The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

It’s no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #51
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    That is a well done video.
    Last edited by chris mason; 06-03-2007 at 07:41 PM.


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  2. #52
    Banned Tofer's Avatar
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    Sensei: awesome video. This is exactly what I was talking about in the thread I made a while ago.

    To use an example, my squat looks very similar to this (a video posted by PowermanDL):

    Video


    Is that what you would consider lower back rounding at the bottom of the lift?

    I've tried everything you said in the video, for the past week or so, and I can't get comfortable with staying that far upright (that is, when I squat down and hold something to get into position). I just can't stay balanced and I would not feel comfortable doing it with real weight.

    What sort of problems would I expect to encounter if I continue to squat like this? The fact that I can't seem to correct this has been bothering me so much for the past couple of months, that I've been doing olympic front squats exclusively to avoid it.
    Last edited by Tofer; 06-03-2007 at 08:42 PM.

  3. #53
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Thanks everyone!

    Tofer,
    I can't see the vid. Make sure you just have the numbers/letters between the [ youtube] and [/ youtube]
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  4. #54
    Banned Tofer's Avatar
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    Should work now.

  5. #55
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tofer View Post
    Is that what you would consider lower back rounding at the bottom of the lift? I've tried everything you said in the video, for the past week or so, and I can't get comfortable with staying that far upright (that is, when I squat down and hold something to get into position). I just can't stay balanced and I would not feel comfortable doing it with real weight.
    Yes, his back is rounding at the bottom.
    What sort of problems would I expect to encounter if I continue to squat like this?
    You might never, ever have problems, but you should try to correct it. Just so you know, my back rounds too - not always, but if I go ATF and I'm not focused, it happens.
    The fact that I can't seem to correct this has been bothering me so much for the past couple of months, that I've been doing olympic front squats exclusively to avoid it.
    I don't want anyone to get paranoid about it and I'm not a squat nazi. Just wanted people to be aware of it and give them some ideas about how to correct it.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  6. #56
    Banned Tofer's Avatar
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    Thanks a lot, Sensei. I'll keep working in those stretches and hopefully it'll correct itself over time.

    I look forward to seeing more videos in the future.

  7. #57
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    Great video, Sensei. I have some problems with my squatting and I've always suspected that it's due to weak hip flexors (I'll often have pain there and my lower back after squatting). Hopefully some of the exercises you mentioned will help me eliminate that

  8. #58
    Senior Member DNL's Avatar
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    Just thought I bum the thread.

    I never realized my back rounds at the bottom until i saw this thread. so for the past week, I've been working on consciously focusing on arching it. I've added a good 30lbs to my squat. When i was done my lowerback wasn't too tight or tired which is always good.

  9. #59
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Thanks everybody!
    Quote Originally Posted by DNL View Post
    I've added a good 30lbs to my squat. When i was done my lowerback wasn't too tight or tired which is always good.
    WOW! That's awesome news! Thank you!
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  10. #60
    Senior Member garjagan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSpikeyThing View Post
    I don't know anything about stretching....what stretches? How often? How long do you hold for? etc.
    I do plyrometric style streching. I do slow deep breathing streches as well but I'd never go as far as those yoga freaks, they bend the body well beyond what is needed (or healthy in my opinion).
    But plyrometrics are good for flexibility and keeping tendons in good form.

    A good one I do for the back/legs is stand up straight with good posture, legs a little wider that the shoulders, bend at the hips and let your arms dangle down below/in front of your chest in a crossed position, apply a small bounce and see how far you can get with about 10 - 20 bounces (it's not supposed to hurt!), keeping your legs straight. Over time you'll notice that touching your toes and giving your back a full stretch is very easy, reagardless of whether you're warmed up or not.

  11. #61
    1000 or bust motoko013's Avatar
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    what are the effects of lower back rounding?

    Reach down between your legs and find a pair of balls. That's what it takes to lift big weights. Genetics is the weak man's excuse for why he sucks at life. Don't be that guy - RhodeHouse

    Any man under 200lbs is a woman - RhodeHouse

  12. #62
    THUNDER THIGHS! Fuzzy's Avatar
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    Great vid sensei!

