The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
Latest Article

The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

It’s no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
More Recent Articles
Contrast Training for Size
By: Lee Boyce
An Interview with Marianne Kane of Girls Gone Strong
By: Jordan Syatt
What Supplements Should I be Taking? By: Jay Wainwright
Bench Like a Girl By: Julia Ladewski
Some Thoughts on Building a Big Pull By: Christopher Mason

Facebook Join Facebook Group       Twitter Follow on Twitter       rss Subscribe via RSS
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 29

Thread: Power Clean

  1. #1
    Scorpion32
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    110

    Power Clean

    I was on another site dealing with sports specific(football). The question was asked why the power clean isn't used in very many programs at any level any more? It is a great lift and I can't even think of why I don't use it in my offseason, other then I don't see anybody else use it. We do high pulls and hang clean but not power. Just wanted to pick peoples brains on this topic.

  2.    Support Wannabebig and use AtLarge Nutrition Supplements!


  3. #2
    Scorpion32
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    110
    To Clean Or Not To Clean,
    That Is The Question?
    Bill Hrabak
    Head Football Coach
    Cardinal Stritch High School-Oregon, Ohio

    In 1984, when I was an assistant football coach in Cleveland, a friend of mine, Gary Wroblewski, was named the strength coach at Columbia University. While Wroblewski was at Columbia, who would two years later become the strength coach for the Cleveland Browns, he had the opportunity to travel to the then U.S.S.R. and study the Soviets strength and conditioning programs. When Wrobo’s return he told me how he had expected to see all of these new, modern, high tech training techniques but rather he came back with that an old and sometimes avoided(by U.S. athletes) exercise, power cleans, as the main dish on the soviet training menu. Wrobo said that Soviet trainers insisted that "if the soviet athletes could perform only one exercise, it would be power cleans."

    When I had became a head football coach in 1987, I utilized a conglomeration of training ideas from the hundreds of different programs that I had come in contact with over the years, to start my schools weight program. However, despite what Wrobo had told me about power cleans years prior, they were still not a high priority for my athletes. That was until the spring of 1997 when I attended a BFS strength clinic at Maumee High School. Wrobolewski’s speech about power cleans from 13 years before was reiterated by BFS speaker and director Dr. Greg Sheppard. Dr. Sheppard praised cleans as the most sports effective, multi jointed lift that an athlete could do to help enhance his performance. Dr. Sheppard referred to the safety fears many coaches have about doing power cleans as part of their core program, relates to lack of supervision while athletes lift and a lack of knowledge on how to teach proper cleaning form. After watching Dr. Sheppard in action during the rest of the clinic, I returned to my school promising myself, not only will cleans be part of our weight training program, they will become the most important part of our program.

    In the off season, we do power cleans on Mondays & Thursdays. We also tell our athletes that if their short on work out time, they will always do cleans first, because they are our most important lift. Here’s a look at our 4 week reps and sets cycle looks like:

    Week 1

    3 sets, 5-3-1 reps, light weight for form.

    Week 2

    3 sets, 3-3-3 reps, 75% of max

    Week 3

    3 sets, 4-4-2 reps, 70% of max

    Week 4

    5 sets, 1-1-1-1-1, 85-90%

    Some power clean rules we adhere to are:

    1) We rarely max out on cleans maybe twice a year maximum.

    2) We always wear lifting belts whether we are the lifter or spotter.

    3) We allow our lifters to use wrist straps if they have trouble with grip.

    4) We never do more than 5 reps in a set.

    5) Our lifters may do full range cleans or hang cleans.

    During our in season program, the backs & receivers clean on Mondays & Wednesdays and our linemen on Tuesdays & Thursdays. Our sets and reps are always 3 sets of 3 reps at 65% of their max. The third time of the week that we do our cleans workout is before games as part of our pre game warm-ups.

    Dr. Sheppard talked about Karl Malone, as well as many high school, college and pro teams, using light cleans & squats before each game because of the multi joint ramifications of the exercise. We also have adopted this philosophy at Stritch and we have our players do 3 sets of 3 reps at either 105lbs, 135 lbs or 185 lbs immediately before we go onto the game field for warm-ups. Since we've started doing our pre game clean exercises two seasons ago our record is 18 - 4, and I believe that this part of our weight program is a main reason for our teams dramatic turn around.

    If you have further questions about cleans or other aspects of our weight program, feel free to contact me at Cardinal Stritch High School.

    419-693-0465
    whrabak@cardinalstritch.com

  4. #3
    Wannabebig Member Wiggy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Cameron, NC
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion32 View Post
    Dr. Sheppard referred to the safety fears many coaches have about doing power cleans as part of their core program, relates to lack of supervision while athletes lift and a lack of knowledge on how to teach proper cleaning form.
    SOOOOOO TRUE.

