The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #26
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    Pump is temporarily increased blood flow resulting in a visual illusion =/= hypertrophy. I never get pumped from benching nor from weighted dips, yet these cause me to grow. I have done hundreds of pushups which give me this pump, but no growth has occurred because of it. Perhaps I might presage chest by pounding out a set of 100 pushups just to get the pump before I bench?
    Last edited by Horseman; 04-01-2002 at 09:25 PM.
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  2. #27
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Ok boys and girls, let's make a differentiation here. I was discussing a pump due to intense exercise using a relatively high percentage of your 1RM, not the pump you might get from riding a bicycle hard, or performing some form of endless repetitions. Now that we have this distinction, let's discuss this matter intelligently. Yes, a pump is not necessarily indicative of growth. You can grow without it. However, if in the course of your normal training you experience a pump much greater than normal, this usually precedes a growth period.

  3. #28
    Senior Member Gavan's Avatar
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    I agree with Chris ! Plus you can grow without pump but what about OPTIMAL growth ?

    But I don't think you need a pump from 1-5 to grow. We can grow with 10RM or 20RM perhaps even 30RM...

    What's optimal... In my opinion something like 12-20RM
    Gain Muscles ? Overload !
    Lose Fat ? Input < Output
    Genetic determines your potential
    Chins : 10x106kg Dips 10x109kg

  4. #29
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    I try to avoid getting a pump.

    Why?

    I have already started to get stretch marks and bloating my muscles with pump will just make it worse. Yeah I know, they are the 'battle scars' of the weightlifter, etc, etc, but I just want to avoid them if I can.

    I also notice that only certain exercises can get me a 'pump' feeling, and as such I'm suspicious of its benefits. I can get a pump from bicep work, quads, pecs and shoulders, but not so much for tris, back, hams, or other muscles.

    Cal

  5. #30
    Senior Member MonStar1023's Avatar
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    Guys I am telling you ALA preworkout makes you PUMP like crazy! Never had my chest or triceps well up so damn much!


  6. #31
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    Originally posted by chris mason
    Ok boys and girls, let's make a differentiation here. I was discussing a pump due to intense exercise using a relatively high percentage of your 1RM, not the pump you might get from riding a bicycle hard, or performing some form of endless repetitions.
    What is the difference, pump is pump...the very fact that you can get a pump via either method, yet only one method will induce hypertrophy pretty much discounts a relation between pump and growth. But then again, I guess some people love to have their muscles swelled up during their training for no apparent reason.
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

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  7. #32
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    Originally posted by MonStar1023
    Guys I am telling you ALA preworkout makes you PUMP like crazy! Never had my chest or triceps well up so damn much!

    Not for me, I've even tried over 1000mg of it preworkout and it didn't do anything...

  8. #33
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    Why?
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

    Friends don't let friends do dumbell kickbacks. - Me

    ElP is the smartest man in the world. - Gyno Rhino

    A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls. -- Dan Quayle

    If do right, no can defense. -- Mr. Miyagi

    Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey:

    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet. And also, you're drunk.

    Current FFFA Enforcer

  9. #34
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    Originally posted by Callahan
    I try to avoid getting a pump.

    Why?

    I have already started to get stretch marks and bloating my muscles with pump will just make it worse. Yeah I know, they are the 'battle scars' of the weightlifter, etc, etc, but I just want to avoid them if I can.

    I also notice that only certain exercises can get me a 'pump' feeling, and as such I'm suspicious of its benefits. I can get a pump from bicep work, quads, pecs and shoulders, but not so much for tris, back, hams, or other muscles.

    Cal
    Just use some skin cream or vitamin E or whatever. Don't hold yourself back in the gym to avoid stretch marks because you could still get them without "the pump."

  10. #35
    Senior Member MonStar1023's Avatar
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    How could you not like your muscles all swelled up when you train? Like Arnold said himself, "da best or most satisfying feeling dat you can get in da gym is da pump."


  11. #36
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ElPietro


    What is the difference, pump is pump...the very fact that you can get a pump via either method, yet only one method will induce hypertrophy pretty much discounts a relation between pump and growth.
    I think that is poor logic. Why do you say that a pump is a pump? As you just noted, it can be induced for different reasons, thus maybe there is a difference.

    As for the feeling, yes I enjoy it. Frankly, I don't get pumped as much as I would like, but oh well.

  12. #37
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    Pump is just pump though chris. How you train is important, not how you achieve pump.