    I just wanted to question your low bar positioning. I myself as an Oly lifter preffer the bar up high on my traps, but another trick I learnt is to hold the grip as narrow as possible. This forced me to keep my upper back really tight and clean. I like to visualise that Im trying to do the tightest back double bi shot possible. Combine this with a spread chest and a big breath and you will fix alot of problems.

    The issue for many people is lack of hamstring flexibility, but whats rarely considered is that the upperback, and thus the lower back get sloppy. If the grip is narrow and the upper back is flexed, the natural tendency is to spread the chest more.

    You obviously have mastered the low bar technique but maybe other members would benefit from keeping the bar on the traps and the grip as narrow as possible. Ive found I will go more forward with the low bar style, and that I can keep much more upright with high bar.

    Ofcourse this can be done witht he low bar positioning, but I think with the high bar people will find it more natural.

    My coach personally thinks low bar squatting is bad for the shoulders... but thats another topic
    Last edited by Fuzzy; 06-25-2007 at 06:29 AM.
    Being a strong teenager means nothing.

    My wrists hurt, but some people don't have wrists to be sore. My knees have tendinitis, but some people don't have legs to get tendinitis in. I seem to be going backwards with training, yet some people can't even walk let alone lift 400 pounds on a daily basis.

    Dust out the vagina, and keep on lifting.

  13. #63
    Who me? Chubrock's Avatar
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    I find my squat is so much smoother with a lowerbar placement. A good sitback combined with a lean really keeps the bar traveling in the straightest line possible.

    Fuck, fight, or hold the light.

  14. #64
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
    Great vid sensei!

    I just wanted to question your low bar positioning. I myself as an Oly lifter preffer the bar up high on my traps, but another trick I learnt is to hold the grip as narrow as possible. This forced me to keep my upper back really tight and clean. I like to visualise that Im trying to do the tightest back double bi shot possible. Combine this with a spread chest and a big breath and you will fix alot of problems.
    Because the bar's center of gravity is higher, a high bar placement is less forgiving on forward lean and lower back rounding than a high bar placement. Having said that, the lower back rounding at the bottom of a squat is common whether people are squatting high bar or low bar, especially if they are squatting atf.
    The issue for many people is lack of hamstring flexibility, but whats rarely considered is that the upperback, and thus the lower back get sloppy. If the grip is narrow and the upper back is flexed, the natural tendency is to spread the chest more.

    You obviously have mastered the low bar technique but maybe other members would benefit from keeping the bar on the traps and the grip as narrow as possible. Ive found I will go more forward with the low bar style, and that I can keep much more upright with high bar.

    Ofcourse this can be done witht he low bar positioning, but I think with the high bar people will find it more natural.

    My coach personally thinks low bar squatting is bad for the shoulders... but thats another topic
    I talk about upper back tightness, but didn't mess with grip width. It's an issue, and you're right, shoulder and thoracic flexibility is VERY important. I talk about it a little in Squat Rx #2, but it's all related - if you are stiff anywhere along the line, it can affect your mobility in a lot of ways you may not even be aware of.
    Last edited by Sensei; 06-25-2007 at 08:33 AM.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  15. #65
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by motoko013 View Post
    what are the effects of lower back rounding?
    You're putting the lower back in a dangerous position. A lot of really strong people can get away with it, but they are getting away with it - it isn't advantageous to do so.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  16. #66
    1000 or bust motoko013's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    You're putting the lower back in a dangerous position. A lot of really strong people can get away with it, but they are getting away with it - it isn't advantageous to do so.
    i see...this could be the reason i hurt my back...go figure....thanks for the video, im hoping after my back heals i'll be back to squatting and correctly

    Reach down between your legs and find a pair of balls. That's what it takes to lift big weights. Genetics is the weak man's excuse for why he sucks at life. Don't be that guy - RhodeHouse

    Any man under 200lbs is a woman - RhodeHouse

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