    The article is pretty good - I disagree with a couple points, but overall it's a winner.

    Wiggy
    Train Hard, Rest Hard, Play Hard.
    MMA Training

  5. #4
    schmitty199
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Reinbeck, Iowa
    Posts
    430
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion32 View Post
    I was on another site dealing with sports specific(football). The question was asked why the power clean isn't used in very many programs at any level any more? It is a great lift and I can't even think of why I don't use it in my offseason, other then I don't see anybody else use it. We do high pulls and hang clean but not power. Just wanted to pick peoples brains on this topic.
    It isnt?

    All the NFL teams do it.
    Age:19
    Height:5'10
    Weight: 203
    Bench-295
    Squat-515
    Hclean-305
    JOURNAL: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...ight=schmittys

  6. #5
    phil 4:13 Bako Lifter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Bakersfield, CA
    Posts
    2,837
    And pretty much all high schools. At least in my area.

  7. #6
    schmitty199
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Reinbeck, Iowa
    Posts
    430
    Quote Originally Posted by Bako Lifter View Post
    And pretty much all high schools. At least in my area.
    Yep same here.
    Age:19
    Height:5'10
    Weight: 203
    Bench-295
    Squat-515
    Hclean-305
    JOURNAL: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...ight=schmittys

  8. #7
    Squat slowly improving :)
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    0
    All of our team members use it as well.
    Been out the game for a little while, but jumpin back in

  9. #8
    TJW jed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    3,714
    I love Power Clean. Some of my team mates use it, and it helps.
    22 - 5'11'' - 190 lb
    PR's - Squat 350 | Bench 290 | Deadlift 400.4 | BW 203
    P Clean 98 KG | Jerk 106 | Full Clean 106 |
    Philippians 4:13 - "I can do anything through Christ who strengthens me."
    "I'm really impressed with your dedication. I will call it your jedication." - killxswitch
    J O U R N A L !
    TJW

  10. #9
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    7,645
    I think some teams might be moving away from power cleans to the hang clean just because most kids' form off the floor is atrocious and they might have a chance in hell of actually achieving full three-point extension if they start from the hang position. Just a guess.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  11. #10
    More Cowbell
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    San Antonio TEXAS!
    Posts
    77
    power and Hang cleans are the scourge of man. Im so glad once I stop playing I never hafto do those excersises ever agian...ever
    16
    6'
    234.1 lbs
    Squats: 360X1
    Bench: 260X1
    DL:TBAx1

  12. #11
    Iron4Life
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Sitting on cold Granite
    Posts
    3,314
    Quote Originally Posted by SFTS View Post
    power and Hang cleans are the scourge of man. Im so glad once I stop playing I never hafto do those excersises ever agian...ever
    Yeah.. why would you ever want to be a strong, functional, athletic person as you get older???

  13. #12
    Scorpion32
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    110
    As a coach your time is limited and you have to pick your exercises that are going to best benifit your athlete for the time invested. it takes a lot of time to teach a young athlete how to do a power clean with good form. I work as a trainer at a local gym and I see many young guys from area high school doing power cleans wrong. When I try to help they say this is how our coach tells us to do it. I also worked at two different colleges as a strength intern and assistant strength coach and no power cleans in either place I guess that is one reason I do not use it in my strength program ath the school I currently work fore
    At the college level they are very limited by ncaa in the ammount of time you can have withyour players. Is it worth spending the time to teach such a complex lift or something that isn't as complex?

  14. #13
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    7,645
    We had a similar 'discussion' here: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=73572

    IMHO, limited time in the weight room is a really bad reason not to include cleans in a training program... I don't think cleans are indispensible necessarily, but it is a great, great exercise and you'd be wrong to think that doing high pulls and deadlifting is even close to the same thing as cleaning.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  15. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    1,396
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion32 View Post
    It takes a lot of time to teach a young athlete how to do a power clean with good form.
    No kidding....I can pull a 600 deadlift, but I can't even clean 135 with good form. When I do it, it's like an explosive deadlift with a big reverse power curl. I'm really trying to learn the lift, but dammit, it's a bloody hard lift. Anyone have any tips for someone like me?

  16. #15
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    7,645
    It's not that hard but, just like anything, it helps to have good instruction and meaningful, quality practice. There are good books on OLs and quite a few decent online vids for free. I've posted some before and a lot of other people have too - I'll try to find and repost some of them.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  17. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    1,396
    Awesome Sensei, thanks a lot.