    Pump is based on circulation...your training is what induces this. It's simply a side-effect of training, by your body to provide nutrients to the areas that require it most.

    If people enjoy spending their money so they can be pumped in the gym I guess that's their business. But I see it as a bit of a waste of focus. I go there to gain strength, some added muscle mass and burn some cals. Not for some one hour muscle high.
    Last edited by ElPietro; 04-02-2002 at 02:49 PM.
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

    Friends don't let friends do dumbell kickbacks. - Me

    ElP is the smartest man in the world. - Gyno Rhino

    A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls. -- Dan Quayle

    If do right, no can defense. -- Mr. Miyagi

    Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey:

    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet. And also, you're drunk.

    Current FFFA Enforcer

  13. #38
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Ok, let's look at this differently. When I took steroids, I got the most amazing pumps I ever had. Regardless of what I did, I got pumped. In my training experience, when I was in my best growth periods (not just on steroids), I was also getting my best pumps. Coincidence, I don't think so.

  14. #39
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    If its a side-effect of glycolytic or alactic-anaerobic fatigue, then its probably going to result in growth. Otherwise, no.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
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    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

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    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

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  15. #40
    MA's Bionic Creation syntekz's Avatar
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    Originally posted by MonStar1023
    Guys I am telling you ALA preworkout makes you PUMP like crazy! Never had my chest or triceps well up so damn much!

    Didn't you also change your routine though?

  16. #41
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    Originally posted by chris mason
    Ok, let's look at this differently. When I took steroids, I got the most amazing pumps I ever had. Regardless of what I did, I got pumped. In my training experience, when I was in my best growth periods (not just on steroids), I was also getting my best pumps. Coincidence, I don't think so.
    If you examine this more closely you will still see my point though. When you were on steroids this would facilitate very intense training...which would result in very intense pumps. What gave you the growth? The training or the pump? When you were in your best growth periods you were probably training as effectively as you could, which would require your circulatory system to be as effective as it could be as well resulting in a great pump. Pump is a reaction from the circulatory system, it will happen when you train, but it shouldn't be the goal of your training. You can get a pump so many ways but only when you train for size do you grow. I don't know how much more apparent this point can be made.
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

    Friends don't let friends do dumbell kickbacks. - Me

    ElP is the smartest man in the world. - Gyno Rhino

    A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls. -- Dan Quayle

    If do right, no can defense. -- Mr. Miyagi

    Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey:

    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet. And also, you're drunk.

    Current FFFA Enforcer

  17. #42
    Bring it. DaCypher's Avatar
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    What about the pushups thing? You can get a pump doing 100 pushups but is that the best way to gain mass/strength?

    Also, is the pump a direct indication of growth and therefore a lack of the pump an indication of a lack of growth? I don't think so because I am progressing similarly in muscle groups that get pumped as well as those that don't...

    Not sure if that made any sense... Maybe I am missing the point trying to be made here?
    Last edited by DaCypher; 04-02-2002 at 04:41 PM.
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  18. #43
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ElPietro


    If you examine this more closely you will still see my point though. When you were on steroids this would facilitate very intense training...which would result in very intense pumps. What gave you the growth? The training or the pump? When you were in your best growth periods you were probably training as effectively as you could, which would require your circulatory system to be as effective as it could be as well resulting in a great pump. Pump is a reaction from the circulatory system, it will happen when you train, but it shouldn't be the goal of your training. You can get a pump so many ways but only when you train for size do you grow. I don't know how much more apparent this point can be made.

    Wrong. I trained in the same manner, I always train in the same manner. I never trained "harder" when on steroids, longer, but not harder (the pump came early, so even if I wasn't doing more sets I would have gotten a massive pump). My point with that post is that better pumps seem to come when the body is in an anabolic state. Obviously you will not change your thinking here, and that is ok. As for the pump aiding your workout, I think you are incorrect in that premise. If the pump is due to a "congestion" of blood in the muscular tissue, this backup will actually marr the body's ability to remove waste products and deliver nutrients to the muscles. Again, you last sentence shows that you are failing to grasp my point, I believe that a better than normal pump, in the context of a high intensity workout, is indicative of impending growth. I don't believe that a pump from riding a bicycle foretells of the same thing.
    Last edited by chris mason; 04-03-2002 at 05:14 AM.

