous lifting such small weights.
    Stats:
    5'8"
    240lbs
    Just started SS:
    Bench: 235 (as of 8/7/09)
    Squat:275 (as of 8/11/09)
    Military Press: 135 (as of 8/12/09)
    Deadlift: 300 (as of 8/12/09)
    PowerClean: not doing anymore

  11. #10
    Senior Member
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    I can only clean a little weight too, in order to keep my form solid, and be explosive. Even if I add 5 pounds it really messes it up. I have been cleaning 145 for like 4-5 weeks straight now. I'll probably just stay around there the whole time Im doing SS. I like power cleans, but after a while they are kind of boring, and on Friday I hit myself on the chin pretty hard while doing them.

  12. #11
    Senior Member BFGUITAR's Avatar
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    Bent over rows instead of cleans. I did that when I did SS. I would rather not even train cleans unless I had someone teach them to me.
    Last edited by BFGUITAR; 08-16-2009 at 10:48 AM.
    Brad08 has some insight for people who don't understand... anything.
    This is so ****ing ******ed it's almost beyond belief. So, if you eat 3k, you will automatically gain 3k worth of fat or muscle? Incredible. And here I am eating all this food, yet maintaining my weight. Fascinating.

    You're one of those pussies that counts his almonds I bet.

  13. #12
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    Also I know in SS it says that it helps with your deadlift. I think it does to some extent, but I have been doing 135 and 145 for practically the entire time I've been cleaning and my deadlift has been going up. So it doesn't really matter about weight, just keep it explosive. Thats why Rippetoe has you do 5 sets 3 reps each.

  14. #13
    Big Swinging Dick dxiw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmor6 View Post
    No powercleans? ...

    Grab some 15 pound dumbells, move to within 3 inches of the mirror, and curl 100 times grunting/moaning/screaming. Repeat
    GUN SHOW
    Last edited by dxiw; 08-16-2009 at 12:51 PM.

    225lb @ 17% bodyfat, currently cutting
    Current lifts while cutting (all raw): bench 275x4, squat 365x8
    Estimated current maxes: 300 bench / 450 dead / 450 squat
    Competition / Gym PRs (from March 08)
    Bench: 325 raw / 385 loose shirt
    Deadlift: 450 raw ADFPF 04/26/08
    Squat: 405 raw

  15. #14
    Senior Member Future's Avatar
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    Cleans are very overrated like rack deads. Do some romanians, zurchers and neutrsl grip chins.

  16. #15
    My own personal trainer dumbbell's Avatar
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    I don't get it. Isn't it just like every other lift. You start with a light weight to learn proper technique and steadily increase the weight as you get stronger/better at that lift. Why would you care what the number of pounds is? As long as you are progressing (adding weight) who cares what that number is. Everyone starts somewhere.
    Jason

    It is currently a fad, at this writing, for boys to think they need a "six pack", although most of them don't have an ice chest to put it in.
    -Mark Rippetoe

  17. #16
    My own personal trainer dumbbell's Avatar
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    Quote from Rip:

    "No it is not acceptable to forego the cleans because they are hard and a beginner is skinny. Learning and doing the power clean is how we stop being beginners."
    Jason

    It is currently a fad, at this writing, for boys to think they need a "six pack", although most of them don't have an ice chest to put it in.
    -Mark Rippetoe

  18. #17
    My own personal trainer dumbbell's Avatar
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    More:

    "Usually, people just feel intimidated by anything that resembles a technical exercise and just would rather not do them. This is just being a p***y, and sets a bad precedent for the management of both training and life. I think the Starting Strength includes an understandable method for learning to power clean, and just in case it's not simple enough I rewrote it for the new book so that it is even simpler. You don't really need bumper plates to do them if you don't have access, so that doesn't wash either. They are in the program because an explosive movement is a valuable contribution to power production, and they make deadlifts get stronger faster.

    Okay, you don't need a coach to learn power cleans, because we fixed things up so that you can learn them out of the book. And what exactly is the downside of trying to learn them and failing? Firing squad? The f*****g bodybuilders making fun of you from the safety of the dumbbell rack? Loss of wages? Just try them before you decide you can't learn them without a coach."