  18. #17
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    7,645
    Dan John Video on Squats and OLs (got the link from PowerManDL): http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...ic+squat&hl=en

    OL Instruction (can't remember who posted this originally - the link may not work anymore - the youtube links are the same thing though): http://www.infinityfitness.com/videos/nl/chado2.asf

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2ZV4gE0eUE
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHB1r...elated&search=

    Another one that I found with a quick youtube check (I haven't really watched it, but it looked promising):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LSNKX0yUSQ
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  19. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    1,396
    Awesome stuff Sensei, very helpful. I appreciate it.

  20. #19
    King Nothing ericg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Maine, USA
    Posts
    6,196
    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    Dan John Video on Squats and OLs (got the link from PowerManDL): http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...ic+squat&hl=en

    OL Instruction (can't remember who posted this originally - the link may not work anymore - the youtube links are the same thing though): http://www.infinityfitness.com/videos/nl/chado2.asf

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2ZV4gE0eUE
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHB1r...elated&search=

    Another one that I found with a quick youtube check (I haven't really watched it, but it looked promising):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LSNKX0yUSQ
    I spent MANY hours searching google and youtube vids for that first link. Thanks a ton Sensei
    Current Stats --------------- Training Goals: Improve athletic conditioning.
    Squat - 305lbs - 1/23/06 ----- 335
    Deadlift - 415lbs - 2/4/06 ---- 435
    Bench - 90s*7 ----------------- 100s*5
    Weight - 208 ------------------ 190
    Height - 5'10"

    My Journal|My Routine|My FitDay
    WBBB|"Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up" - Thomas Edison

  21. #20
    Wannabebig Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    30
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion32 View Post
    I was on another site dealing with sports specific(football). The question was asked why the power clean isn't used in very many programs at any level any more? It is a great lift and I can't even think of why I don't use it in my offseason, other then I don't see anybody else use it. We do high pulls and hang clean but not power. Just wanted to pick peoples brains on this topic.
    hang cleans are better on your back then power cleans
    Bench = 235 Height = 5'9
    Squat = 355 Weight = 230
    Deadlift= 315
    Total = 905

  22. #21
    schmitty199
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Reinbeck, Iowa
    Posts
    430
    Quote Originally Posted by WVtackle72 View Post
    hang cleans are better on your back then power cleans
    If necessary use a belt to keep your back straight. If done even close to right cleans shouldnt hurt your back.
    Age:19
    Height:5'10
    Weight: 203
    Bench-295
    Squat-515
    Hclean-305
    JOURNAL: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...ight=schmittys

  23. #22
    Senior Member JHarris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Baltimore
    Posts
    256
    Quote Originally Posted by schmitty199 View Post
    If necessary use a belt to keep your back straight. If done even close to right cleans shouldnt hurt your back.
    Hang cleans are not better on your back than powercleans. First off.. a power clean could be done from the hang. The term power only refers to catching the weight above parallel. I assume you are referring to starting the weight from the floor; this will actually help to strengthen your back so long as you do it with good form.

    As for using a belt.. a belt won't keep your back straight. It may add some abdominal pressure we could help to stabilize your spine, but you are better off in olympic lifting not using one when you are trying to learn the lifts. Chances are, your clean is way behind your actual strength anyway, so you probably wouldnt come close to it actually being helpful to your lifts.

  24. #23
    ...and then there was iron Andre3000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    the sco
    Posts
    156
    Above parallel? Sorry if i'm being blunt, but parallel to what? i always thought hang meant from a hang position and power was from the ground.

  25. #24
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    7,645
    JHarris is right. A powerclean's a powerclean (as opposed to a 'clean' or 'full clean') because you only do a quarter squat to catch the weight. A powerclean usually implies that it's from the ground, but you can do it from a hang.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  26. #25
    Who is John Galt? CrazyK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by schmitty199 View Post
    It isnt?

    All the NFL teams do it.
    That's actually not true. Half of the league does not even do free weight squats.

Similar Threads

  1. Trying to power clean 155
    By dustin991 in forum Bodybuilding & Weight Training
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 04-14-2007, 06:43 PM
  2. what alternative exercise can be done in place of power clean
    By PHOENIX in forum Bodybuilding & Weight Training
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 12-26-2006, 12:35 AM
  3. First Power Clean Workout
    By neon in forum Bodybuilding & Weight Training
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 12-22-2006, 02:30 PM
  4. For HIT Jedis Powerlifters and Power Bodybuilders: The Evil Russian Speaks
    By silles in forum Powerlifting and Strength Training
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 01-07-2004, 12:29 PM
  5. average ol power clean
    By synthetic in forum Powerlifting and Strength Training
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 09-07-2003, 05:15 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •