The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Wannabebig Member
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    Bulking And Vertical Jump!

    Hey guys, I was wondering i am 6'4 about 160-170 pounds 18yearsold i wanna bulk up and work on my vertical jump if i bulk and vertical train would i lose any vertical at all. My standing vertical is about 18-22 inch standing right now.

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  3. #2
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    Yeah you will, simple law of physics my friend. Bulking will increase your mass, and gravity will have a greater affect on it, thus requiring more vertical acceleration for you to jump.

    But the beauty of this is that you can train your vertical while being heavier, forcing your body adapt to its new weight. Then you go on a cut and you're back to your old weight but with more muscle mass, less fat, and an improved vertical!
    Last edited by Davor; 05-16-2007 at 08:30 PM.
    5'8'' 180 lbs

    Big 3: 1035

  4. #3
    天龙 McIrish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davor View Post
    Yeah you will, simple law of physics my friend. Bulking will increase your mass, and gravity will have a greater affect on it, thus requiring more vertical acceleration for you to jump.

    But the beauty of this is that you can train your vertical while being heavier, forcing your body adapt to its new weight. Then you go on a cut and you're back to your old weight but with more muscle mass, less fat, and an improved vertical!
    Not necessarily - first, if he bulks and puts a good amount of mass on his legs, chances are that his strength will increase, giving him more 'ups'. This might offset the added weight elsewhere. I agree with your second point, though. After his bulking, if he cuts some fat off he should have great vertical improvement.

    OP - you're 6'4'' and only 160 lbs? Geez, kid, don't worry about bulking and cutting... EAT EAT EAT. I doubt you'll lose any of your vertical, anyway, since I'm guessing you haven't specifically trained it for any great length of time.
    25 years old, 5'10''

    Back in the States to get hayooooge!

    Health goals
    - Weigh a healthy and active 170-180, healthy mind and body
    - Dunk a basketball (hey a man can have big dreams huh)
    - Swim 2-3x/week and become a better swimmer

  5. #4
    Senior Member smalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McIrish View Post
    Not necessarily - first, if he bulks and puts a good amount of mass on his legs, chances are that his strength will increase, giving him more 'ups'.



    I doubt you'll lose any of your vertical, anyway, since I'm guessing you haven't specifically trained it for any great length of time.


    Both good points. Eating enough to actually support hypertrophy will most likely have nothing but improvements upon your vertical, even though your gaining weight. Especially if your training your vertical throughout the bulk.

    And I dont know a whole lot about verticals but 22" doesnt seem significant enough to worry about at this point, IMO. I started doing box jumps 2 weeks ago, but before that I had never done any vertical or plyometrics training and at 227lbs it's considerably higher than 22" and higher than it was when I weighed 140 simply because I can now produce more power (enough to overcomensate for my fat ass).

    You do work legs directly correct?
    Diet is key, the calorie is king

    "Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be."
    --Abraham Lincoln

    "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
    Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination
    alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
    Calvin Coolidge (1872-1933)
    30th U.S. President

    "If you want to look abnormal you have to eat abnormal,lol."--ST

  6. #5
    Senior Member BFGUITAR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McIrish View Post
    Not necessarily - first, if he bulks and puts a good amount of mass on his legs, chances are that his strength will increase, giving him more 'ups'. This might offset the added weight elsewhere. I agree with your second point, though. After his bulking, if he cuts some fat off he should have great vertical improvement.

    OP - you're 6'4'' and only 160 lbs? Geez, kid, don't worry about bulking and cutting... EAT EAT EAT. I doubt you'll lose any of your vertical, anyway, since I'm guessing you haven't specifically trained it for any great length of time.
    If what you said is true than the people with the most muscle shoudl jump the highest. Thats not the case.

  7. #6
    Senior Member smalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BFGUITAR View Post
    If what you said is true than the people with the most muscle shoudl jump the highest. Thats not the case.

