The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #26
    Senior Member getfit's Avatar
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    That was awesome Sensei
    You will soon see Getfit in OngII Flying Knee Thingys of Doom see if the feisty greek can survive the kicks of Steel Leg From Shaolin Soccer,Dim Mak(def touch) from ChungLee,and Flying Crane by Daniel-san-El Pietro

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  2. #27
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  3. #28
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    Interesting. I have been atf/atg squatting for about 10 years and my back always slightly rounds because I bottom out completely. I had a strength coach attempt to help me for several months and still no luck. I even had a friend with a grad degree in exercise science help me out too. Is it normal or physically impossible for some people to bottom out "properly" on atg/atf squats? Once I get below parallel my back always rounds no matter how hard I try. I know it is not a flexiblity issue, I am just curious if bottoming out this way in an atf squat is an actual technique? I am aware of people dling with rounded backs in a controlled fashion. I am extremely flexible so I know that is not the issue. I know that the proportions of a person can dictate squat form, but what about the rounding of the lower back? I have also talked about this with other guys in the gym. I know gym vets that can squat pretty much Tom Platz style and others that squat like me. Anyways, I would love to hear some feedback. Great stuff, you should seriously make an instructional video.
    Last edited by Gabrielle; 05-27-2007 at 03:28 AM.

  4. #29
    Cross trainer & DL addict mikesbytes's Avatar
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    Excellent info. I'm going to have a crack at the balance ones, ie with the bar above the head.

    What was the benefit of the front squats?

  5. #30
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabrielle View Post
    Interesting. I have been atf/atg squatting for about 10 years and my back always slightly rounds because I bottom out completely. I had a strength coach attempt to help me for several months and still no luck. I even had a friend with a grad degree in exercise science help me out too. Is it normal or physically impossible for some people to bottom out "properly" on atg/atf squats? Once I get below parallel my back always rounds no matter how hard I try. I know it is not a flexiblity issue, I am just curious if bottoming out this way in an atf squat is an actual technique? I am aware of people dling with rounded backs in a controlled fashion. I am extremely flexible so I know that is not the issue. I know that the proportions of a person can dictate squat form, but what about the rounding of the lower back?
    Can you straighten out your back at the bottom while holding onto a power rack like I suggested in the vid? If so, it probably IS a flexibility issue. You're an OLer, right? A lot of OLers who squat ATF round a little towards the bottom - it isn't that that they aren't flexible, but they use a lot more quad when they squat and rounding the lower back will take stress off the hips and hams. They can get away with it because they're strong as hell and well-conditioned, but it's still not the best.
    If you look at small children sitting on their haunches, they can do an honest-to-gosh ass-to-floor squat with a back as straight as a board. I've taken pictures of my son in this position and seen it more times than I can count. Age, disuse, and injury can do a number on this flexibility, but it's still something to strive for.
    I have also talked about this with other guys in the gym. I know gym vets that can squat pretty much Tom Platz style and others that squat like me. Anyways, I would love to hear some feedback. Great stuff, you should seriously make an instructional video.
    TP squatted high-bar, pretty much OL-style, so I'm not sure what you mean, but I think any style of squat should be done with as minimal back flexion as possible.
    Thank you for the nice feedback.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
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  6. #31
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesbytes View Post
    Excellent info. I'm going to have a crack at the balance ones, ie with the bar above the head.

    What was the benefit of the front squats?
    Both the OHSQ and the front squat are pretty unforgiving exercises if you have back flexion, so they can be used to 'relearn' proper positioning - doesn't mean that by doing them your regular squatting form will improve, but they can help.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  7. #32
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    What I meant by the TP example is he could squat with his feet as close together as possible and do a textbook atf/atg squat. I shouldn't use him as an example because very people in the world can squat like him. Thanx for the technique reassurance, and I will still try to improve the bottom end of my squats. It will give me something to strive for. Actually I am not a OLer, just an old 'powerbuilder' as I like to call it. By the way you have sick quads

  8. #33
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Thanks!
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  9. #34
    Meow CleverName's Avatar
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    Thanks for the video Sensei.

