The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

It’s no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Wannabebig Member thzone1986's Avatar
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    Pubmed confusion: Partial vs. Deep Squat

    So I've been doing some research into the biomechanics of the squat and one thing that's always surfaced is the topic of a partial vs. deep motion.

    (Assuming partial = above parallel thighs & that deep = hips below patella, thighs just below parallel)

    All these articles have been telling me that shear force at the knee reaches its max at the lowest point of the squat, and that when you go beyond parallel, you are risking injury to the menisci and cruciate ligaments.

    But then on the other hand you have a lot of people saying that the lower you go the better, and that it is actually safer than just going parallel b/c the hamstrings are activated more and take some load off the quadriceps.

    I'm completely confused. Can the veterans here please advise?

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  3. #2
    back at it Beast's Avatar
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    Can you post the studies?

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  4. #3
    Wannabebig Member thzone1986's Avatar
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    not sure not to make a pdf attachment, but here's the abstract

  5. #4
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    As far as I know the maximum amount of torque is when you are at parallel. Stopping above doesn't give you much of a workout, so go below.

  6. #5
    Breaker of Skulls Guido's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thzone1986 View Post
    not sure not to make a pdf attachment, but here's the abstract
    That doesn't really help because it does not discuss the study methods, equipment used, measurements, sample size, sample characteristics, or any other quantitative information. It's hard to make judgements on the quality of a study without those things.
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  7. #6
    back at it Beast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thzone1986 View Post
    not sure not to make a pdf attachment, but here's the abstract
    Very interesting! What about all the other articles you mentioned?

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  8. #7
    TJW Keith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSpikeyThing View Post
    As far as I know the maximum amount of torque is when you are at parallel.
    :withstupi


    Once you're below parallel the stress is then placed more on the hips, correct?
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  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith View Post
    :withstupi


    Once you're below parallel the stress is then placed more on the hips, correct?
    not sure, but I would think so. I was basing my statement off of basic physics.

  10. #9
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    I played football at a pretty big college, we went to parallel when we squated. Then about half way through my time there, we stopped squating completely and did weighted lunges instead. Our strength coach was worried enough about knee injury and stress to replace squat completely with another lift. We did A TON of running as well, not sure how that factored in the decision, if at all.

  11. #10
    Wannabebig Member thzone1986's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guido View Post
    That doesn't really help because it does not discuss the study methods, equipment used, measurements, sample size, sample characteristics, or any other quantitative information. It's hard to make judgements on the quality of a study without those things.

    Guido I can't really do that without attaching the whole pdf file. (which i don't know how to) because the article is restricted access.

  12. #11
    Senior Member The Champion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeROC View Post
    I played football at a pretty big college, we went to parallel when we squated. Then about half way through my time there, we stopped squating completely and did weighted lunges instead. Our strength coach was worried enough about knee injury and stress to replace squat completely with another lift. We did A TON of running as well, not sure how that factored in the decision, if at all.
    judging by your name, was it Ohio State that you played at?

  13. #12
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    You don't have to put the whole pdf file - a quote or two about the methodology would probably be pretty telling.

    You gotta love the strategically placed "may"s throughout the abstract...
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
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  14. #13
    Breaker of Skulls Guido's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    You gotta love the strategically placed "may"s throughout the abstract...
    Apparently either their confidence level/margin of statistical error is high, or their just covering their asses. Hmmmmm.
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  15. #14
    back at it Beast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thzone1986 View Post
    All these articles have been telling me that shear force at the knee reaches its max at the lowest point of the squat, and that when you go beyond parallel, you are risking injury to the menisci and cruciate ligaments.
    Very interesting! What about all the other articles you mentioned?

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    "OMG HE EETS 2 MUCH0RZ!!111 O NOES HE EETS TEH FATS!!!111" - PowerManDL

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  16. #15
    Senior Member Howard 9's Avatar
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    It is not rocket science to me, my knees honestly hurt when I got parallel and when I go deep they do not. Just think about how you have to stop midway through with just your knees to go parallel basically.
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  17. #16
    Ex-Manwhore KingWilder's Avatar
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    hmm, I've never had problems with my knees at parallel or below...(knocks on wood)
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