    That's not what he said at all. He was applying the principle of gained strength in a single individual who obviously doesnt have a whole lot to begin with. Therefore if THIS person who lacks a lot of power can gain muscle/strength during a bulk then they can most likely improve their vertical (provided they dont but on rediculous amounts of fat)

    Your trying to suggest he is saying if person A has more muscle than person b he will have a higher vertical no matter what. Where you got that I dont know.
    Diet is key, the calorie is king

    "Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be."
    --Abraham Lincoln

    "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
    Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination
    alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
    Calvin Coolidge (1872-1933)
    30th U.S. President

    "If you want to look abnormal you have to eat abnormal,lol."--ST

  8. #7
    Senior Member BFGUITAR's Avatar
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    Well more muscle means more weight which is true. But as we all know, a person with twice the muscle isnt always twice as strong.

    To optimize body weight excersises you have to balance your weight.

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by smalls View Post
    Both good points. Eating enough to actually support hypertrophy will most likely have nothing but improvements upon your vertical, even though your gaining weight. Especially if your training your vertical throughout the bulk.

    And I dont know a whole lot about verticals but 22" doesnt seem significant enough to worry about at this point, IMO. I started doing box jumps 2 weeks ago, but before that I had never done any vertical or plyometrics training and at 227lbs it's considerably higher than 22" and higher than it was when I weighed 140 simply because I can now produce more power (enough to overcomensate for my fat ass).

    You do work legs directly correct?
    there are so many ways of measuring your vertical jump that I don't think you should look at his 22 inch vert and consider it small. There are plenty of factors, taking a step or not taking a step, reaching with 1 hand or 2. so consider that.

  10. #9
    Senior Member smalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by booyah View Post
    there are so many ways of measuring your vertical jump that I don't think you should look at his 22 inch vert and consider it small. There are plenty of factors, taking a step or not taking a step, reaching with 1 hand or 2. so consider that.

    I agree, and I certainly wasnt trying to be rude. It's just that unless you have trained specifically and optimally to get your vertical considerably higher than what you started with then you probably wont lose THAT much by doing a GOOD bulk (that incorporates leg strength/speed).
    Diet is key, the calorie is king

    "Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be."
    --Abraham Lincoln

    "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
    Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination
    alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
    Calvin Coolidge (1872-1933)
    30th U.S. President

    "If you want to look abnormal you have to eat abnormal,lol."--ST

  11. #10
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Lord... The simple answer is that gaining weight is NOT going to benefit your vertical.

    At 6'4", 165 pounds, you are a twig and probably weak as hell - your vertical is nowhere near where it could be.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  12. #11
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    from when i weighed 140 to what i way now 175 my verticle has changed very little if any. you must gain strength so if your putting on muscle, in your legs and such your verticle will either stay the same or increase.
    i am working on increasing my verticle, which requires an increase of strength which also requires more weight due to more muscle.

    but answer is squat ATF style.

  13. #12
    Senior Member Invain's Avatar
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    I gained 65 pounds this last year and my vertical didn't decrease at all. If anything it went up, even with the increased weight. I can jump ontop of platforms about neck height with no running start.
    Best lifts: 615/475/660, Raw w/ Wraps
    http://www.youtube.com/user/invain622002

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Invain View Post
    I gained 65 pounds this last year and my vertical didn't decrease at all. If anything it went up, even with the increased weight. I can jump ontop of platforms about neck height with no running start.
    really, thats pretty good, my heighest platform jump was shoulder height, with a step hop.
    your the same height as me, can you dunk? I am close but need a few more inches.

  15. #14
    Senior Member Invain's Avatar
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    I can easily grab rim but I'm a ways from dunking. For one, I have really short arms, and being 5' 8" doesn't help either. Secondly, I have like the worlds smallest hands so I can't even palm a b-ball.
    Best lifts: 615/475/660, Raw w/ Wraps
    http://www.youtube.com/user/invain622002

  16. #15
    Wannabebig Member
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    Yeah i dont wanna be the hugest guy im just looking to get like 190-185 just so i have a body then move up too 200 im not happy with my body? my vertical is bad for me to touch a 10 foot rim i only need to jump like 18inches and since i jump 2 footed they say u need strength training to jump higher.I wanna be like a athleic build.

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