    I have a problem though with my knee when I squat. Actually it's not just when I squat. You see when I squat down far enough until my thighs are parallel to the ground and go just a little bit below that there's some bone that pops out on the right side of my knee. Having weight on my back makes it pop out easier/earlier. I have a medical band that I use to help keep it in but it doesn't always work that well; it has to be REALLY tight at all times. Do you know anything else I can do to prevent that bone from popping out? It prevents me from squatting properly and deeply.

    If I can't squat that far down how ineffective do you think the squat might be? Thanks...
    Last edited by CleverName; 05-27-2007 at 02:11 PM.

  10. #35
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    You should probably get that checked by a sports med doctor.

    I don't really have advice for you. I'll try to make a video about knee tracking at some point, but if you have medical issues, then you need to clear things with a doctor.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  11. #36
    Meow CleverName's Avatar
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    No insurance right now unfortunately.

    But I still wonder how effective a squat would be just being close to have your thighs parallel, but not completely. Really sucks; I wish I could squat without this worry in the back of my mind. It's not that it's overly painful, just really really uncomfortable.

  12. #37
    Senior Member KoolDrew's Avatar
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    Wow, great video Sensei!

    I am also one of those people who round their back at the bottom. Never really noticed it until watching this video though.

  13. #38
    Senior Member Hephaestus's Avatar
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    Wow, great i'll try to do some of these on my off days with just a bar. My form isn't the greatest and im sure this will help. Now you need one for deadlifts

  14. #39
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    That mistake is exactly how I caned my lower back. Can't wait to watch - thanks a lot!

  15. #40
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    Great video :O

  16. #41
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    I implemented some of the stuff in your vid today. Was liking everything until OH Squat.....oww >_>

  17. #42
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Take your time getting into the OHSQ. Dislocates with a broom (or rope or band) and working that bottom position of the squat will make the OHSQ easier. A light kettlebell one-arm OHSQ would be a good transition exercise. Hmm, maybe I'll make the next video about the OHSQ...
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  18. #43
    Meow CleverName's Avatar
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    Sensei could you please critique my squat form? My lower back still hurts when I do them. Hopefully I showed enough of what I do in this video... if not, just tell me what you need to see!

    Video

  19. #44
    Senior Member Anthony's Avatar
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    Finally got to watch it - good stuff! Your first drill is something we get people to do quite often (holding the rack while learning to arch in the bottom).

    Things I would add ...

    1) activating the hip flexors seems to help a lot of people maintain a better arch when in the bottom squat position. You spoke to this indirectly when you said stay tight on the way down. Matthew Swift on the CF forums posted a video demonstrating this and I've seen it work in person as well (even for myself).

    2) active shoulders on the overhead squat!

    3) keep the back arched when stretching hamstrings ... you'll still get a stretch if you don't, but it won't be quite as effective.

    Just nitpicking, though.
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  20. #45
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Anthony,
    Thanks for the tips. I'll look for Matthew's video. I didn't want to spend too much time explaining the OHSQ, but I hoped saying to pull the bar apart would be enough - you're right though. I thought I said keep back arched on the hamstring stretches, but I probably didn't.

    CleverName,
    I can't see the video.. Check those directions for imbedding a youtube video again - you don't put the whole url inbetween the [ youtube ] and [ /youtube ]
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  21. #46
    Meow CleverName's Avatar
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    Hmmm, let's try that again...

    Video

  22. #47
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    I'd have to see some squats with heavier weights to get a good look at your form, but you look pretty good there. Make sure you keep your abs and hips tight as hell and the weight on your heel.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  23. #48
    Banned bjohnso's Avatar
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    Fantastic video! I will definately be watching this again. I think this should be a sticky.

  24. #49
    Wannabebig Member pberge's Avatar
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    Great video, and it could not have come at a better time for me.
    I'm getting ready to add full squats into my routine again after hurting my lower back. This video is exactly what I needed to help me prevent another injury.

  25. #50
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    great video... i dont think ive been going parellel on my squats, even tho it feels like im going low. its difficult even doing BW sqauts that low.. keeping my back in line.
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