    "My opinion about barbell rows is as follows: f**k barbell rows. Really. F**k them. Stop wasting time worrying about barbell rows and get your deadlift up to 500. By then you'll have your own opinion and you won't have to worry about mine."
    Jason

    It is currently a fad, at this writing, for boys to think they need a "six pack", although most of them don't have an ice chest to put it in.
    -Mark Rippetoe

  19. #18
    Undead Evil He-Man KarlMarx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dumbbell View Post
    More:

    "Usually, people just feel intimidated by anything that resembles a technical exercise and just would rather not do them. This is just being a p***y, and sets a bad precedent for the management of both training and life. I think the Starting Strength includes an understandable method for learning to power clean, and just in case it's not simple enough I rewrote it for the new book so that it is even simpler. You don't really need bumper plates to do them if you don't have access, so that doesn't wash either. They are in the program because an explosive movement is a valuable contribution to power production, and they make deadlifts get stronger faster.

    Okay, you don't need a coach to learn power cleans, because we fixed things up so that you can learn them out of the book. And what exactly is the downside of trying to learn them and failing? Firing squad? The f*****g bodybuilders making fun of you from the safety of the dumbbell rack? Loss of wages? Just try them before you decide you can't learn them without a coach."

    "My opinion about barbell rows is as follows: f**k barbell rows. Really. F**k them. Stop wasting time worrying about barbell rows and get your deadlift up to 500. By then you'll have your own opinion and you won't have to worry about mine."
    Haha. Love it! Love power cleans, cleans, hang power cleans, one handed db cleans, etc....--love them too!

    Its hard at first to clean but you just gotta keep at it. I personally like having an exercise where I focus on technique mixed in with the other ones where its just 'how much can I do?'--it breaks things up and keeps it interesting.

  20. #19
    Go Bears Pete22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dumbbell View Post
    "My opinion about barbell rows is as follows: f**k barbell rows. Really. F**k them. Stop wasting time worrying about barbell rows and get your deadlift up to 500. By then you'll have your own opinion and you won't have to worry about mine."
    Ahahahaha! That's priceless.
    My Training Log

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  21. #20
    Airsofter & Paintballer
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    Can somebody find some good articles or videos for powerclean technique? I'm in pretty much the same position. I've looked around, but I still feel my powercleaning technique at the moment is pretty crappy. And I w/o at home so finding a trainer or someone is a no-go.
    Quote Originally Posted by Off Road View Post
    I've been bulking for about 10 years
    Quote Originally Posted by backseatwitme13 View Post
    so how long do you cut?
    Quote Originally Posted by Off Road View Post
    What's a cut?

  22. #21
    Moderator Off Road's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dumbbell View Post
    "Usually, people just feel intimidated by anything that resembles a technical exercise and just would rather not do them. This is just being a p***y, and sets a bad precedent for the management of both training and life."
    Dr Ken has this to say:

    "The "power clean", while valuable for some purposes, is not necessary for the development of the muscles in question, and due to the speed of movement it places unnecessary demands on the connective tissue of the involved bodyparts."

    It would be awsome to hear Rip and Dr. Ken get into this discussion. I think the world would split apart and swallow us whole
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  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Off Road View Post
    Dr Ken has this to say:

    "The "power clean", while valuable for some purposes, is not necessary for the development of the muscles in question, and due to the speed of movement it places unnecessary demands on the connective tissue of the involved bodyparts."

    It would be awsome to hear Rip and Dr. Ken get into this discussion. I think the world would split apart and swallow us whole
    This is where you'd lose Rip, as he would say we clean to build a stronger clean (and whatever else it carries over to, perhaps primarily the deadlift), not to develop any particular muscles. The rest is just silly.

    But Rip was pretty highly influenced by Starr, who considered power cleans to be the absolute most important lift anybody could do (Rip would say it's the squat, I believe), so I doubt he'd accept any argument on the subject.
    Last edited by Kastro; 08-16-2009 at 09:49 PM.

  24. #23
    Bodybuilding Mythbuster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Off Road View Post
    Dr Ken has this to say:

    "The "power clean", while valuable for some purposes, is not necessary for the development of the muscles in question, and due to the speed of movement it places unnecessary demands on the connective tissue of the involved bodyparts."

    It would be awsome to hear Rip and Dr. Ken get into this discussion. I think the world would split apart and swallow us whole
    I'm with Dr. Ken on this one.
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 08-17-2009 at 12:11 AM.

  25. #24
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    Clean technique can be fuond in the Texas Method Sticky. There is so much there... check it out.

    OP: Just learn to clean. Keep your ego in check with weight and youll be fine.

    In my experience, practicing the clean was a great tool. I saw many increases in my athletic performance while playing rugby. Then I fully committed to Oly WL and my athletic performance blew up! I began to routinely get MVP and dominated both the sprints across the pitch and dominated the scrums and rucks. My box jump went up 10'' in 6 weeks too... the only thing I changed is practicing the full clean and snatch.
    Last edited by ZenMonkey; 08-17-2009 at 10:21 AM.
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