  19. #44
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    I'm going to have to agree with GAVAN on this one he hit it on the nose. Blood and iron had it mostly right except when he said, "The vast majority of one's growth will be due to enlargement of muscle fibers and for this one should train in a lower/moderate rep range (Non-pump territory.)" this is not true because muscle fibers do not enlarge. Muscle "fibers" can increase in number, which will increase the apparent size. To increase the number of muscle fibers it is thought to be proportional to protein intake. The more protein, myosin filaments that can be made. Protein is synthesized into an acid, which is then synthesized where it is needed.


    Anyway, the body is a elastic entity! If you over-work it it'll adapt! Because of this, a Pump promotes growth. Thatís why you see those people in the gym who are there everyday but they are still the same size as they were last year!!

    OH yeah, Chris Don't talk to Crackerot69 like that, Respect the people that have been here longer than you or you asking for a flaming.!!!

  20. #45
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TylerDurden
    I'm going to have to agree with GAVAN on this one he hit it on the nose. Blood and iron had it mostly right except when he said, "The vast majority of one's growth will be due to enlargement of muscle fibers and for this one should train in a lower/moderate rep range (Non-pump territory.)" this is not true because muscle fibers do not enlarge.

    Since when?

    Muscle "fibers" can increase in number, which will increase the apparent size.

    Since when has hyperplasia been proven as an active mechanism in humans? And when did it override all current scientific knowledge stating fiber hypertrophy as being the active component of muscular growth?

    To increase the number of muscle fibers it is thought to be proportional to protein intake. The more protein, myosin filaments that can be made. Protein is synthesized into an acid, which is then synthesized where it is needed.


    You're partially right here, but you've entirely mistaken the concept of muscle fibers (proportional to protein intake???) and contractile filaments.

    Anyway, the body is a elastic entity! If you over-work it it'll adapt! Because of this, a Pump promotes growth. Thatís why you see those people in the gym who are there everyday but they are still the same size as they were last year!!


    Pump promotes growth? References?

    No, you see those people at the same size because they're clowns that would rather socialize than do a real lift.

    OH yeah, Chris Don't talk to Crackerot69 like that, Respect the people that have been here longer than you or you asking for a flaming.!!!


    I'm going to be laughing at this a whole lot more than all the rest of the gibberish you wrote.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  21. #46
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TylerDurden
    I'm going to have to agree with GAVAN on this one he hit it on the nose. Blood and iron had it mostly right except when he said, "The vast majority of one's growth will be due to enlargement of muscle fibers and for this one should train in a lower/moderate rep range (Non-pump territory.)" this is not true because muscle fibers do not enlarge. Muscle "fibers" can increase in number, which will increase the apparent size. To increase the number of muscle fibers it is thought to be proportional to protein intake. The more protein, myosin filaments that can be made. Protein is synthesized into an acid, which is then synthesized where it is needed.


    Anyway, the body is a elastic entity! If you over-work it it'll adapt! Because of this, a Pump promotes growth. Thatís why you see those people in the gym who are there everyday but they are still the same size as they were last year!!

    OH yeah, Chris Don't talk to Crackerot69 like that, Respect the people that have been here longer than you or you asking for a flaming.!!!

    I don't know where to start, but I think that Powerman summed it up pretty well.

  22. #47
    The Doc TylerDurden's Avatar
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    Ouch, I just got spanked!! (Holds up a white flag)
    Sorry i was drunk and didn't proof read! I deserved that for being a dick and not explaining myself better. I just hate when people post to try to make themselves sound better than others for little to no reason. But here is my point (just a little more scientific)
    The actual size of muscles can be increased by bouts of anaerobic, short-duration, high intensity resistance training. The resulting muscle comes primarily from an increase in diameter of the fast-glycolic fibers. Most of the fiber thickening is a consequence of increased synthesis of myosin and actin filaments, which permits a greater opportunity for cross-bridge cycling and an increase in the muscleís contraction strength. Hyperplasia is believed to contribute to muscle enlargement to a small extent. Muscles cells are unable to divide by mitotic division, but experimental data suggest that greatly enlarged fibers can split length wise down the middle, resulting in an increase in the number of fibers.
    "

  23. #48
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    Maintaining a great pump throughout your workout isn't necissary but it definately helps. Your heart is pumping more blood into the trained muscle than the muscle can pump out. Therefore, blood flow thoughout the muscle is slowed dramatically. This, theorectically, would allow for more nutrients to be driven into the muscle assuming that you are up on your post-workout nutrition.

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